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Scott Casey
TryHard
nsw
soarer v8

Posts: 120
Reg: 02-2008

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Friday, September 19, 2008 - 11:06 am, by:  Scott Casey (V8soarer_1991) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

engines combining both 2- and 4-stroke functions

A revolutionary new engine concept developed by a consortium led by Ricardo offers an attractive alternative to conventional spark ignited combustion. By combining the benefits of two- and four-stroke combustion, the 2/4SIGHT engine presents the prospect of 27 per cent fuel savings over current engine technology.

(Some engine management companies are really struggling to keep up with the engine technology that is coming out lately)

link

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110845/article.html
Benjamin Burgess
Goo Roo
NSW
Toyota Corolla Conquest

Posts: 1913
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, September 19, 2008 - 03:24 pm, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Autospeed does tend to talk up a lot. I would take what is said with a grain of salt. Just to show a few examples of engines with huge potential that never really happened,

Orbital engine
http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/australia_innovates/?behaviour=view_article&Section_id=1020&article_ id=10041
bmw's water phase engine
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/12/bmw_developing.php
Saab's varible compression engine
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/000318.html
Crowers 6 stroke engine.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE

and many many more...

Whats really funny is a lot of these ideas, especially the run your car on water all seem to pop up when petrol prices hit new highs.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western Australia
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, September 19, 2008 - 08:49 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Benjamin Burgess wrote on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 03:24 pm:

Autospeed does tend to talk •••• up a lot. I would take what is said with a grain of salt. Just to show a few examples of engines with huge potential that never really happened,




I read the story and it semed as if it had come straight from the developers or a third party, not Austospeed itself.

I find these stories fascinating, personally:-)

I heard about the BMW steamer ages ago, perhaps it's still under development? It seems logical to extract energy from waste heat.
Evan Kaio
TryHard
The Hutt
'91 UZZ31

Posts: 231
Reg: 01-2007

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Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 05:00 pm, by:  Evan Kaio (Knave) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Benjamin Burgess wrote on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 03:24 pm:

Whats really funny is a lot of these ideas, especially the run your car on water ••••• all seem to pop up when petrol prices hit new highs.



Yeah have to agree with that but, you gotta remember is, that some of these guys doing water/ hydrogen stuff are just ordinary blokes like us, and they've spent a lot of hours building, testing, going back to the drawing board and starting again, and no one is paying them to do it. Sounds like a hobby, doesn't it.
I reckon it will happen one day
Evan Kaio
TryHard
The Hutt
'91 UZZ31

Posts: 232
Reg: 01-2007

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Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 05:01 pm, by:  Evan Kaio (Knave) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mike Triggs wrote on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 08:49 pm:

I find these stories fascinating, personally



So do I.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western Australia
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1155
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 08:34 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure if anyone has misunderstood the BMW story, but they're not talking about splitting the water into H2 and O2, they're using waste heat to run a small steam engine which would utilise waste heat which otherwise goes out the exhaust. I seem to remember reading that 15kW could be added.
Benjamin Burgess
Goo Roo
NSW
Toyota Corolla Conquest

Posts: 1914
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, September 22, 2008 - 09:21 am, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's right it has a water vapour phase. These are all top ideas, don't get me wrong. However would they last 100,000kms, 200,0000kms, 300,000kms... Would you drive a car that had an engine that required a rebuild every 20,000-50,000kms? The first rotaries that came out in the 70's lasted about this long on average.

Reliability is a very big thing. Current Otto cycle, crank driven piston engine is very reliable and relatively cheap to manufacture and warrant.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western Australia
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1158
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, September 22, 2008 - 01:02 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think BMW are considering getting out of Otto cycle engines anytime soon, Benjamin:-) What BMW are doing is utilising heat which normally disappears out the tailpipe, and supplementary to the power from the engine. As a small bonus, the steam engine would also be part of the engine's cooling system, so radiators and water pumps would be smaller, so saving weight, frontal area for aerodynamics, and a small amount of power from water pump.

A well built small steam engine should last the life of the main engine. I would imagine the system would be sealed, with maybe a top up of pure water at each oil change interval.
Brendan McGannon
TryHard
s.a
JZZ30 'drift supreme' and JZS147

Posts: 173
Reg: 05-2006

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Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 01:09 pm, by:  Brendan McGannon (1jzspec) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mike Triggs wrote on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 08:49 pm:

It seems logical to extract energy from waste heat




ie: turbo's!!!
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western Australia
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1165
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 02:07 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Turbos extract waste exhaust kinetic energy, not heat. Heat is actually the enemy of turbos, so utilising the heat (into a steam energy) would be beneficial for the turbo, too.

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