Last x Days Posts  1 | 3 | 7 Days  Search  Topics  Tree View  Help
  Soarer Central * General Soarer Chat * Might be forced to sell the Soarer Previous Previous    Next Next  

Author Message
Aaron Johnstone
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 Limited

Posts: 76
Reg: 10-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:32 pm, by:  Aaron Johnstone (Johnstone) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well in wake of new P plater and young driver legislation to be brought out by the Queensland Government it appears I may be forced to sell my car as it is a "high performance car." Such a shame because I havent had this car long and it is such a good car! I might look at a non turbo inline 6 Soarer but we will see wat will happen. What other non turbo sports cars are around? I was looking at early Honda Prelude or Mitsubishi FTO somethin like that. Any suggestions would be great
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1971
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:09 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aaron
Mate don't panic.
so long as your car is in your name before the cut off date the government (police)can't stop you from driving it NOR take it off you.
BUT if all else fails i have a none turbo VVTi 98 model soarer here for sale
But really mate just wait and see what transpires on the date.
Aaron Johnstone
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 Limited

Posts: 77
Reg: 10-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:16 pm, by:  Aaron Johnstone (Johnstone) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lew but wouldnt it be if the car wasnt in my name before the cut off date?
Shaun Stephenson
TryHard
Vic
Jzz30 TT & ST162

Posts: 345
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:27 pm, by:  Shaun Stephenson (Neonasty) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what Ive read thats correct. Be sure to have the car in your name before the new laws come into play. Thus they cant stop you.

You wont be allowed to register it in your name after the laws come in.
Piers McDonald
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer JZZ30 TT-L

Posts: 36
Reg: 08-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:03 pm, by:  Piers McDonald (Drp) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For at least 2 years now in NSW, you've not been able to drive V8s or force fed cars on P plates.
Yet I see Soarers, Skylines, 180SXs etc with P plates all the time.
I don't think the law gets enforced.
Aaron Johnstone
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 Limited

Posts: 78
Reg: 10-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:03 pm, by:  Aaron Johnstone (Johnstone) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahh okay then... best thing is to wait I reckon, I have asked Queensland Transport about this and what it all means and even though the implementation is in just over a month they still have no idea themselves, that goes for driving instructors as well. Apparently all new learner books and log books and all that havent even been designed yet.
Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT) / 97 JZA80 (TT)

Posts: 1804
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:27 pm, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Piers: Skylines, 180SXs, S14s, Soarers, Supras all came with in non-turbo form so they could be legit. Would hate to be them though as they would probably get pulled over every 2 minutes.

Also, the NSW rules state that if you obtained your licence before the new rules came in, you would be eligible to drive a turbocharged car. If you received your licence after that particular date (31st July 2005 I think?) they would have been unable to drive a turbo car.

Hell, a 19 year old kid just purchased my TT Supra off me and he is legally allowed to drive high powered vehicles. Not everyone was slack on getting their licence on time.


As for the original question of this thread:

After a quick read of the official PDF from QLD Transport it states:

Will all provisional licence holders be required to undergo P1 and P2 stages?
These changes will only apply to persons who are issued with a provisional licence from 1 July 2007.


And another portion from the PDF:
What if I obtain my provisional licence before the changes are implemented?
If you already hold a valid provisional licence before the changes are implemented the high powered vehicle restriction will not apply to you.


You can find the link to this PDF document from
here

Looks like you are in the clear Aaron :-)
Aaron Johnstone
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 Limited

Posts: 79
Reg: 10-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 07:22 pm, by:  Aaron Johnstone (Johnstone) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OHHHHH I love you Vinh!!! haha ill have a good read of that, relieves me quite a bit now!
Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT) / 97 JZA80 (TT)

Posts: 1805
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:49 pm, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No worries mate. Just don't believe all the crap that comes out of peoples mouths. Make a print out of that PDF if you have to, and show it to any coppers that give you flak once those new laws come in.
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1972
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 07:46 am, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aaron
there is a lot of crap flying around the industry in Queensland as well
no body can be sure of what is exactly going to happen
some say PERFORMANCE cars
so what is a performance car?
the soarer is a luxury car not a performance car
the supra is the performance side of
toyota

the way some people up here are thinking is
turbo and V8 is taboo for "P" platers
but what is stopping them from driving a porsche
it is neither V8 or turboed
I will try and find out what is stated Because what ever happens it is going to hurt my business big time could even shut it down
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7790
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 07:49 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lew, that's not good. Are most of your clients for hot-up stuff on their "P" plates?
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1973
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 08:48 am, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pete.
Yer the way thay are going to do it is
while the young guys are on a probationary licence.
queensland had dropped the idea of displaying "P" plates a while back
But thay still were on a probationary licence for 3 years (the same as victoria)
so there for the guys going for there licence now will not be able to get a V8 or turbo car until thay are 21years old
That in its self is a bloody good idea for there mums and dads
but will kill the performance industry.
when it all boils down to it the young guys up here are all killing them selves in skylines 75% of the accidents causing deaths are skylines.
Nissan just don't have the the strength in them like the soarers have.

Pete i would say it would be 50/50 to what is made and done for the under 21yrs to the guys over 21yrs
The banks up here have made life so easy for young guys to get finance for performance cars and mods to those cars.so it will snow ball along through all industries relating to the automotive industry so we have to think about alternative ways to get around this problem.
i will be trying to focus on the older generation and the family man that wants a sporty car but still family orientated.
and also the die hard race side of things for the people that have had the family and are now wanting to get back what thay missed out on when there children arrived.hehehehehee
Yep i know what that was like..
It would be a shame to let all this go as it is some thing that is close to my heart as i would have to be one of the biggest kids around any way
It started of as a passion for the soarer cars about 6 yrs ago now
and has got me to were i want to be.
Working on performance cars and specialising in the soarers and still being able to play with my own projects
Live doesn't get better than that.........
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7792
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:11 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Though it may not be as bad as that. It could mean that there are more of them live to be 21, and with the extra year or three under their belt, they may decide to get a Soarer instead of a Skyline.

Will the non turbo 6 be OK?
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1974
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 02:19 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will the non turbo 6 be OK?
Pete i think it will be it just depends on what thay determine as a performance/luxury car.
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 3015
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 02:21 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats bull****. I'm not even 20 and im pretty sensible... aren't i? >.>
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1975
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 02:37 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Callum
yer mate you may be a sensible sort of guy But up here in Queensland there would be 1 or even 2 hit the news papers every saturday.
and as i said above thay are nissans
not saying you can't kill ya self in a soarer
but the chassis is very strong under the soarers
i have cut a car up just to see what is actually in there and mate the amount of steel in the chassis alone will crap over any other mono shell chassis i have seen
the mono bit is were the chassis is part of the structure under the car
compared to ute and 4wd chassis
Aaron Johnstone
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 Limited

Posts: 80
Reg: 10-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 05:11 pm, by:  Aaron Johnstone (Johnstone) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The non turbo 6 Soarer should be fine, what I have seen in the past 2 days it stops cars that are super charged, turbo charged, 8 cylinders or more and cars that are higher in engine performance than 200kw. Also as Lew was saying it does have the potential to kill the performance market as even though you have a non turbo 6 or 4, all performance modifications that are not standard of the manufacturer are illegal as well.
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 3017
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 06:18 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahh fair enough Lew.
I was posting on the more sarcastic side also. Didnt mean for any malice to come through! ;D
Brian Timms
TryHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 346
Reg: 12-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 07:14 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the P-plater rules, get your car registered in your name (or at least on the registration as part owner) and you wont have to worry about the restrictions when they come into effect.

The reason there are heaps of P-platers still driving these cars is because they all had the cars BEFORE they the restrictions.

Some Sydney P-platers had cars such as 180sx, skylines, etc when on Learners, therefore owned them prior to the P-plater restrictions, and therefore exempt from them.

Give it 2 more years, and you will see a MASSIVE attack on P-plater import restrictions.

B.
Jeff Wilkins
TryHard
South Australia
JZZ30 GT-TL

Posts: 399
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 09:26 pm, by:  Jeff Wilkins (Calin) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, get all of the P-platers driving 'safe-as-houses' VN commodores. Thats what I say.


...errr

hang on, they still do the better part of 200 klicks, have the worst suspension setup known to man, have the chassis strength of a donut. hmmmm.


Typical bloody knee-jerk fix offered by wanker politians out of touch with reality.

Dont actually make REAL driver training a part of getting ones license, no that would make sense!

Dickheads!
Brian Timms
TryHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 347
Reg: 12-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:40 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I liked when they first introduced theblanket banning of Turbo and High powered (V8 and higher) vehicles for P-platers.

They did a simp[le blanket ban of any car with a turbocharger, supercharger, or 8 cylinder and higher engine.

This ban included such cars as:

Smart 2 X 4 and 4 x 4.
All the Kompressor Mercerdes
Turbo Volvos
Turbo Saab
the 3 cylinder Suzuki Cappacino
3 Cylinder GTI Charade
(the list could go on)

What I found amazing was I had a Nissan 180sx at the time, 1200kgs and 120kw at the rubber.

This was a banned motorvhehicle for P-plater drivers, it was a 1.8 litre (listed on NS RTA list of prohibited vehicles).

Straight under was the CA powered 1.8 litre K's turbo Silvia, then off to some other model Nissan.

They never listed the more popular SR20 powered 180sx or Silvia, which where released within a year of the CA powered 180sx/silvia (the only thing that stopped someone buying an SR powered 2 litre (not listed) over a 1.8 CA Powered 1.8 liter was the clause at the bottom "All other forced induction and v8 or higher vehicles not listed or otherwised mentioned as exempt".

What also was annoying, was the initial ban only included Turbo, supercharged, V8 or higher, and aftermarket modified vehicles.

So someone could go and buy something like a Nissan 350Z which was V6 N/A, but couldn't buy a lesser powered imported 180sx, due to the 180sx having a turbo on the engine.

Likewise, someone couldn't buy a Smart car, because they are turbo-assisted (4psi cant be classed as 'turbo powered), but could by a Commodore VS, VR, VCT, etc.

In my book, the Smart car would have been the far safer option.


Then comes the really funny bit, my first car was a Mazda 323 1.5 litre carby powered 1981 model 5 door hatch. In the car I was able to start burnouts on new tires, and finish on rims only, was able to see 170km/h in 5th gear, and out of desperation to go faster went back to 4th to get more torque, and found top speed of 175km/h in 4th.

In this completely factory released car, I had original suspension, steering, wheels, original spec tires, brakes, etc.

When I saw anything over 140km/h, the car would RAISE giving me less traction, no hope of braking, and very wobbly steering, yet I was still stupid enough at the time to keep pushing the car, and after almost 120 seconds, I saw top speed.

Now days, I have a turbocharged Soarer, it has air bags, abs, TEMS controlled suspension, power steering, power assisted brakes (thaty can lift the arse of the car without locking up if I push hard enough), and a chassis that could rip through a building.

Now the RTA deemed me driving my 323 a 'safer option for a P-plater' than me driving my Soarer GT.

Problem: Soarer out brakes the 323 from top speed to 0 km/h.

Soarer does not feel uinsteady at 180km/h, the 323 is skatting at 140km/h

Soarer speed limits at 180km/h (unmodified)
323 speed limits at 175km/h (runs out of power)

Soarer has speed controlled power assist steering
323 sort of skates in a straight-ish line at high speed, but otherwise it's guess work.

Admittedly, the Soarer gets to 180km/h within 20 seconds, where as the 323 takes another minute+ to get up there.

The RTA never looked at the entire picture when setting up the Turbo/High performance bannings.

All the RTA did when looking at the picture was see the camel-toe in the picture and concentrate on that.

What they should have done was see and take note of the camel-toe, but then see it's attached to a 200kg whale, and dis-regard the entire picture as 'bad taste'.

RTA wont learn, it's another cock-up from the government.

On an alternative note, the government has released exemptions for families that can prove that they cant afford a 2nd car, and have a banned car as their only family car, therefore only allowing the P-plater to use the banned family car to build on experience.

This is the exemption I have used for my fiance who is currently learning to drive in my TT Soarer, but will eventually go onto P-plates with that said car as the ONLY car we can afford.

B.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7808
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:54 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:40 pm:

All the RTA did when looking at the picture was see the camel-toe in the picture and concentrate on that.


You make the point well! :-)
Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT) / 97 JZA80 (TT)

Posts: 1809
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 02:22 am, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:40 pm:

So someone could go and buy something like a Nissan 350Z which was V6 N/A, but couldn't buy a lesser powered imported 180sx, due to the 180sx having a turbo on the engine.




No. If you look on the RTA website, you'll see that the 350Z is also banned for P platers. Along with every Porsche made, the Honda NSX, BMW M3's, and Mercedes SLK350s.

The rule also states NO high powered 6 cylinders.

I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that P platers are being forced to drive cars of a lower quality. But at the end of the day, if you give a little dipshit who just got his licence something with 4 wheels, you can almost guarantee that he's going to do something stupid like speed or do burnouts.

In a way, it's a good and bad thing. I only ever see people who are effected by the new rules complaining though. Most of the people that it doesn't effect seem to have no issues with them.

I would certainly be pissed off if I was not allowed to drive a TT/V8 Soarer. But that's only because I know what I'm missing out on. You give one of these cars to an inexperienced dipshit who is only out to impress his friends, then there is a higher chance of him doing something he will regret.
Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT) / 97 JZA80 (TT)

Posts: 1810
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 02:25 am, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:40 pm:

Likewise, someone couldn't buy a Smart car, because they are turbo-assisted (4psi cant be classed as 'turbo powered)




Also; all Smart models, diesel powered vehicles, and those pissy little Suzuki Cappuccino Turbos are exempted from these laws. You really should do some research mate ;)

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/p1p2_conditions_dl1.html
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1976
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 07:00 am, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

***********QUEENSLAND GUYS I FOUND IT***************


http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb90f00bad27105/Provisional_fact_sheet_mar07.pdf


The way i read this if you read all of the article is if you can obtain a heavy truck licence you can disregard the restrictions.

BUT any thing over 200Kw is a no no if on a "P" plate licence.

Also if you have a "P" plate licence before 1/7/07 and own a car above 200kw you can also disregard the restrictions.
Brian Timms
TryHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 350
Reg: 12-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 06:12 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Vinh Bui wrote on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 02:25 am:

Also; all Smart models, diesel powered vehicles, and those pissy little Suzuki Cappuccino Turbos are exempted from these laws. You really should do some research mate ;)




Guys, please RE-read my post again, and again and again until you see where it says "Originally, the rules where......".

If you look at it now, Deisel Turbo, Smart cars, the Mercedes KC-series Kompressor range, etc are now on exemption lists, but whent he laws first came out, all of the above mentioned cars where NOT exempt, and where BANNED from P-plater drivers.

When NSW first introducted (Read again: FIRST, INITIALLY, THE INTRODUCTION OF) the P-plater restriction campaign, it had no turbocharged vehicles on an exemption, even the worlds safest vehicles where banned because they where fitted with turbochargers.

When the revised banned list was introduced (Read again: REVISED, RE-RELEASE, UPDATED) there where exemptions for the lesser powerful deisel turbocharged vehicles, and also the safety designed vehicles fitted with Turbos like Smart car, etc.

I have dont plenty of research on this matter, read many of the RTA's whitepaper 'studies', and argued with ministers about the issue.

I have even spoken directly with the Minister for public safety on this issue, and we both agreed at the time that the p-plater restrictions (note, the initial list that was released) was unresearched, and stopped many safe cars from being driven.

B.
Brian Timms
TryHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 351
Reg: 12-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 06:19 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, looking at the NS exemption list as it sits now, "all deisel powered vehicles are exempt.

This means I can get a VW GTI direct injection turbo deisel on my P1 licence, but cant drive a Soarer Limited.

The GTI will leave the V8 Soarer looking like it's trying to take off in 2nd gear, but this is fine to drive on a P1 level licence.

Again, the RTA has not looked at the entire picture.

My thoughts on how restrictions should work is that P-platers should not be able to drive vehicles with motifications unless they apply for an exemption, and then their licence should show the exepmtion.

Vehicles should be limited by power to weight ratio, not by overall engine size and/or capacity.

P-plater owned vehicles should be inspected ever 12 months over the pits, where they check for everything from obvious modifications, to things like ECU upgrades/replacements (Note again, that vehicles owned or driven by P-platers should be stock, or the modifications listed).

I have nothing against P-platers, and it was not that long ago I was a P-plater, but I agree they need to be limited somewhat.

What could also be done is speed limit P-plater vehicles to 130km/h (I know it's way above their 80 or 90km/h imposed licence limit, but if they need to get the extra power quickly to make an overtaking maneouver safe, then at least give them that much power).

Speed limiting wont stop a P-plater speeding through a 40 zone, but it will stop the reports we see at the moment of "P-plater caught doing 176 in an 80 zone..." etc.

I did suggest to the Minister for safety, that a suggestion for car manufacturers on a global scale could be that licences all have the standard features that NSW licences have, a credit card sized licence (standard size), features licence number in bottom left, RTA card number in top right, signature/photo/address all under holographic image to stop photocopying, magnetic strip on the licence for the purposes of data storage/holding.

Now, we could get a system set up where you get your learners and it restricts you to 70km/h max speed. RTA sets this restriction on the licence's magnetic strip.

Car manufacturers have a new car starting system, where it requires you to insert said licence into car to start the vehicle, without this, car is dead, wont turn over.

Once licence is iserted, it's read, the level of driver ability is read fromt he magnetic strip, the driver's name is read, and both are logged ont he on-board datalogging system for future requirements, and the car is then configured to the driver's licence level.

If Driver is a Learner, the limits the car to 80 clicks max speed, limits the engine power:weight to counter for experience, and the car is ready for the learner.

If they are P-platers, then it registers this as well, and sets the car up in accordance with this.

Car will not require the licence to stay in the car, but if the engine is shut down, you need to re-insert the licence again to activate the computer.

Yes, this could be over-ridden by me on my learners getting my friend's open unrestricted licence and using this to fire up the car to drive him home because he is drunk, but if I was to be pulled over, the police would have the software to poll the car's Rom, get the driver licence name and number used at the time to fire it up, and then when they nask me for my licence, if the names dont match, they can charge me for the lew law of driving a vehicle not to licence restrictions.

In doing this, anyone could drive any vehicle, because the ECU on that vehicle would limit the power to weight ratio to an agreed value to that driver, so every car would be as punchy and powerful as the next, turbocharged or not.

I passed this thought and a 480 page draft of my idea to the goverment heads leading the fight for Driver and road safety, and they have taken this draft, made a few minor adjustments, and passed it to their superiors, and it's in the process of viability, and if it was to go ahead, would see a massive revolution in the way car engine management would work.

You would still have the modifications, and ways around the system, but again, if the police offive cant poll the car's Rom for the licence used to start it, it's a dead give-away that the vehicle is modified in a way to bypass laws, and if a restricted driver is behind the wheel at the time, he/she is screwed.

B.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7817
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 01:43 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 06:19 pm:

a 480 page draft of my idea


Wow, that is very impressive, you obviously take this issue very seriously and have done a LOT of research.

The only issue that I can see, is that it would take many years for this to be effective unless retrofitting these ECU systems, as most P-platers all start with second hand cars.

In the meantime, I would agree that power to weight ratio would be the better guideline, but even then, any car can be driven unsafely for the conditions at the time. :-(
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 2637
Reg: 10-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 08:01 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like more big brother police state stuff to me. I agree its a problem, but adding expensive, hackable, trickable gadgets to cars is not going to solve a thing - first of all how many P platers do you see driving new cars? It'd take at least 5 or 6 years for such a system to trickle down to your average young hoon, until then its just the older, responsible drivers who have to foot the bill for the new technology, which is wasted on them. Then when it does get to the law breakers, it'll be old outdated tech thats easy to bypass, and if you are going to drive at 180kmh in a 80 zone, you aren't going to be worrying about getting caught using an illegal licence.
Brian Timms
TryHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 356
Reg: 12-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:59 am, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The people I spoke to said "If you want to suggest a problem, why dont you offer some sort of solution as well, and we might listen to you".

So I offered a comprehensive 20 yr plan.

Obviously, you cant retro-fit current cars with a licence reading and memorising ECU, because it will be very simple to just go to a wreckers and order the old ECU back, and over-right the new ECU, or also use an aftermarket system.

But if cars where to come standard with this setup, then over a 20 yr period as the older cars get written off, wrecked, sold or put out to green pastures, then you would have the newer computer controlled ECU's in place.

It wont stop aftermaket mods, or hacking, but then speed limits that are put in now have this same issue (take the 108km/h cruise control limit on my 91 TT Soarer, it was removed with a 15 minute removal, solder, and re-install of the speed controller box (limit hacked).

You wont stop mods, you wont stop kids trying to do more than the car is capable (or allowed) to do, but you can make it harder, which will stop the lamer kids.

Personaly, and I know this might sound harsh, but high powered cars and inexperienced drivers is a form or population control.

If your not smart enough to drive the car responsibly, then your gene pool should be removed, hopefully before you pro-create and pass down dumb genes.

It's a form of Darwinism, and the government is trying to keep everyone alive.

B.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 2642
Reg: 10-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 06:37 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:59 am:

which will stop the lamer kids.




Haha, thats gold!

I'd not shed a tear for some "lame" kid who stacked himself into a lamp post either, the real problem is they so often kill other people and survive themselves, and I guess thats a big part of why the government is so interested in it.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7836
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 08:36 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sometimes too, it's just plain inexperience or lack of maintenance on an older car (tyres etc), rather than an intent to hoon that gets the kids into trouble.

Until there are mandatory driver training courses, kids and others will still get into trouble when they don't realise just what can happen if they hit a wet patch on the road without being ready for it.
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1978
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 09:30 am, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brian
what a great idea mate
pete;
yes mate totaly agree with you on that issue as well.
thay all need to have done a defensive driving cause before getting there "P" plates.
just so thay do know some thing about what happens when thay come across that dredded wet patch.
most of use do know we tread with caution or just move aside until it dries.hehehehe
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7839
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 09:44 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or go and find a clean dry patch! :-)
Brian Timms
TryHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 358
Reg: 12-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 11:42 am, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I faced the same issues this weekend.

Went to Old Pac highway for a nice evening drive on Saturday night with the old friends fromt he Silvia club.

Anyway, a friend in his Mazda 3 decided to join us for a run, and I told him the Silvia guys might be pushing the limits a little, and not to try and keep up, the guys will slow for him to catch up anyway, we wont leave him behind.

For those that know the Old Pac highway, they will know it's a 50km run through nice twisty roads from Hornsby in sydney's north to Gosford, on the central coast.

Anyway, I took off with some of the Silvia guys, and sat on 85 - 90km/h with them most of the way (80km/h zone), got to the end and there was only 4 of us.

The others finally caught up, and told us there was a stack.

The Mazda tried to overtake one of the guys around a corner, on the wrong side of the road, lost the back of the car, and ended up rear end first into a gaurd rail.

The reason for the accident, besides a little excitement, was he wasn't experienced enough in my books to know his car's (and/or his) limits, and he drive beyond his limits.

Anyway, he walked from the accident, the car is pretty much a write-off, but he was scratch free, and just a little shaken.

But, for those who dont know, only about 80 minutes later, a Honda Civic also went barrelling down Old Pac, lost it at the same spot, plowed into a tree, and the car caught fire, the driver died at the scene.

I dont know details for the 2nd accident, but I do know that it's not pretty when someone dies, for them, their family, and for the people that witness it, or have to removing him fromt he car later on.

When speaking with a few people about this weekend gone, I found a lot of young drivers (some p-platers, others just young) died needlessly on the roads.

Something which came up was the cheap track days where you can pay $10 and go fanging around a purpose desiged track, but then somsone said there are those who know they dont have the skills to beat people in that setup, nor can their cars handle it, so they choose to find a quiet road and show the world their skills (or lack of) in that area instead of being shown up at the track events.

This is a sad attitude, their pride of trying to be the best is the cause of their deaths.

After this weekend gone, all I can saw is PLEASE PLEASE FARKIN PLEASE SLOW DOWN, and drive with some respect for your car, yourself, and other drivers.

B.
Gary Morriss
DieHard
SA
TT

Posts: 634
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 04:20 pm, by:  Gary Morriss (Gaza) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even though i do circuit racing, and done a high performance course, id still like to do a skid pan day, but can't find anywhere in SA that does one.
If anyone knows of one in SA, maybe they could post it up, be good to do a day there.

Add Your Message Here
Eye Candy
Click for full size
Bold text Italics Underline Center Text Upload photo from your hard drive Make a List Make a Table Make an Image Thumbnail Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image Formatting Help
         

Username: Important Posting Information:
If asking a question, have you done a search to see if your question has already been answered?
Be aware that the use of SMS-speak eg "u" instead of "you" etc, will get your post deleted.
Password:
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message

  Administration Administration      Log Out Log Out Previous Previous      Next Next