Tuesday, March 13, 2012 - 06:30 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Aaron Casey wrote on Monday, March 12, 2012 - 10:44 pm:
but ill be in melbourne for formula one
Ohh, Poor you.
yeah about 32 kg for the doors, plus 12kg from the computers and associated wiring. I still need to pull the fuel pump ecu and some other fuel pump wiring out (Troy wired the fuel pump to the Haltech). Not sure of the weight that went in, but the looms are tiny in comparison, and the Haltech weighs bugger all.
The front bar and undertray weigh 10kg. The setup prior to that weighed significantly more (can't remember the number) and there are some other things I removed or lightened whilst it was all apart.
So I'd say about 40-50kg has been saved in the last rebuild, and all from the mid and frontal area.
I hope to get down to the weighbridge for a guestimate, but work just keeps getting in the way.
Andrew McKellar DieHard NSW Soarer Sports Sedan (well, nearly)
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 - 11:25 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
A mate has just vacuum bagged a CF dash in his FD. Watching him try it has got me thinking about giving it a go. Not CF but - the cloth is more than 10 times the cost of CSM.
I believe my drivers door is a combo of two errors. First the skin mould deformed (first one I did) and frankly is not real good. The second is I have no way of indexing the skeleton against the skin when I go to bond them together when the skin is being laid up. Because the passenger door is generally a better mould, the parts lined up easily (or I fluked it). Both doors were not of good enough quality to use out of the mould, and had to be bogged, primed and painted. It was emotional.
and OI! lay off the fat jokes. I wish I could drop 8 kg. Having a bloody driver on one side of the car is a pain in the arse. Messes with my suspension alignment. I might move the seat and controls into the centre. How hard could that be?
Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 11:30 pm, by: Aaron Casey(Blownminiturbo)
Yeah as michael says may be worth looking into looking for some old gym weights as being heavy and fairly easy to handle we use them at work sometimes as alot of european cars wheel alignment specs are with 75kg weight in the drivers seat
Ben Lipman Goo Roo SA Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 06:57 am, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
I use plates from my gym to do the alignment.
What I meant was I need a 90kg something (me with all the gear on) on the other side to balance the driver. The car weighs well under 1400kg now, so nearly 100+kg of driver, helmet, clothing, seat, seatbelt, steering wheel, etc is 7-10% of the total weight of the car.
I am spending a week with Paul later this year, so I'll talk to him about his vacuum bag experience. Always easier to talk to someone who has just started as they speak in plain language and their mistakes are fresh in their mind. Then go to the experts for the tips, then I'll look at maybe having a go.
Really want to try carbon fibre now, but I need to find some at a fire sale for it to be worth the expense for something like a door/guard/bonnet.
Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:29 am, by: Aiden Cheese(Chillpen)
Ben Lipman wrote on Tuesday, March 13, 2012 - 11:25 pm:
OI! lay off the fat jokes.
I'll drive it for you ;) i'm only 56kg's never had weight problems in my life, still the same weight since 2002.
Ah my thirty's aren't far away now so i should stop eating HJ's and McD's every day.. but it'd be a shame not to use the metabolism i've got
If you're throwing out your wiring ben, wanna snip off the ECU plug and send it my way for some coin? Only if you're cutting it of course. I just want the plug + about 6-10" of cable so i can wire up my own piggyback loom. This AEM thing wants to eat into my existing wiring and i'm not really ok with that so i pulled apart a dead ecu and desoldered the female plug side, and now i'm just on the lookout for a male one.
Was thinking $40 plus postage
Only if you can be bothered of course you don't owe me anything so don't worry about it much i'm in no rush and if you can sell the loom whole or you just want to forget about it go right ahead!
Andrew McKellar DieHard NSW Soarer Sports Sedan (well, nearly)
Thursday, April 05, 2012 - 08:28 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Hit the track at Mallala today. Due to the way the track day was organised, I didn't get onto the track until 1130, and then I only got three runs.
Bit hard to figure out what was goin on with such limited track time. It kept locking the rears and/or axel tramping in the braking area, particularly on down shift. It also felt like it was understeering a bit, and the tyre pressures were not coming up as expected. It all got better when I put 35psi as a starting pressure, but I ran out of track time to chase it any further.
The Type D pads are good. They make a shed load of dust though- no good for your street car. I put them on for the third session. I did not get anywhere close to finding their limits.
By the end of the day I was still 2 seconds off my pace. When I got home and looked at the speed trace compared to last year I found I was slower through every corner and earlier on the brakes. As Paul told me today...it is time to man up, LOL.
The good news is the fibreglass doors stayed on, the front bar and undertray stayed together, and the engine/turbos/Haltech all work properly. Even with the 36 deg ambient temp they Munro Racing high flows consistently put out 15 PSI (indicated). The car definitely had more power, but I did notice a tiny bit of lag I was not used to. Given I was going through corners 8-10 kph slower than last year it could very well be that I am a little out of the rev range.
Hopefully I will find a way to get some decent track time do to some proper testing.
Friday, April 06, 2012 - 08:13 am, by: Paul Kalie(Ajzs)
Ben , I found a similar thing with a change in turbo on my old car. It went from having boost everywhere to being laggy and finding myself in wrong gears in a few corners. Maybe different rolling Diameter or Diff Gearing might be something you have to look.
Ben Lipman Goo Roo SA Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Monday, April 09, 2012 - 04:57 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Dan,
my initial thoughts too mate. (about the tune) I am less convinced after the issues went away when I set the pressures to 36psi starting all round. The understeer dissappeared as well. My pressures usually come up 6-7 psi during a session, but they did not this time. No idea why- could be the heat as Aaron suggested.
I have had a very detailed look at my speed traces from this day to the previous last year. In most braking areas I am on the brakes 20-40m earlier, and in some corners my speed is down 8-10kph. It all adds up to a driver issue, not mechanical. I will figure out how to put a speed trace comparion up on the forum to show what I mean. Good news is that even though my corner speed is down, my peak speed is up in the kink showing power can disguise poor driving.
Dan McColl Goo Roo Victoria (The Nazi State) Pretty Red Thing and The Black Rattler
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 11:00 am, by: Aiden Cheese(Chillpen)
Good work ben Do you find that you're worrying about your bodywork and stuff when youre out driving on track or are you able to just forget about it and trust in yourself?
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 04:01 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Aaron, there is a small amount of self doubt mixed with hope every time I do something major. The first few laps I was listening for the front bar or undertray to come off, or the doors to fail. After the first session I did a check over and found no real issues (self tapper screws are NOT ideal for fitting Dzus wires- loctite sorted that but will replace with a rivet later) so from there in I was chasing the lack of grip issues.
I am now looking to add more venting to the guards, modify the side skirts, and make a new rear wing from scratch.
If anyone has an opinion on a good wing profile to use to make a dual element rear wing with a chord length around 300mm and a span around 1600mm I am all ears.
I reckon if I can get back to the track for a decent day out I could beat my PB. I'll keep my eyes open for a track day I can get to. In the mean time I have a hundred things I want to do/try keeping me awake at night.
Ben Lipman Goo Roo SA Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 09:03 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
All right. So I have been away for a week and have spent most of it either reading about aero, looking at pictures of aero, or discussing aero with mates.
Home for one day and I took to the car with an angle grinder. Again. This time in the quest for more venting for the oil coolers, and to get air out of the guard and engine bay.
This is the result of a kilo or so of clay to get the shape right. I made a quick and dirty moulding so I can get something on the car for further shaping and to figure out how it is all going to fit together.
The guard will extend down to the existing side skirt, which will be sculpted to flow around the fire wall from the inner guard. A flat floor section will join the skirt and guard to the chassis rail, very much stolen from current spec DTM cars.
In other news I finally got around to taking the car to Coolfoam today. They were pretty happy with the signage and wanted a photo to hang on the wall. The car was filthy from the test day, so I promised to send them one of the track day ones above. (Assuming I can contact him- I don't do facebook)
Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 10:37 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Paul Kalie wrote on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 09:34 pm:
lol now I know why you went to the fibreglass shop your first day back
After I bought two and a half kilos of plasticine from office works! ($4 for 500g- heaps cheaper than the internet! Thanks for the heads up.
I was 'designing' on the back of envelopes, etc all the way home. I still want to make a wing, but need to find that right profile, and buy the gear. Realistically that will take time. Might be a project for next summer.
Dan McColl Goo Roo Victoria (The Nazi State) Pretty Red Thing and The Black Rattler
Thursday, April 19, 2012 - 08:16 am, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Problem with NACA (NASA) profiles is that most of the popular ones are for high speed applications. There are a bunch popular with heavy lift model aircraft competitors that look good. I need a wing optimised for speeds around 200kph and below. The other problem is there are literally thousands of them. Great website for looking at them all:
I have a couple of NACA profiles I am looking at, as well as a few others that have been used in motorsports. I am hunting around for those that have worked well in the dirty air behind a sedan based car. I have found a few papers that have generalised suggestions about selecting a profile (thicker wing section, blunt round leading edge, high efficiency, low reynolds number etc). Reading through grassroots motorsports forums is helping narrow it down seeing what works. The problem is as always that those who can afford to test several wings don't share the info, and those who are happy to share info generally don't have the cash to test several...
Dan McColl Goo Roo Victoria (The Nazi State) Pretty Red Thing and The Black Rattler
Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 08:50 am, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
I got a bit carried away with the grinder and cut up a lot of the car. I then used chux cloth to try and get a decent flowing shape to make a new inner guard liner to redirect air out of the guard. This was further reinforced with fibreglass to make the new part.
I also cut up my new fibreglass guard, deciding to put the new vent into the steel guard, rather than make the fiberglass guard fit due to not having all the mounts on it.
For the record: chux makes a crappy reinforcing cloth. Who'd a thought? Others have suggested I would have been better off with T-shirt material as it is heavier and will hold more resin. Might try that when I get to the other side. I just started using the chux as it was within arms length when I was trying to visualise what I wanted it too look like.
I still need to make up a flat undertray and 'splitter' for the space between the skirt and chassis rail. I am thinking of creating a tunnel that gradually forms into another diffuser into the rear wheel well. The rear of the rear wheel well will then be opened up so it catches no air.
If nothing else it should look pretty crazy!
Andrew McKellar DieHard NSW Soarer Sports Sedan (well, nearly)
Monday, April 23, 2012 - 08:32 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
yeah, Hektik.
Plan number 7 (run out of letters) I am now going to make the lower half of the guard from aluminium sheetmetal. Just need to find some. I used to buy it from bunnings, but now it seems to only have diamond plate or 0.5mm sheet.
Reason for aluminium, I can start from a nice straight piece instead of trying to take the compound curve out of the stock guard and get it nice and straight, plus it came over arctic today so fibreglass is no good.
Some progress pics of me basically trying to think it all through.
Dan McColl Goo Roo Victoria (The Nazi State) Pretty Red Thing and The Black Rattler
Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 07:51 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Yeah, It is kinda getting away from me isn't it? I had such a day at the 'private test day' I'd almost rather work on it than drive.
I can't back that up. I really want to drive it, but need a good open test day so I can get a handle on it. Last time I made major changes to the car (roll cage in Darwin) and times went backwards I got on top of it after a good solid day of trying things doing a session, changing something and going again.
I have this massive list of things I want to do in my head. Every now and then a situation presents itself and I just feel like I need to exploit it. This time it was the oil temps getting out of hand again due to the increase in power. I had to cut the guard for a larger vent, and one thing led to another.
If I won lotto, I still reckon I'd buy all the resources to make everything myself, rather than pay someone to do it. Sequential gearbox and a Morpowa built custom 2J/GT35 package would probably find their way under the bonnet though.
Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 06:15 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Small update: I found some aluminium, but only 1.3mm. Not quite as stiff as the 1.6mm I was chasing, but a guy was willing to help me out on a saturday morning so I grabbed it.
I have remade the lower section of the guard in ally and riveted the flat bottom to the skirt and floor. This is only temporary until I find some wide, flat, load spreading rivets, or a washer to suit. It is all nice and firm though.
I refitted the front bar to get an idea of how a flat undertray for the engine would sit. This has bugged me since I fitted the new front splitter as my older plywood designs all extended under the engine. When I was under there I noticed some significant wear as seen in the pics below.
It would appear that the rear end of the diffuser is being 'sucked' down to the track surface enough that it is scraping, at least while the car is braking. WHilst this is good news (it means the diffuser is working) it is also something else that needs to be fixed. I had fitted ally angle to reinforce the rear of the diffusers but this now has a significant bow in it. You need to push the centre section upwards about an inch to get it level. I am looking at some way to make a subframe for the diffuser to slide onto and there fore have the rear supported. This will also become the front mounting point for the engine undertray. The rear will extend to at least the bell housing. and meet up with the two side flat panels.
Hopefully fitting an engine undertray will persuade a lot of the radiator airflow out the vent in the bonnet, once I move it forwards about 100-150mm and then there should be less air under the car.
SO once again the car is 'off the road' as there is no point driving it and risking tearing the undertray out of it and maybe crashing again.
Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 07:11 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Aaron, there is nothing sort of anywhere near the end of the undertray/diffusers. The closest thing is the sway bar. The front crossmember/subframe is about 15-20cm to the rear of the diffuser. I am thinking I may need to weld some square tube to the subframe so the diffuser engages the tube somehow and is then supported. The trick is it has to be dead simple and it must 'slide' together without any help as when the car is on the ground you cannot get under there.
The other idea is bolt some ally hooks to the lower radiator supports to catch the diffuser and retain it.
I still have never figured out the brake ducting, so there might be something there I can do to incorporate some supports.
Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 07:51 pm, by: Aaron Casey(Blownminiturbo)
Oh ok. The way i was thinking of making mine is the front one with front bumper bolts to bumper and to front of subframe where original one went. Then have a seperate sheet under the engine and have it bolted near steering rack. Then possibly make some more going to the back of the gearbox in two sections so has a gap down centre for the gearbox and exhaust
Ben Lipman Goo Roo SA Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car