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Edward Salem
Tinkerer
SA
AU6 Falcon

Posts: 19
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 04:59 pm, by:  Edward Salem (Sydeward) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The time is drawing closer in which ill be able to shell out for a new car.

Previously my plan was to take out a Personal loan w/ monthly repayments and sell my current AU6 falcon to purchase a V8 soarer GT.

Things have changed however, ive gone to the darkside! With a little more research ive found out some interesting facts about its little brother, the 6c 2.5L TT.

The obvious to begin with, is the speed difference when comparing the two engine types off the mark (~5.9s vs 7sV8/ 7.5s for the V8L)

When I decided on which model i was going to buy I was already aware of this, it didnt really bother me as I was under the impression that the V8 was going to save me big bikkies on petrol and insurance fees.....

Todays reserach though has shed a lot of light on the matter however.

Today i recieved 2 quotes from justcar insurance, both done online.
One was for the annual insurance fee for a SC400 - 4.0L GT with fire + theft, the other was for a SC300 2.5L TT with fire + theft.... I was expecting the TT quote to blow me away, but truth be told, both cars cost EQUALLY AS MUCH to insure!!!..

I thought i read the same quote twice, i couldnt believe my eyes, but indeed i was right... the TT 2.5L costs just as much as the V8GT to insure.

** so there goes the added benefit of having cheaper insurance...

The next thing i researched was fuel consumption... I read a few independant reviews, firstly for an AU falcon and then of the 2.5L TT... it appears for normal day to day driving the AU drinks more than the soarer!

apparently the soarer drinks 11 L / 100km, for a TT that is awesome and much better than i expected (perhaps i was misinformed =P)

So now ive found out the Soarer isnt going to be overly expensive on petrol, isnt going to cost any more than the big V8 for insurance, and is significantly quicker off the mark....

Above all they are CHEAPER, and easier to find.... i know this because ive been struggling to find a single 4.0L GT for under 8k online. Turbo soarers are abundant at the lower price range however...

Before i make a final decision, and eventually make a purchase, im turning to you guys to sell me out of buying a turbo!!:-)irate:

The only thing i havent been able to find much info on is the luxury side of the cars...

Will the turbo still have the CD stacker, electric windows, LCD display, climate control justable suspension? etc etc? how much luxury do i have to sacrifice to own the turbo?

I couldnt care for the Leather interior of the UZZ30, but one of the main reasons i decided on a soarer was that it is a luxury sports car at an affordable price point. My AU falcon has wind up windows, a up aircon that overheats my engine and a dull looking interior... I sure as hell would hope a turbo soarer would be a step up from that....

I can see the 2.5L TT Soarer is cheaper than the V8... theres gotta be a catch....


Ultimatelly i was hoping you could shed some light on what ive said, and perhaps fill me in...

am I making the right choice? am I really better of with a 2.5TT?
Danny Novosel
TryHard
SA
91 5 Speed TT, 91 LTD & 92 LTD

Posts: 103
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:12 pm, by:  Danny Novosel (Dtheman) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think that it is wise for us to make your mind up for you, I suggest you go to some car yards and test drive the both of them and decide which you think is better for you.....Goodluck
Ben Daniel
DieHard
WA
Twin Turbo

Posts: 980
Reg: 03-2006

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:25 pm, by:  Ben Daniel (Lexustt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ What he said. :-)
Edward Salem
Tinkerer
SA
AU6 Falcon

Posts: 20
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:33 pm, by:  Edward Salem (Sydeward) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeh i will, im definatelly not asking anyone to make up my mind for me, im already sold on the TT soarer and im a stubborn bastard anyways, im not the sort of guy who jumps off a cliff because jack said so lol

Some further research has suggested the majority of the lux features (CD stacker, electric seats / windows etc) are available on the TT as well...
like i was saying before, fuel consumption seems lower, insurance fees are the same, performance is better and prices are lower, perhaps because the TT is easier to come by... cant see why i shouldnt go for a TT?

I havent test driven one yet because only now am i close to being prepared to buy one.

I will, but some useful tips + information is always welcome from current soarer owners ;)
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 7050
Reg: 11-2004

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:36 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you get bitten by the boost bug, you may end up spending a lot more than you intended on your TT. :-)
Edward Salem
Tinkerer
SA
AU6 Falcon

Posts: 21
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:49 pm, by:  Edward Salem (Sydeward) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

haha yeh i wouldnt be suprised, although shell be stock for the time being as money dont grow on trees. as much as i love V8's i know the extra horses wont come cheap... This is a problem as with as much as i love cars, i couldnt see myself leaving the thing stock all of its life.

With turbos a chip + exhaust system is apparently a cheap yet effective way of getting some extra horses to pull the car along...

i know this is a pretty limited topic, most of what is to know ive already researched, im mainly hoping you could all confirm everything ive said, and perhaps tell me something i dont know because i sure dont want any nasty suprises on the day that my car arrives on my doorstep.Especially since im buying online you can never be 100% sure of what your getting...

something i havent found is a stocki 0 - 100 time for a JZZ30 2.5L TT soarer.. one site billed it as a 5.9s car although im fairly certain it had some work done to it. theres a utube clip on the net with a stock TT going to 125km/h although that looks more like 6.2-3 to me..

oh and yeh are the V8 luxury features available on the TT soarer? half the reason i decided on a soarer over something else was its luxury options and styling... otherwise id just put my money on a R32 / even a cheaper AU XR8....
Darryn Dewar
DieHard
Gisborne
UZZ30 Soarer

Posts: 624
Reg: 09-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:51 pm, by:  Darryn Dewar (Mrphreak) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do believe you're mislead on the fuel consumption.....especially if you intend to actually get the turbo's spinning
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2356
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:53 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't buy a cheap as chips TT either. Turbos are quite pricey things to fix/replace. I'd go for something above $10K (whether TT or V8), and preferably buy a car that belongs to one of the members here, as you know that they have been taken care of. I have seen a few shockers in my time, and for $7K you are more likely gonna get a car with some problems in it. Differnce between Luxo V8s and TTs is basically less gadgets in the TT (such as electric steering wheel column, air bag suspension, EMV and so on. TTs can be equally luxurious, and all have power windows, power mirrors with fold in feature, climate control, digi dash etc. Some have TRC, ABS and airbag (depending on the year of manufacture).

Fuel consumption wise, it all depends on the style of driving. If you drive like a grandma, the TT will be quite economical, as it will not get on boost. If you do give it a lot of boot, then it will drink the fuel like there's no tomorrow. Chances are you will like the boost feeling of a TT,a nd you will floor it a lot more often than you did with a Falcon, it might actually cost you more for fuel, especially that the 98RON is like 10 cents more expensive than the nromal unleaded you would use in your Falcon.
Edward Salem
Tinkerer
SA
AU6 Falcon

Posts: 22
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:12 pm, by:  Edward Salem (Sydeward) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Daniel Czechowski wrote on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:53 pm:


Belive me im no stranger to high fuel consumption, i dont exactly drive the falcon like grandma believe me haha. If the TT will drink more juice than the V8 i wouldnt be suprised, this would account for the extra performance output. But lets keep in mind too that 80% of the time ill be driving it sensibly to and fro work, perhaps fuel consumption wont be so bad after all....

oh and could you explain what 98RON is? the soarer will be my first sports car so im not too familiar with a lot of terminoligy yet :-( .

Is this some sort of high octane unleaded fuel?
is it widely available?

More combustable than standard fuel or longer lasting?
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2357
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:22 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, it is a higher octane rated fuel. See normal unleaded is rated at 91RON, Premium is 95. 98RON is as widely available as the rest. In WA it can be bought at BP, and is branded BP Ultimate, eastern states also have Caltex and others. Not sure baout South Australia, pretty sure there's BP over there with Ultimate. Every BP station has it anyway, so no problems.

See, Soarers are designed to run on 100RON fuel, which is what they have in Japan. Over here, 98 is the best you can get. Never put in anything less than 98 RON, or it will not be good for the engine in the long term. Once in a while should be fine, say if you can't get 98 coz there isn't any, but always put in 98 when available.
Will Adams
DieHard
WA
Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 658
Reg: 02-2006

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:24 pm, by:  Will Adams (Draco) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

RON is basically the octane level of the fuel.

Normal unleaded is 92 RON
Premium unleaded is 95 RON
BP Ultimate is 98RON

Of course not sure what you have over in SA, but here in WA the only one I know of is BP Ultimate. Available whereever there is a BP gas station.
Edward Salem
Tinkerer
SA
AU6 Falcon

Posts: 23
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:50 pm, by:  Edward Salem (Sydeward) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeh we got BP ultimate here too. now that you mention that, wonder if id get a free performance boost if i ran the AU6 on Ron for a while? It will be advertised soon and its been running a bit rough on petrol lately (unresponsive + slower than on GAS) ive been told the injectors may be blocked... ive also been adviced that the ECU simply may have ajusted itself for performance running under LPG.

none the less would running a higher octane fuel be safe / help clear out the injectors?
im just speculating here haha

also daniel you mentioned 98ron is more expensive than standard unleaded fuel, but being richer and more combustable, wouldnt it last longer than standard ULP under regular driving conditions anyways?


also from what ive seen the TT consumption figures in regular driving conditions are around 12l p 100/km whereas the V8 sucks in 14L... so even if its more expensive to purchase 98RON, surely this would be made up for in better fuel consumption....

anyways all in all it looks like the TT is the go for now... I know theres a lot of V8 lovers here, hell i have a softspot for them too, but really, comparing some video clips around the internet the sounds the TT produces is very similar to that of its big V8 brother, with less show and more go so to speak... i havent been in one yet so i dont know for sure, im sure you guys could correct me if im wrong!!

Oh and if the TT dont come with Leather interior stock, are they fabricated / vinyl?

My current car has vinyl interior and its the most uncomforable crap that ive ever sat in... I sat in my old mazda 929 a while ago when i took a mate from work for a test drive / offered to sell it to him, and the fabric interior was much more comfortable to be in... wraps around your body
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1088
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:50 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Fill yer boots.
Will Adams
DieHard
WA
Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 660
Reg: 02-2006

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:55 pm, by:  Will Adams (Draco) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edward again it depends on which TT you got. There is the pov pack and the lux packs really. The pov pack Soarers (one's without the electric seats and TEMS) have fabric cloth seats. The GT-TL has the velour trim.
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2361
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:17 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Will. Pov packs (like mine) have velour trim as well! I have never seen a cloth trim in a Soarer. :-)
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 2998
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:41 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You say you like performance so a TT will probably be what you buy.

Luxury depends on your standards. The V8 Limited or the Active has more luxury than any TT but a TT has most of the features you have actually mentioned apart from leather seats.

May I suggest you get a second quotation on insurance? You asked for a price on an "SC300 2.5L TT". There is of course no such car in any country or parlance. If the insurer imagined you were talking about a 3-litre NA Soarer (SC300 in America) then they are talking about a non-turbo car which will have much lower insurance cost than a TT. You might buy a TT and then get a shock when they quote on the real car.

A lightly driven TT will get better fuel consumption than a V8, A TT driven with gusto will get worse. Both should do better than the Falcon in equivalent driving. My warmed over V8 typically gets 12L/100km and about 10L/100km on trips.

Good luck with your car selection
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
Ellerslie
Soarer 4.0GT

Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:42 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bought the V8 version and so far damn happy with it, I pondered about a TT as an alternative but the 2.5L capacity put me off when theres no boost especially in a 1.5 Tonne car! This wouldnt be a problem on the high boost but still.. So I stuck with buying a 4.0GT V8 in the base spec which is my pick of the bunch IMO.

No complaints with it at all, with my tune ups power would be around 275BHP or more (need to dyno it really I suspect at least 140rwkw would be surprised if it was lower!)

Ive timed it to 62mph and got in the lower to mid 6 seconds on the crap stock wheels with low grip, looking much forward to further tune ups hopefully into the high 5s one day. You never know... :-)

Still I recommend just test a few V8s and TTs and see what you like more - Go for the TT if you want big top end power for a decent cost.
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria
Active V8 and a Factory Manual XF.

Posts: 1980
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 08:15 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Edward Salem wrote on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 04:59 pm:

One was for the annual insurance fee for a SC400 - 4.0L GT with fire + theft, the other was for a SC300 2.5L TT with fire + theft.... I was expecting the TT quote to blow me away, but truth be told, both cars cost EQUALLY AS MUCH to insure!!!..


This will be 3rd party property only insurance. Which means that basically, you're self insuring your own car in the event of an accident. It will only cover damage to another person's property. If you get some quotes for comprehensive insurance there will be a big difference.

Also, it's been said before, but it's wise to remember when you are looking at 8-10k cars, you are in the budget end of the market, and often get what you pay for.
Edward Salem
Tinkerer
SA
AU6 Falcon

Posts: 24
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 08:34 pm, by:  Edward Salem (Sydeward) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Dan McColl wrote on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 08:15 pm:

This will be 3rd party property only insurance. Which means that basically, you're self insuring your own car in the event of an accident. It will only cover damage to another person's property. If you get some quotes for comprehensive insurance there will be a big difference.

Also, it's been said before, but it's wise to remember when you are looking at 8-10k cars, you are in the budget end of the market, and often get what you pay for.




regarding your first comment, i know what you mean, thats why im going 3rd party for the moment. insuring a turbo comp would be rediculously expensive (id expect it to be well over 1.5k considering thats what i got quoted for comp on a V8 soarer.), and while not all people look at it this way, i figure spending ~1.5k PA on insurance for a under 10k car is a waste. Its like buying a lottery ticket, you may never get anything back... although i guess that isnt such a bad thing...

Ive been driving 3 years and touch wood i havent had a single accident. If heaven forbid i hit a $200k lambo, 3rd party will cover me, as for my car ill sort out the damages with my own savings.


David Vaughan wrote on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:41 pm:

May I suggest you get a second quotation on insurance? You asked for a price on an "SC300 2.5L TT". There is of course no such car in any country or parlance. If the insurer imagined you were talking about a 3-litre NA Soarer (SC300 in America) then they are talking about a non-turbo car which will have much lower insurance cost than a TT. You might buy a TT and then get a shock when they quote on the real car.




The quote was done online, and everything had to be preselected from a drop down menu, including make and model... i definatelly selected the 2.5L TT. go to justcar.com.au and have a look for yourself, its the only one there cant go wrong!

as Dan said in the post before mine, if it had been a comp quote the V8 wouldve definatelly been cheaper, at $400 for 3rd party +F+T it hefty, this is definatelly taking into account that the car is turbo!
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 3001
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 08:43 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not go to justcar because they have never offered a competitive quotation for me. If all you wanted was 3PP then why were you surprised? Never mind. As I said before, you look from your very first post like a person wanting to buy a TT and now assembling the rationale. Take care over what car you finally buy and any Soarer model that you prefer should suit you well.
Phil Gibson
DieHard
WA
'94 black/black UZZ31

Posts: 917
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:37 pm, by:  Phil Gibson (Sciflyer) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha i saw your thread over at OCAU and before i could reply they locked it!

Well now that everyone has pretty much covered what i was going to say, the only thing left for me to comment on is that magazine article - sif cant spin the wheels on a stock V8!



Cameron Wylde
Tinkerer
Western Australia
TT

Posts: 27
Reg: 09-2006

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:54 pm, by:  Cameron Wylde (Azazel) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can give you a rock solid quote mate.

My soarer useto be insured 3rd party with just car. $431 (with f+t). So looks like your quote was on the money.

Im 22 with no major driving offences.
Drive a TT soarer. When you get yours, do the woodgrain and leather swap out of a v8 donor. IMO, the best of both worlds. Power and luxury.
Joel Moore
TryHard
SA
91 Soarer TT

Posts: 115
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:11 pm, by:  Joel Moore (Ttsoai2ei2) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

edward if you can afford it buy a TT. I love my TT best car i have ever owned. I recently cracked 700kms out of the 78L tank! Spend the money on a clean soarer you can quite easily buy a dog and throw money into the abyss.
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 2589
Reg: 09-2005

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 12:52 am, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Daniel Czechowski wrote on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:17 pm:

No Will. Pov packs (like mine) have velour trim as well! I have never seen a cloth trim in a Soarer. :-)



No it doesnt Daniel =P
You have the same interior as me and its the bottom rung my friend.

Top is leather
Middle is velour (VERY Common)
Bottom is cloth with the little poke up bits =P
A good way to tell is looking at the pattern, velour has the stripes on it, the crummy seats dont! =P
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2363
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 01:18 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Callum, what are you smokin man? I want some too!

Dude, it IS velour! Just a different pattern. Go take a look, I just did. It just doesn't have those 'stripes' on the bottom part, and there is no cargo net thingy on the back of our seat either. Yes, they are meant to be the lower end seats, but apart from the fact that they are not electric (lumbar adjustment still is), are different colour and pattern, and don't have a cargo net in the back, they are the same, velour seats. Compare those soarer seats against your corolla seats, there ain't no cloth seats in any model of a soarer, kapish?

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