Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 12:37 am, by: Dominic Kelly(Drk_awd)
If you found my post too personal then I apologise. As for everything else that was said I don't believe I am over-stating my position by hearsay. I passed on information gleaned from conversations with three respected tuners. These are guys whose workshops are full of Carrera Cup Porsches, Lambos etc. and know what they are talking about. The dyno, wideband O2 meter and laptop are their tools of trade. In fact who suggested using a dyno to gather proof? Oh that's right
David Vaughan: "Why does it confirm that? Has anyone tried a dyno rather than hearsay or their own opinion to compare 98-octane fuels?"
When I pass on the opinions of three men who are dyno tuning cars all day long that somehow becomes hearsay to you. Sorry if I didn't ask them for copies of dyno graphs but I accepted what they said without demanding proof. Would you have done the same?
If you're curious here's a link to a racing fuel site where they publish results of comparisons they made between Elf 98 RON race fuel, Optimax Extreme 100 RON, BP Ultimate and Optimax. The results were in that order. These people obviously aren't neutral as they're in the business of selling Elf racing fuel. Their main goal was to prove the superiority of the Elf 98 over the new threat of a 100RON pump fuel. Still, looking at the published torque and power curves you can clearly see that Ultimate produced higher torque figures (in that particular engine) than Optimax especially between 2000 rpm and 4000 rpm. No, not double blind and not sure how well controlled the conditions were but you suggested the dyno as proof and that's as good as you get with a dyno.
You seem to think I'm pushing BP Ultimate which is rather curious as I don't actually use it in either of my cars any longer. That's despite the fact a BP is my closest service station. As it so happens I use Shell Optimax Extreme/V-Power Racing in my Soarer. I clearly stated in my earlier post that I didn't ask the tuners' opinions on other fuels such as Synergy, Vortex98 or Optimax Extreme as none of those were available in Brisbane at the time.
I have never recommended any particular fuel to anyone. In a previous thread I stated that I found my Forester GT has noticeably improved fuel economy and seems slightly more responsive when using Vortex 98 - that was not a recommendation, just an observation. In this thread I have merely passed on the opinions of people who would know - certainly more than either of us. None of them are in the business of selling fuel and have no incentive to push one brand over another. Accusing me of assisting people to waste their money is quite laughable and clearly false.
My quote of the BP chemist was purely in response to your statement: "Then there was a claim that BP Ultimate was refined to 100-101 Octane so it was 98 at the pump (no, you work out the temporal juggling). I queried that at 7.30pm last Thursday and have yet to hear a cheep of justification for the claim."
You demanded an answer so I gave it to you. I don't know who originally made that claim and please show me where I have used it to assert the superiority of Ultimate over any of the Shell products (or any others).
As for not having any data - I have an ecu with logging capability. Able to log a number of parameters at either 10 or 20 samples per second. I have used this in the past to confirm that Optimax Extreme definitely allowed the car to produce more power than Ultimate (sharper slope on the rpm vs time curve ie. revs rose more quickly).
Regardless of the fact I can log data, the main point of my previous posts was to assert that given the inability to scientifically measure changes in a car's performance it is still possible to rely on sensory perceptions especially in a vehicle you know well and travelling on roads you use every day. You can use techniques such as speed at certain marker points as a guide.
You have twisted what I've said and combined it with statements made by others to make it look like I'm some travelling BP salesman peddling snake oil.
You've also missed the point of my suggestion that you pay for an engine dyno and chose to dramatise it as a false attack. Of course I don't expect you to pay for it - the reason there isn't a lot of hard data out there is because it's very difficult and expensive to provide the evidence you seem to demand of anyone who expresses an opinion or shares their observations with others.
You're very quick to throw the burden of proof on to others but how about you provide some evidence that there is no difference at all between the 98 RON fuels when used in vehicles capable of taking advantage of the higher octane rating?
Imagine if, for example, a reader here were to purchase Optimax rather than BP or Mobil owing to your belief there is no difference at all between the fuels and suffered reduced fuel economy and lessened driveability, objectively you have most probably assisted them to waste their money.
