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Adam Brown
TryHard
QLD
Soarer TT Manual

Posts: 112
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 04:46 pm, by:  Adam Brown (82ajb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is more of a drag racing question, but this is the most appropriate section i thought.
Went to Willowbank on wednesday night for the first time since replacing the factory clutch and adding front mount intercooler. I was running 16" rims with 225/55 tyres at 24psi. I was having a bad night for a few other reasons (My shifter came loose and couldn't select a gear! Quite embarrassing having to push a soarer off the drag strip. Easy fix fortunately...), but i couldn't seem to get it to hook up well. From the launch all through first gear i just got violent axle tramp (hence the 2.8 60ft times off a .6 reaction!). Is this a suspension, tyre, technique issue? How do i solve it. I could only manage a 14.08, but i know mid 13's are possible.
Simon Triantafillou
TryHard
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 430
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 06:54 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately its a "feature" of the Soarer suspension setup. Stiffening the swaybar doesn't solve it & solid diff mounts doesn't solve it.
There are some really weird bushes that can be replaced which help, but I'm not sure if any of us manual owners has it sorted out with a 100% fix. Perhaps Manny can shed some more light on the situation, as I still experience axle tramp on take off also.
Damian Ware
Tinkerer
Victoria
Camry

Posts: 32
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 10:24 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

24psi?
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2940
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 01:38 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do a Search on the ALSC archive for "axle tramp" and all will be revealed.
Andrew Meiers
TryHard
Victoria
V8, ST

Posts: 268
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 08:08 am, by:  Andrew Meiers (Acmtt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter , just a suggestion , could we have a fast way to access the ALSC archive search(direct link). A lot of people wouldn't know where to start looking for it as i didn't.
So they miss the volumes of good information, resulting in questions like, whats the red button for?
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2944
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 08:54 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Such as a link direct to Search under the existing link in the ALSC main menu item?
Andrew Meiers
TryHard
Victoria
V8, ST

Posts: 270
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 04:34 pm, by:  Andrew Meiers (Acmtt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As i understand it i have to go to TOPICS -> ALSC Archive -> Click ALSC Archive then search. A four step procedure.

I may be going about it wrong. But for new members that are likely to ask the same questions that are always asked then they are not likley to find it at all.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2945
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 06:03 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Newbies that ask the same old questions usually haven't even bothered to do a search on the main SC forum. I could cut it back to 3 clicks by adding another link at step 3 though. Done.
Adam Brown
TryHard
QLD
Soarer TT Manual

Posts: 113
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, January 16, 2006 - 06:00 pm, by:  Adam Brown (82ajb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damien: Tyre pressure. Think about it...
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
1991 UZZ30 GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2085
Reg: 05-2005

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Monday, January 16, 2006 - 06:38 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who's a tramp?.............what's her address?
Steve Latimer
Tinkerer
VIC
UZZ32

Posts: 60
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, January 16, 2006 - 06:44 pm, by:  Steve Latimer (Latsus) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sven und Axel.... they not becoming trampz, but they are lokking for ewe, Don.
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
1991 UZZ30 GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2094
Reg: 05-2005

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Monday, January 16, 2006 - 07:30 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Baaaaa!........I am feeling Sheepish!.

OR anything else with a pulse!!!!

Andrew Meiers
TryHard
Victoria
V8, ST

Posts: 276
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:46 pm, by:  Andrew Meiers (Acmtt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Peter, thats one step better.
Damian Ware
Tinkerer
Victoria
Camry

Posts: 35
Reg: 10-2005

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Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 06:09 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adam I know it is the tyre pressure but that is dangerously low.

Even for the drag strip where you are trying to get maximum grip just on take off I cant see how going that low will achieve this. Given that the tyres are the point of contact with the road they are the most crucial suspension component without good tyres and the correct pressure the best suspension in the world is useless.

At 24psi the tyres could become that spongy that they are also adding to the problem.

Even 32psi is low even though it is the recommended on most cars it can cause damage to tyres.

I am currently running my tyres at 41psi front and 39psi rear. In the winter I drop them back a few to get a bit more grip while braking.

If I am incorrect about the tyre pressure for the drag strip please correct me.
Andrew Meiers
TryHard
Victoria
V8, ST

Posts: 285
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 07:19 pm, by:  Andrew Meiers (Acmtt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its common for drag racers to have less than 20 psi in their tyres. They use slicks that have a soft compound and high walls. The tyre twists up under launch and unfurls as it gathers speed. I have heard of pressures as low as 16psi.
Its debateable how much difference it makes with street tyres.
Dan McColl
DieHard
Victoria
UZZ-32 V8 Soarer #138

Posts: 607
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:56 am, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As with everything, you have to experiment to find out what gives you the best results. This can only be achieved by listening to advice and then experimenting.
Simon Triantafillou
TryHard
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 458
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 01:08 am, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As Andrew rightly mentions, low pressures are used in true drag circumstances. A set of tyres I'll be purchasing shortly come with an instruction manual which states that for the width and profile of this particular tyre and the weight of the Soarer, I should run 16psi. It all depends on what you're running and the proper settings/specs for the situation.
Chris Davey
TryHard
QLD
Corona

Posts: 312
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 02:40 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FYI a doorslammer runs with 6-6.5psi in the tyres and about 60psi in the engine :-)
Craig Webber
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 257
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 04:44 pm, by:  Craig Webber (Soarr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damian
You don't defeat your tyres to get grip in the wet.You already have your tyres set for best grip 40psi for wet & dry.
Damian Ware
Tinkerer
Victoria
Camry

Posts: 41
Reg: 10-2005

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 09:14 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You do actually. The higher psi reduces the contact patch but the tyre is stiffer and deforms less while cornering thus produces more grip while cornering.

The reduced contact path also reduces rolling resistance but affects grip in a straight line for either braking or accelerating.
David Henderson
TryHard
Nsw
TT

Posts: 336
Reg: 08-2007

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Monday, January 07, 2013 - 11:30 am, by:  David Henderson (Hendo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've just fixed my axle tramp problem. I did it in stages and here are my results:

sub frame support bushes: not a big difference in tramp.

Replace HSDs with bilsteins- no difference

I got jack of tramp so I bought the diff pinion support bush set (superpro), new donut(thanks Omar) and a tube of sikaflex 227

I installed the bushes and used the sika to fill all the voids in the subframe, diff (ears) and donut. Also installed a new bolt in the diff rear, one had shaken loose (!!) then did a fastener check all round. Also re installed the HSDs

After 3 days (sika cure time) I took it for a spin. it still tramped! then remembered the damping adjustment on the HSDs was not set. Turned them up to 6 clicks (clockwise) and another road test revealed tramp was gone!

time for a motorkhana :-)

Additional info: I run 275 rear tyres (Falken FK452s) which, as I understand- wider tyres promote tramp. Rear ride height is 350mm cwg, I would prefer higher clearance.
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo
QLD
JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black!

Posts: 1292
Reg: 04-2006

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Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 08:45 am, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi David,

Could you post pics of the sicaflex install and the bushes that you replaced to give me a better idea of what you did please?

Cheers, Tai
David Henderson
TryHard
Nsw
TT

Posts: 337
Reg: 08-2007

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Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 11:58 am, by:  David Henderson (Hendo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have great pics but I'll explain it.

The voids in the rear diff support bushes, diff ear bushes and tailshaft donut allow movement. I used Sikaflex 227 to fill the voids (after a thorough cleaning)

The Sika 227 has a similar flexibility to the stick rubber, and sticks very well. It is often used to repair bushes and engine mounts- the web has loads of examples of it.

There's a few tricks to doing it though. Because 227 is a humidity cure polyurethane sealant (unlike standard silicone)it sets faster in wet/ humid weather. The thickness of applied filler really affects cure time. I did the job in halves- filled one side of the rear diff mounts one day, waited 2 days, then did the other side.

It takes a while to do properly (cure times and removing the diff) but is well worth it. No more tramp for me :-)

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