Soarer Central: Help me complete my Soundsystem

Soarer Central ICE - In Car Entertainment ICE Chat Help me complete my Soundsystem

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George Dertadian
Tinkerer
NSW
jzz30

Posts: 73
Reg: 04-2009

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 06:29 pm, by: George Dertadian (George_dertadian)

I will be upgrading the car audio in my soarer in the near future. I don't know a great deal about this stuff, still trying to understand how it all works.

At the moment I have a Clarion MAX 386VD head unit (in the car when I purchased it) and I just purchased a set of Rainbow SLC 230 2-way 5.25" component speakers (not installed yet). I'm not sure where I should go from here.

I'm after sound quality in my new system over loudness. I mainly listen to dance/electro/house etc, I don't mind a bit of rock as well.

I know I need an amp and a sub. What would you guys recommend? People suggest that I don't spend money on rear speakers if I'm running a sub. Is this correct?

Personally, I was thinking of a Kicker S12L7-D4 Solo-Baric L7 Series 12" sub.
http://www.ryda.com.au/Kicker-08S12L7-D4-Solo-Baric-L7-Series-12-Sub-p/s12l7d4.htm
Honestly, I don't know. I've heard Kicker make good subs. I will put my sub in a box. Which type is best for sound quality or most suited to Dance/electro/house etc. I want something decent, however I don't want to go overboard.

I need an amp to power everything. This is the area I don't really understand. I don't want to get the power ratings and the ohm's etc. Any recommendations would be great.

Below are links containing technical info regarding components I already have.

Any help/opinions would be appreciated

http://195.243.203.21/rainbow/technical.aspx?pa=1221112&lan=ENG

http://www.clarion.com/au/en/products/2009/multimedia/multimedia_source_units/MAX386VD/au-en-product -pf_1172419833216.html

David Brunt
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W.A.
Soarer TT

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 07:22 pm, by: David Brunt (Dbrun)

IM a huge fan of rockford fosgate "power" series subs. i have 2 T1 12 inch subs for sale as i didnt end up making an enclosure for them. If you're interested PM me..

Kicker sound sweet for a lot of things. decide if you want a real punchy bass or a droning bass. then choose your sub. It will depend on box style as well as size. Vented boxes usually louder but not as punchy, non-vented vice versa.

What you really want to do is line your car with Dynamat sound proofing. it makes a huge difference and you will find that with the lining you can use alot smaller speakers than people will tell you that you need. You dont want to buy a huge sub and never use it. Sound proof your car first and then worry about your speakers.

Aiden Cheese
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Soarer jzz30

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 07:32 pm, by: Aiden Cheese (Chillpen)

Does your car have a stock sub?
By "Set" do you mean 4 speakers?
You'll need probably 2 amps. One monoblock for the sub, one 4 channel for the 4 speakers. The speaker amp needs to probably do 40-50watt rms. (probably peak power per channel of like 125watt or something).

If you want to run 4 speakers here's what I'd do.

If your head unit is already correctly wired in, pull it out and run under the carpet driver side 3 RCA cables. One set for fronts, one set for rears and one set for the Sub.

On the passenger side run a 0 or 2 gauge power wire fused from the battery through the firewall down the body of the car to your boot. At the back split that 2 or 0 Gauge wire into 2 8gauge lengths for a very short run into the amplifiers.

Using a multimeter test to find a grounding point which works well on the chassis where a large bolt is. Use 8 or 4gauge wire to earth the amps to that earth point. Crimp ring terminals onto the wire and add lots of solder so they will never pull out. Bolt them down.

Run speaker wire on the same side as you ran the RCA cables down to the front and through the grommit that the rest of the car wires run through. Remove and bolt in your new speakers up front. For the left side - cross the speaker wire at 90degrees to the power wire. The way interference happens is that waves generated by electromagnetic forces "add" to existing waves in a wire (without good enough shielding). Most speaker wire isn't a twisted pair and is susceptible to interference. But by running it 90 degrees you minimise the point at which any waves will add to the interference.

The rear speakers don't need anything special. Just run wire to them, you'll get to the parcel tray from inside the cabin, there are directions to remove it. Replace the speakers in those (you may or may not have to make custom mounts for them) Wire from inside the boot. Mount the amps somehow that you find suitable.

Neaten everything put it all back together.

Hrm I qiuckly tried to MS paint how the wires would go. It didn't turn out too good

But here it is anyway:
RED is power
Black is either outline or earthing
BLUE is front speakers and wires
Brown is rear speakers and wire
GREEN is SUB
Purple is Head unit RCAs

Brian Coignet
Tinkerer
Victoria
Toyota Soarer TT

Posts: 34
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Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 08:19 pm, by: Brian Coignet (Brizal)

Depending how much bass you want. Usually house/electro/trance it's recommended to have a sealed box. If you are after sound quality, get it custom built, as a generic box will mess up all the frequencies.

In terms of sub, Rockford's do have a good name behind them, I personally am not a big fan, I prefer Alpine, so you're better off going into a store and listening to both.

With this in mind you will most likely need a decent amp to run this stuff, especially for the T1's. You should be looking around 1000W amp, but it is definitely worth it. Then you need the wiring kit (look towards 2 gauge, not 8).

In terms of speakers, the Rainbows are an awesome brand, they will give the high and mid range that you will need. I personally prefer to run speakers in the rear just to provide the extra clarity (often find that it provides a surround sound experience).

You won't need a big amp for these, but look out for an amp with frequency settings (including HPF and LPF). I would recommend getting a two channel, even if you do decide to get rears you can easily run them off the head unit.

For the two channel look for one that roughly has around 50W - 80W RMS (Jaycar stock a good series). In reference to the impedance you're splits are 4 ohm, so look for power at 4 ohms.

However I looked at the head unit you have, although very flashy, sound quality is not one the main focuses. The importance of the head unit is often under rated, however I have used pretty much every brand on all the same set-up and could hear the difference.

I would recommend Alpine or if you have the money, Eclipse.

I understand it's a lot to take on board so I think I will stop there, but should you have any questions or want more info just let me know. Hope it helped and best of luck

George Dertadian
Tinkerer
NSW
jzz30

Posts: 74
Reg: 04-2009

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 09:01 pm, by: George Dertadian (George_dertadian)

Nice diagram Aiden. Impressive posts guys.

David i'm still researching at the moment, i'll let you know if decided on T1 subs. Dynamat sound proofing; sounds interesting, i might need to look them up.

Aiden, there's no sub. However, there is a cable that looks like it would run to a sub. I have a soarer with the luxury pack; I think these came with a sub (don't know what happened to it). My SLC 230 pack are composed of 2 speakers and 2 tweeters.
Cheers for the walkthrough mate, it'll really help at installation time.

Brian, sounds like I want a sealed box. I was abit concerned about the performance of my head unit. However, I'd like to avoid spending more cash on a new head unit. Thanks for the info on the amps.

Cameron James
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NSW
Soarer GT-TL

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 09:40 pm, by: Cameron James (Dinosoarer)

Hey George, I used a sub specifically for infinite baffle (free-air) installation in my car - mounted onto 15mm MDF - the stencil is listed in the build thread http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/13208/318728.html?1276947587

I was not keen on having a box floating round in the boot so free-air was the only way to go... I listen to a wide range of music, from rock to classical, but prefer mostly electronica, so its usually Psytrance (punchy bass), Electro or Dubstep (deep bass) and this sub is versatile enough to give excellent response for all styles of music

I have also dynamatted the rear shelf and spent a few hours fixing all the rattles under low frequencies - really happy with the end result.

Rear speakers are a must for a nice clear surround-stereo image - mine sounds crappy with just the fronts playing - the rears really complete the sound.

You will need to get clued in on details on the resistance and wattage of all the gear you want to buy - they speakers must always have more capacity than the amps or you will fry them - the only other way is to have someone design the system for you.

As for going overboard, my system is relatively simple compared to some others ive seen but the clarity is phenomenal - it thumps just the way I like it and it only cost a smidge over over $700 (minus the head unit)

Aiden Cheese
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Soarer jzz30

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 01:56 am, by: Aiden Cheese (Chillpen)

I'd follow Cameron's post and make up a sub mount and mount a free air sub too. They sound not bad and save a LOT of space. I mean a real lot of space. I mounted my amps where the old CD stacker was using MDF and aluminium from bunnings. I suggest this too. Mine don't seem to run too hot, so its alright I think.

This leaves the whole installation looking EXACTLY like stock, sounds wonderful, gives full boot use for spare tyre or groceries.

I prefer everything to come together like it was designed that way. I'm a huge fan of subtlty. That is: if someone comes in to the car without an idea of what to expect they will be impressed by everything. I keep the car clean (vacuumed and washed) the insides I do my best to maintain without cracks and replace things like bled LCD screens.

In fact I'm currently trying to fabricate a new little MDF spacer to better suit how the head unit should sit over the top of the gauge cluster in my centre console. I want my single din to sit more flush and that requires adding about 2mm more space for it vertically.

There's nothing more impressive than when someone who has no idea about what to expect when they get into a clean car, to be surprised about how advanced it is. Most people who get in my car are shocked by the digital speedo, flip up LCD, smooth suspension, strong acceleration, sunroof and power doors. It's really a pretty good first impression.

Warren Moore
TryHard
Victoria
MiGoreng JZZ31 @ 999rwkw

Posts: 422
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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 02:30 am, by: Warren Moore (Warreng)

I have some stuff for sale if you are interested..

jcv avx626 7" touch headunit
focal 165V1 6.5" splits
focal 165CVX 6.5" coaxials
focal Solid 4 amp
kicker VS12L72 L7 2x12" subs
kicker zx1500.1 mono block

Brian Coignet
Tinkerer
Victoria
Toyota Soarer TT

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 10:32 am, by: Brian Coignet (Brizal)

I have to say Cameron's method is very sleek and might be just the right amount of bass you are looking for.

I'm not sure if Cameron used the stock wires in the car, which you are planning to use, I would usually look at changing these.

In regards to the head unit I say sell it off and get a single din, and still have a bit of money left to spend after. Like possible on an amp (the Focal amp Warren has for sale is known for sound quality) and rear speakers.

Cameron James
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NSW
Soarer GT-TL

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 11:36 am, by: Cameron James (Dinosoarer)

The speaker wires amp#1 are spliced into the factory loom - the wires from the stock amp to speakers is a decent gauge and quality IMO. Wires from amp#2 to the sub are fat. Both amps are powered & earthed by 4G cables - crimped and soldered

Aiden Cheese
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Soarer jzz30

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 12:09 pm, by: Aiden Cheese (Chillpen)

Brian Coignet wrote on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 10:32 am:

I'm not sure if Cameron used the stock wires in the car, which you are planning to use, I would usually look at changing these.

I agree, leaving all the stock wiring totally in tact and removing it from your audio is pretty much good advice.

Not just should you get better quality with running speaker wire that isn't 20 years old, but also you can revert back to your stock setup with a few clicks if you do it right. I know I can throw in my head unit at any stage and plug back in the old stock amps and cd stacker, change the plugs in the doors and parcel shelf and i have the old speaker system back exactly as i bought it.

If you haven't already installed the head unit - I'd use an ISO cable. Basically find any car like ford to ISO or toyota to ISO, cut off the toyota bit or the ford bit and leave the iso connector. Strip your wires from the car (constant 12v, accessory, dimmer and earth) and solder that onto them, heatshrink up the soldered join and buy a clarion to ISO cable. Click in the clarion cable to the iso cable, click in the head unit into the cable.

The benefit of this is when you go to sell the car, and you want to reuse the head unit on the next car, pull out the 1000 dollar clarion head unit, and put in a cheap 100 dollar pioneer head unit instead. Buy a pioneer to iso cable and swap it over in seconds. It's worked in the past for me, when I've had to replace head units that have either died or swapped them out between cars. It also looks much neater.

Just remembered i had a picture of my wiring before it went into the car. I had wrapped most of the speaker wire/RCA cables in conduit to basically keep them together..

Before it went into the car I actually re-ran that purple speaker wire on the left to run inside where the rest of the RCA cables etc was running and then just ran it behind the dash and under the floor mat so it crossed the power cable only once. I found that to be much neater in the end.

Thats just the amp and head unit i'd pulled from the charade and there was another amp for the sub that isn't pictured.

Cameron James
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer GT-TL

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 12:39 pm, by: Cameron James (Dinosoarer)

Hmmm - the stock speaker wiring has at least 3 times the thickness (in both wire and insulation) compared to the pissy little cables supplied with the speakers and I did not see any signs of corrosion or breakdown in the wiring that I stripped and soldered - sure I could have used that nice speaker cable from Jaycar but when you are running 15 metres around the car it gets more complicated and more costly... plus I didn't fancy trying to push more cables through the 19 year old rubber door conduits

I agree with leaving the stock wiring intact though for reverting back to std Aiden and the ISO connecter idea is a good one!

Nathan Oates
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SA
TT

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 05:12 pm, by: Nathan Oates (Oatsey_no1)

If your after good quality audio and you plan on running amps your best bet would be to get rid of the clarion head unit i had one of those in my soarer and i upgraded to an alpine tv unit.
its only 1 volt difference in pre-out power but it makes a massive difference in audio out put quality.

Warren Moore
TryHard
Victoria
MiGoreng JZZ31 @ 999rwkw

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 08:29 pm, by: Warren Moore (Warreng)

"its only 1 volt difference in pre-out power but it makes a massive difference in audio out put quality."

what voltage are you referring to? i want to see what voltage my jvc is on the box

Chris Lock
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V8 Limited

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Monday, June 21, 2010 - 07:08 pm, by: Chris Lock (Sledge)

Aiden Cheese wrote on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 12:09 pm:
If you haven't already installed the head unit - I'd use an ISO cable. Basically find any car like ford to ISO or toyota to ISO, cut off the toyota bit or the ford bit and leave the iso connector. Strip your wires from the car (constant 12v, accessory, dimmer and earth) and solder that onto them, heatshrink up the soldered join and buy a clarion to ISO cable. Click in the clarion cable to the iso cable, click in the head unit into the cable.

The benefit of this is when you go to sell the car, and you want to reuse the head unit on the next car, pull out the 1000 dollar clarion head unit, and put in a cheap 100 dollar pioneer head unit instead. Buy a pioneer to iso cable and swap it over in seconds. It's worked in the past for me, when I've had to replace head units that have either died or swapped them out between cars. It also looks much neater.

Where do you get these 'ISO' connectors?