Soarer Central: Replacing bushes

Soarer Central Suspension Replacing bushes

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Ben Folkes
TryHard
NSW & VIC
v8

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Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, September 19, 2005 - 10:57 pm, by: Ben Folkes (Ben05)

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Ive read all the threads on replacing the bushes with those from VFT. Im going to replace all the bushes, but as funds allow..so what do you guys recommend to do first? I will do the steering bushes first, but what order after that? cheers

Dan McColl
TryHard
Victoria
UZZ32 V8 Soarer #183

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Monday, September 19, 2005 - 11:28 pm, by: Dan McColl (Hoon)

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Generally, it seems, the first to go are the front lower control arms. After that I don't think that it matters much, though my rear uppers were rooted.

Roger Costello
TryHard
WA
UZZ31 V8 Limited

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 12:31 am, by: Roger Costello (Roger)

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Ben

After the steering rack, I would do the front lowers and the roll bar bushes. The difference in handling after replacing tired roll bar bushes is major. They should cost less than $100 for the four, use rubber grease when fitting them. The genuine Toyota ones are the way to go normally unless you want a lot more NVH than you have now. The rear uppers after that, then the rear lowers and finally the front uppers. The order varies from car to car depending on how it was driven, tires etc. The front lowers and roll bar bushes usually seem to be the first to get tired.

Roger

Ben Folkes
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v8

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 09:34 am, by: Ben Folkes (Ben05)

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Thanks for the explanation. When you say roll bar bushes, are you referring to the sway bars? Im planning on putting the adjustable whiteline swaybars on, do they usually come with all the bushes needed? Also, what is NVH? thanks..

Nick Bentley
Newbie
NSW
jzz30tt

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 10:07 am, by: Nick Bentley (Crazymax)

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dont want to hijack ur post but what sort of price would i be looking at when replacing the front lower control arm bushes on my soarer?

Roger Costello
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WA
UZZ31 V8 Limited

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 02:08 pm, by: Roger Costello (Roger)

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Ben,
Yes, Sway Bar = Roll Bar. Sorry about the confusion. I would try doing all the bushes first before getting the Whitelines (which do come with all the fittings). They are good, the main advantage they give is the ability to dial in understeer or oversteer on the track. The stock roll bars are not shabby, with new bushes you may find they don't need replacing. There are lots of compromises in choosing the balance between performance on a track and on road ride and handling. The V8 is a very fast comfortable tourer and while it can be set up for racing that was not what it was designed for. Not to say it can't or shouldn't be done but they are a lot of fun on the road stock as a rock with new suspension rubber and shock absorbers. NVH is just an acronym for Noise Vibration Harshness used in the car industry.

Nick, expect change out of $600 for bushes, fitting and an alignment.

Roger

Freeman Tang
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Vic
JZZ30 GT-TL

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Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 12:32 am, by: Freeman Tang (Cobra_man)

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Nick, if thats too dear, try Nolothane ones. For front lower bushes, u need 2 X 45464 and 2 x 45465 Nolathane bush packs. About $85 each pack, Labour will be around $300, front alignment should be $55-75.

Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

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Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 01:20 am, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

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It has been well documented on SC, ALSC, TIF and CL, that the plastic variety bushes provide increased NVH (Noise, Vibration and Harshness) compared to rubber, they also need to be periodically repacked with lubricant to stop them from squeaking.

I was also talking to local Pedders manager about all this stuff last week. He mentioned that the company had come close to buying out a plastic bush maker so they could get bushes made to their own softer spec than what was already available. As it was, they eventually got the manufacturer to move to a softer spec so Pedders were happy. However, he then went on to say that there are some situations where a plastic bush will never really be a suitable replacement for proper rubber ones, and LCA bushes should always be rubber.

Next.

There are 2 main differences. Rubber is more pliant than plastic variants which get harder faster as they are compressed.

The rubber bush also relies on the characteristics of the rubber to provide torsional resistance as the outer surface and inner surface are affectively attached to the bearing housing and move with them, leaving the rubber in the middle to be twisted as the joint pivots. Plastic bushes simply fill the hole and provide a bit of give, but no torsional resistance as the bush simply pivots inside the housing. This is also why they need to be packed with grease, and why they then start to squeak and need to be repacked.

Great for go-karts maybe, but not for a Soarer.

:-)

Roger Costello
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WA
UZZ31 V8 Limited

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Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 02:26 am, by: Roger Costello (Roger)

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Freeman

edit: aarrgghh - Peter you beat me to it, and expained it better! (for the chronologically aware our post times provide an indication of how long it takes for me to write a few lines)

Hi, 300+85+85+75=$525? Not trying to have a go at you but I am confused as to how at those prices this is a worthwhile option for Nick. VFT Front LCA Bushes inc. GST and freight are $366, fitting and alignment fixed quote was $200 for a total of $566.

In Perth a full set of urethane Soarer front LCA Bushes sells for about $35-$45 wholesale, fitting is as little as $120 to the trade. At those prices, to get something fixed up to sell I can understand why car yards and importers do it. The buyer is almost never aware there is even another option. They are just told it has new bushes.

Fitting all sixteen Front and Rear Upper and Lower VFT bushes and the 4 Toyota Roll/Sway Bar bushes plus a full front and rear alignment cost me $465 with GST retail. That included tightening all the cross-member bolts and some other ones that needed re-torquing. That was at what in many peoples opinion is the best suspension workshop in Perth.

I've talked to Soarer owners who have told me Nolothane etc. was fine, usually they were not aware of the VFT option or wanted to save money. Then they drive a car with VFT bushes and change their minds. People on this forum are not spending money on VFT products because they have cash to burn. New complete Lower Control Arms cost too much, Nolothane/urethane and similar products at best in this application give a harsher ride and at worst moan like a bus load of cheerleaders as well. If you can, I would do it once and do it properly.

Nick and Ben, while I am having a foaming at the mouth rant, replace your PCV valves and use 90915-2004 oil filters as well.

Roger

Ben Folkes
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NSW & VIC
v8

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Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 11:47 am, by: Ben Folkes (Ben05)

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Thanks again for the detailed explanation. Im only going to do this once, so I want to get it right. Looks as if VFT is the go. Doing the work is not a problem, as mechanic friends always come in handy. Ill change filters in a few thousand km's, and i dont know what the pcv valve is but ill do a search and find out..cheers

Shane Ilich
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W.A.
TT

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Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:12 pm, by: Shane Ilich (Ferret)

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Roger Costello wrote on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 02:26 am:
Fitting all sixteen Front and Rear Upper and Lower VFT bushes and the 4 Toyota Roll/Sway Bar bushes plus a full front and rear alignment cost me $465 with GST retail. That included tightening all the cross-member bolts and some other ones that needed re-torquing. That was at what in many peoples opinion is the best suspension workshop in Perth.

roger - i'm assuming this was at wilkinsons precise?

anyways, did they order in the vlamos bushes for you, or did you supply them? and roughly how long ago was this job done for this price? (ie roughly how much is this likely to cost me in the next few weeks?)

Gary Redman
Newbie
NSW
UZZ31

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Friday, September 30, 2005 - 01:36 pm, by: Gary Redman (Gary)

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Anyone with a V8 would be crazy to fit nolathane bushes. Vlamos is the only way to go if you value the comfortable ride offered by the V8s, especially air bag models.

Graham Dollisson
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QLD
GT-TL

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Friday, September 30, 2005 - 01:53 pm, by: Graham Dollisson (Alloyvee)

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Roger, forget the bushes....I want the bus load of moaning cheerleaders.

Roger Costello
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WA
UZZ31 V8 Limited

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Friday, September 30, 2005 - 05:18 pm, by: Roger Costello (Roger)

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Shane,

The bushes were fitted in March this year. I purchased them from VFT and supplied all the parts including the Toyota roll/sway bar bushes to Wilkinsons Suspension in Bayswater. The Job took about eight hours including alignment. I would ask for a quote but the price should still be about the same as I paid. They already have the tool for fitting the rear uppers. It takes about five days for the bushes to get to Perth from Qld. Keep in mind you need to book ahead a week or so.

Wilkinsons can also fit the VFT steering rack bushes for you at the same time, I'd guess about $30-$40 extra. Probably a good idea before the alignment. The large rack grommet should be changed at the same time, it's about $50 from Toyota. If anybody reading this has an UZZ32 the steering rack bushes will cost considerably more to change because of the many extra bits to be removed and refitted.

Roger

Shane Sartori
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wa
TT

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Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 12:51 am, by: Shane Sartori (Kingmoron)

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i know this is a grave dig, but.... whats this large rack grommet? i have a jzz30 what part number is it?

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
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Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 09:20 am, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

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Steering Rack Grommet . Any Toyota will have em, no more than $50-$60.

Shane Sartori
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wa
TT

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Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 01:37 pm, by: Shane Sartori (Kingmoron)

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