Last x Days Posts  1 | 3 | 7 Days  Search  Topics  Tree View  Help
  Soarer Central * Track and Major Rebuild Car Projects * Ben's Time Attack Soarer * Archive through July 17, 2013 Previous Previous    Next Next  

Author Message
Clayton Carlyle
TryHard
NSW
v8 soarer twin turbo

Posts: 253
Reg: 04-2009

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, July 01, 2013 - 11:32 am, by:  Clayton Carlyle (Clayton) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only problem with positioning to fill is that it will be further aft the rear axle, not good weight distribution.
I am thinking of using the standard tank because it tucks up in front of the axle.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3427
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, July 01, 2013 - 12:11 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know- damned if you do damned if you don't. The stock position is good for keeping weight close to centre of vehicle, but puts the weight up high- bad for handling. Getting all the components in that area was causing me headaches.

Put the tank further back- weight is further from centre of vehicle, but you can get it lower down which is good. I have more room to fit components- but now my return line is going to be three times as long.

I looked at fitting a pipe up to the factory filler neck to solve the refuelling issue. Much too fiddly to get done by Friday (car goes in for E85 on the weekend.
Michael McKellar
TryHard
NSW
Mini

Posts: 111
Reg: 08-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, July 01, 2013 - 09:15 pm, by:  Michael McKellar (Mickmini) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How long are the races you intend doing? It is not as if you will be lugging 160kg of fuel around in a 600kg chassis like in F1. I know you are trying to optimise, but like Clayton says, sometimes the optimisation has to be on your time and effort where you can achieve a lot more benefit than where to sit 20kg max of fuel in a 1200kg chassis. Honestly I think the benefit of locating that 20kg of fuel 200mm lower is lost in the noise when you consider everything else that gives much more benefit for less effort.

cheers
michael
Paul Kalie
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 127
Reg: 02-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:04 am, by:  Paul Kalie (Ajzs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben,
how heavy is the lump of Iron under the bonnet ?.

Your car would already be very front heavy has anyone corner weighted one of these ?. Honestly think it may be better where you have it now anyway.

Paul
Paul Kalie
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 128
Reg: 02-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:13 am, by:  Paul Kalie (Ajzs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

stock weight distribution is about 55% front 45% rear ?
Paul Kalie
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 129
Reg: 02-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:23 am, by:  Paul Kalie (Ajzs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Found stock weights, even though Ben car is far from stock it shows standard corner weights.
Found this in a thread. Funny enough your post Ben is about the 4th down in the corner weight thread. Its funny when you Google your name where it comes up :p




Upload
Clayton Carlyle
TryHard
NSW
v8 soarer twin turbo

Posts: 254
Reg: 04-2009

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 01:43 pm, by:  Clayton Carlyle (Clayton) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha, I think your right Michael, I had just finished watching the British F1 the night before I wrote that. I always get amped up on weight & balance after an F1.
Still tho every little bit counts. The main hate I have with my car is having all the weight of the turbo's, manifolds & intercooler all at the very front of the car. It's just too front heavy, anything to move the weight to the centre for me feels like a win.
BMW pride themselves on having 85% of the gross weight between the axles, Audi R8 has over 90%,hence the deceptively long wheel base.
Andrew McKellar
DieHard
NSW
V8 Soarer Sports Sedan

Posts: 658
Reg: 06-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 03:54 pm, by:  Andrew McKellar (Toymax) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Paul Kalie wrote on Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:04 am:

how heavy is the lump of Iron under the bonnet ?. Your car would already be very front heavy has anyone corner weighted one of these ?.




My corner weights are here (my engine weighs 70kg less than yours Ben):

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/263854/373560.html?1362947124
Andrew McKellar
DieHard
NSW
V8 Soarer Sports Sedan

Posts: 659
Reg: 06-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 03:57 pm, by:  Andrew McKellar (Toymax) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And my car doesn't feel "taily" at all, with the massive 40kg of the tank sitting in the boot.

I think you'll be happy with it in the boot, particularly when you have to fill it. Just make up the brackets to sit it as low as you can go and it'll be fine.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3428
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - 08:08 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The tank is now mostly in the boot. I ended up making a small steel subframe to mount the tank on the current alloy 'floor'. The frame will bolt in to the cross members front and rear of the boot. The reason for bolt in and not weld in, is at some stage I will be changing the diffuser setup to take advantage of all the extra room now I am running a single exhaust.

The surge tank is covering the left hand hole in the floor from the factory tank breather. The right hand hole will be used to run the fuel and return lines. The tank will vent straight down under the car, using a roll over valve.

Despite having various fittings laying around, I decided to go full speedflow 200 series hose and fittings. This has caused a major blowout in my 'fittings budget' but after reading about many failures from cheaper fittings (and hearing about a few first hand) I decided the expense is a worthwhile investment. The only non speedflow fitting will be the aeroflow rollover valve that came with the aeroflow tank. (ironically I need to buy a speedflow adaptor to make it fit the aeroflow tank it came with...)

Tomorrow will be devoted to finishing the subframe install: making plates and captive nuts for the subframe (like seatbelt mounts) and tank itself.

Also hope to wire the pumps up- will be researching the best way to wire these into the car tonight. I am thinking relay, and dedicated heavy gauge wire for the pumps from the power distribution box/alternator/emergency cutoff switch and a toggle switch on the dash wired via the accessories circuit so they still shut off with the key.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3429
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, July 05, 2013 - 06:18 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Update: the fuel system is installed and the car is at Morpowa for the injector/rail/FPR swap and E85 tune.

Was unable to get a 60 deg fitting (apparently speedflow haven't started making them yet despite it being in their catalogue?) so I used the 90 that was going to connect up the external vent line. I used an old breather/filter thing that seemed to fit perfectly over the roll over valve.

As stated above, the system uses speedflow throughout. (Allan, I completely understand you comment above now. If I had to do it again, I would go spend some time in the wreckers and find a in tank surge tank). The only non speedflow fitting is the one that came with the surge tank to connect the Bosch 044 pump. Guess which fitting leaks? Yep, that's right. Like a sieve.

With the drop off time fast approaching, I rang Simon at Morpowa and explained the problem. He will fix or replace the fitting for me. I really did not want to drop the car off leaking fuel, but at least he knows about it. Lesson learnt: use quality fittings throughout.



Upload

Upload

Upload
Andrew McKellar
DieHard
NSW
V8 Soarer Sports Sedan

Posts: 660
Reg: 06-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, July 05, 2013 - 08:06 pm, by:  Andrew McKellar (Toymax) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice work mate. I'm sure you'll be happy with it once it is running.
Clayton Carlyle
TryHard
NSW
v8 soarer twin turbo

Posts: 255
Reg: 04-2009

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, July 05, 2013 - 08:55 pm, by:  Clayton Carlyle (Clayton) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That looks really good.
Are you leaving the standard lines under the car?
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3430
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, July 05, 2013 - 09:25 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Andrew. I will just have to wear the cost of whatever Morpowa deem necessary to fix the issue. I didn't see a fitting in the Speedflow catalogue that joins -8AN directly to the inlet of a Bosch 044. If there is one then the fix should be cheap. If no speedflow fitting exists, then they will have to come up with a work around, which will no doubt be expensive.

Clayton, I intend to use the stock fuel lines until someone decides they are the limiting factor. I used a 14x1.5 inverted flare adaptor to join up to the main line, and a GM EFI adaptor to fit the rubber return line. I was a little worried about the inverted flare adaptor as it only takes 3 to 3.5 threads to bottom out. Seems to make a good seal, but I would feel better if it took a few more threads. There is a fitting on the US market for Honda fanboys that looks better than the speedflow fitting. I pointed it out to the guys at Morpowa as a point of concern. We will see.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 7429
Reg: 03-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, July 05, 2013 - 09:50 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look forward to the Munros being wound up on e85 :-)
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
VIC
'10 Kluger, 98 Aristo, 2012 SLC Superlite Coupe

Posts: 3267
Reg: 03-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, July 05, 2013 - 10:44 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding the TPMS: Many of them these days are bluetooth. The sensors are concealed in the rims. The display is 'pocket sized' and considering it monitors temp as well, one might say it is a temp measuring device...
Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 987
Reg: 05-2010

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 07:58 am, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's ok I'm mostly here for my good looks ;)

Ben Lipman wrote on Friday, July 05, 2013 - 06:18 pm:

Allan, I completely understand you comment above now. If I had to do it again, I would go spend some time in the wreckers and find a in tank surge tank


Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 988
Reg: 05-2010

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 08:44 am, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

for reference....
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
NSW
'94 2jz JZZ30 gttl, '93 UZZ31 track, VT, 2x Leyland Mini's

Posts: 3592
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 06:38 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding tpms. The way the rules are explained is more as in they allow monitoring but not a controlled valve to reduce pressure if needed like the 4wds use to go on sand etc? So you cannot change tyre pressures half way through a race.. thats the way I see it or am I incorrect??fuel system looks good mate. Had same problem with a cheaper fitting I had on mine that came with a catch can or something.. just could not get it to seal. Replaced with speedflow and no dramas.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3440
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 09:25 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SO, not much is happening. The car is still in at Morpowa. It was in the cue to go on the rollers when I rang on Monday. Expecting a call tomorrow to come pick it up assuming nothing went wrong.

The fuel leak was actually from the fitting bottoming out on the weld on the surge tank, there fore the fitting was not making a seal. The guys at Morpowa have modified the fitting to fix the issue. I assume they cut some of the collar of the fitting off to allow it to properly seal.

Seeing as I haven't had the car to work on, I have done a few jobs around the house and played around with the spare shell. I bought a guard rolling tool and rolled one of the rear guards in the spare. The Desmonds fit under the rear with a simple roll job. I may end up cutting some of the inner guard out to get the flare deeper into the guard.
Spencer Cameron
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30

Posts: 302
Reg: 04-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 10:05 pm, by:  Spencer Cameron (Switchio) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a thought, when I installed my surge tank originally I had my relays and fuses all neatly set there next to my pump.

Then I got to thinking that maybe they wouldnt get along so well with my tank if it leaked and then one of the relays wasnt well sealed or maybe a fuse blew.

Maybe I'm being paranoid but know what they say. "Better to be paranoid then.. on fire." Or something like that.
Clayton Carlyle
TryHard
NSW
v8 soarer twin turbo

Posts: 263
Reg: 04-2009

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 03:15 pm, by:  Clayton Carlyle (Clayton) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben I had to cut a slit all the way around the inside guard in order to get a decent flare.
It's also important to watch the whole fender doesn't kink at the centre of the wheel arch. This can happen because of an inner frame welded to the inside wheel guard, chop threw those as well if you have to.
The hard part is welding it all back up, it's easy but dirty & very time consuming.

I couldn't flare mine any further without cutting the sub frame, so I left it but wish I had of gone further.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3441
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 08:28 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had the same thought Spencer, but then I realised that on the end of each pump is a live wire with 12V at 15 - 25 amps. The tank is/will be vented under the boot floor, and the vent goes through a roll over valve. I compromised and put the relays nice and high. If a scrutineer ever decides it is a bit iffy, I can encase them in a plastic box of some description ( plenty of Tupperware in the cupboard, LOL).

Clayton, They are flared well enough to cover the wheels at full bump and then some. I am actually making these out of carbon fibre- the blue shell is just the mould. I will cut the old steel out all together, and then figure out some solution to seal it all back up so I don't collect 20kg of rubber in some nook or cranny.

I took some pics today so I'll download them from the camera and post some up here.
Paul Kalie
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 130
Reg: 02-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 08:38 pm, by:  Paul Kalie (Ajzs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So where is the Dyno update ?
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3442
Reg: 04-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 09:31 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pics. I pulled the struts out of the rear, so I was able to move the suspension right through its full range of movement.


Upload

Upload

Upload

  Administration Administration      Log Out Log Out Previous Previous      Next Next