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James Paton
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 10
Reg: 12-2009

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 08:18 am, by:  James Paton (Mys013) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys,

Ive had this annoying issue since I have owned the car and it is really bothering me now. When the car is cold and I go to start it for the first time, it will crank and crank and refuse to start, the next turn of the key it will crank and start no worries(although sometimes rough). This will happen without fail, the car will only start first go when it is warm.

What I usually do when it is cold is turn the key and let it crank for a split second and then off and then start it again and it will kick over.

any ideas?
Matt Shields
Tinkerer
VIC
V8

Posts: 59
Reg: 01-2010

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 12:30 pm, by:  Matt Shields (Smokeyvip) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

when you do get it going when cold, does it idle up over 1k? or does it stay low, around 600?

if it doesn't get over 1k then i'd be looking for a cold start valve blockage. that being said, i dont even know if the 1uzfe uses a cold start or if its done through the throttle butterfly. if so, clean your throttle body.

another thing to try, is turn the key to acc for a little while, and let the fuel pump prime - you'll hear it whirr, then stop. then turn the key. also try a little throttle opening to try 'catch' it when u turn the key - but that's not a solution to whatever is causing the problem just a way around it.

the fact that it's starting fine when warm makes me think firstly cold start system....could be sticking shut. but the fact that its starting second time every time when cold, makes me think fuel. investigate and put findings up for others.
Chris Doolan
Tinkerer
TAS
Celsior

Posts: 36
Reg: 06-2009

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 12:56 pm, by:  Chris Doolan (Dingaling) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

perhaps not holding pressure in the fuel lines sitting overnight.

When you take the petrol cap off, does it release pressure when your filling up at the service station? if not maybe the petrol cap is leaking.

I had this issue with my supra, took ages to start. (prime the fuel system and build up pressure in the fuel rail.)
Boris Siljanoski
DieHard
Western Australia
Soarer GZ20 TT

Posts: 581
Reg: 11-2007

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 04:13 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have this problem too.

Possible causes.

1. Check valve in fuel pump not working causing fuel to leak back into the tank. Try replace the fuel pump. From what I understand it's ok for the pressure to drop, but as long as there is still fuel present in the line it's ok as pressure is restored once you crank.

2. Maybe there could be a restriction in the fuel filter causing problems, try replace the fuel filter.

3. The cold start injector could be leaking fuel into the manifold slowly. To check this take it out, turn the car on for a while then turn it off, you can then watch for signs of fuel.

4. Fuel Pressure Regulator.

5. Injectors leaking fuel over night, clean injectors.

6. It could be a possibility that valve stem seals are leaky, causing oil to pool up into the cylinder and when started it may have a hard time starting.

7. Maybe the fuel pump ECU, I remember people having problems with starting the car while it's warm, what about cold?
James Paton
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 11
Reg: 12-2009

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 07:13 am, by:  James Paton (Mys013) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys... thanks for the responses.

It does idle up to 1k+ after it has been started. Throttle body has been pulled off and cleaned thoroughly.

Petrol cap has been replaced and it does release pressure when filling up at the station.

One thing I havent touched yet is the fuel pump, it was on my mind as a cause. Fuel filter was changed about a month ago. Never thought about FPR. Injectors have been removed and cleaned a few months ago. Will check out the other options listed... its starting to get annoying now.

Thanks for the ideas!
David Barnes
TryHard
Qld
Celsior V8

Posts: 424
Reg: 06-2008

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 10:59 am, by:  David Barnes (Toyota_celsior) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every celsior I have own has had start stumble, Cleaning the idle control valve always helps. But never eliminated the problem.

Still remove and clean idle control valve.

Also soarer boys get this problem all the time, fuel pump ecu plays up, can be tells if thats the problem by bridging some terminals in the diagnosis port. (not sure which one, quick seach on this site would tell you) But that is not a fix, just a way to tell if its not working as it should, you will still require a replacement fuel pump ecu for saftey reasons.
Bob O'Brien
Tinkerer
Vic.
2 x '90 Celsior V8

Posts: 60
Reg: 04-2007

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 12:08 pm, by:  Bob O'Brien (Barcode) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have 2 Celsiors and like David have the same starting problem in both. I have cleaned the idle control valve in one of them and it helped but did not cure the problem completely.

I did read somewhere that the capacitors in the ECU leak eventually and that replacing them helps starting problems.
Boris Siljanoski
DieHard
Western Australia
Soarer GZ20 TT

Posts: 591
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 01:13 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Celsior doesn't have that problem, My Soarer does though.

The fuel pump ECU since it's a common problem is a good place to start. Maybe changing the ISCV can help, as sometimes bearings become problems in them maybe causing slow operation?

Or overtime i've read that they develop a high resistance causing intermittent problems.
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

Posts: 2846
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 07:20 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Before you crank it tomorrow morning, turn the key to ACC or ON , (i.e. just before the starter kicks in). Then turn it back to off, and repeat four or five times. Then crank it over.

This should get the fuel pump to operate and prime the rail and CSI for ignition. See if it works.
Boris Siljanoski
DieHard
Western Australia
Soarer GZ20 TT

Posts: 598
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 08:48 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do the 1uz and 1jz engines turn on the fuel pump when on ACC/ON ?

I know my 1g-gte will only power on the pump when there is airflow.
James Paton
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 13
Reg: 12-2009

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Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 07:46 am, by:  James Paton (Mys013) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok the first thing I tried this morning was to crank with my foot on the accelerator... it kicked over pretty well. Tomorrow ill try what Aaron suggested and see what happens.

Sounds like its pointing to something fuel related.

Thanks guys!
James Walker
Tinkerer
VIC
V8

Posts: 77
Reg: 12-2008

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Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 07:15 pm, by:  James Walker (Jimmywalker) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the cold start injector does block up take it out and get it cleaned make sure its pluged in
Juan Hutinel
Tinkerer
S.A.
Celsior UCF10

Posts: 100
Reg: 07-2007

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Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 10:26 pm, by:  Juan Hutinel (Juanted) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just my 2 cents worth. My celsior had the exact same problem, drove me crazy for 2 months. In fact, I read this thread looking for help. I tried every suggestion. A quick diagnostic showed code 12. Rpm signal 1. Checked my cam position sensor and found a bare wire. Wrapped it in electrical tape, starts up perfectly now. Even on a cold morning! Worth checking.
James Paton
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 20
Reg: 12-2009

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 03:15 pm, by:  James Paton (Mys013) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting, thanks ill check it out.
Tom Richards
TryHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 353
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 10:54 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

go to the diagnostics port and short between FP and B+. (this applies 12v direct to the fuel pump)

If it starts ok, then the fuel ecu is faulty.
Bob O'Brien
Tinkerer
Vic.
2 x '90 Celsior V8

Posts: 67
Reg: 04-2007

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Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 08:09 am, by:  Bob O'Brien (Barcode) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom
Presumably you short FP and B+, then start the car and then remove the short. Correct?
Andrew Ferres
Goo Roo
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '89 Crown Wagon V8, '84 Soarer V8

Posts: 1264
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 04:51 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no fuel pump ecu on a celsior
Tom Richards
TryHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 356
Reg: 08-2005

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Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 06:04 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump. andrew above says the celsior does not have the fuel pump ecu.

You leave the link in on the soarer an drun on the full 12v until you replace the ecu.

you can maybe measure the voltage at FP .
Ben Rowe
Newbie
Queensland
V8

Posts: 5
Reg: 06-2010

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Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 10:47 am, by:  Ben Rowe (Blinga) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had issues like that. Need a boot of gas to get it to fire over. The bearings in the idle bypass valves were seized in the normal idle position. Where as cold start the valve opens that fraction more for higher idle say round 1k.. Pull the unit apart and press off the old bearings replace with new. The bearings only cost about $3.50 each. Just take em into a bearing shop they are a common size. When you re install the idle bypass make sure its fully open. use plenty of anti seize on it and it should work a treat. Cheaper than sourcing another unit. Easy fix to do.
James Paton
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 21
Reg: 12-2009

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Friday, July 16, 2010 - 04:25 pm, by:  James Paton (Mys013) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ben, ill check that out. Having a few problems now :-(

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