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Leigh Kuilboer
Tinkerer
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 52
Reg: 10-2005

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Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 02:23 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Guys,

First off no I haven't searched, I'm away from home atm so I can't spend much time on the net. So sorry for all you search nazi's in advance! :-)

So I'm getting to the point where I think i need to start looking at my fuel system. Since I've got on here I've notice its all about the 440's.

My end aim 300-325rwkw (depending ;) ) but thats a little furth down the track. atm I'll be running the stock turbs so I'd like some thing thats not too expensive but can handle lower power (230rwkr) and my high end aspirations (325rwkw max, but i dont want to be going over 85-90% duty cycle for this).

So what are the popular options? Any stockies I can use? will i need more then 550? according to the injector site chris posted they recommend 590cc ish. Ebay US has some good priced 620cc's sposed to be a drop in for both the 2jz and 1jz tho that sounds sus? I've heard that the US 2jz use 550s with in built resistors but yeah.

Anyway any gems of information you have would be awesome! thanx heaps guys!
Benjamin Burgess
TryHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 494
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 02:14 am, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

550cc injectors would be about 329rwkw at close to 100%, so its too close. Just get 650cc jets that sard make, there drop in replacements (high resistance type), but you need to fit new plugs that are supplied. Its not a hard job, just takes time to fit them, and factory ecu can run them fine in closed loop.
Leigh Kuilboer
Tinkerer
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 54
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 04:10 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much would the sards set me back? I've got a PFC so I don't need to worry about the factory ecu running them.

The new plugs, do you need to cut the loom to suit? or do they clip off? I'd rather have some thing that is reversable in case I squeezed by the fuzz.
Benjamin Burgess
TryHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 495
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Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 04:33 pm, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I paid $650 for my ones. They were new in box unopened, but second hand. New new ones from greenline i think are close to $750. You need to cut the connectors off from the loom and put on new connectors for the injectors. The plugs are basically the factory ones in reverse. So if you wanted to, you could put factory ones back, but the locking clip wouldn't work as it would be on the opposite side if that makes sense.

Only way you'll get 600cc+ injectors that are direct plug on with absolutely no changes required would be to get the stock injectors high flowed. Costs about $100 per injector to do. I've done this before on my last car, but your better off with brand spankers.
Justin Cook
TryHard
QLD
JZZ30 TT

Posts: 428
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 01:25 pm, by:  Justin Cook (Justin) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben you are sure the factory ECU can run the 650's in closed loop? I didn't know that.

I have the Sard 650's from Greenline they are $605 without shipping.
Benjamin Burgess
DieHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 503
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Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 03:45 pm, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah its worked for me. Its good if you have to limp home if a problem occurs.
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

Posts: 933
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 04:53 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Justin, the stock ecu can correct quiet a big injector in closed loop (oxygen sensor input).
Open loop though, different story.

It'll run rich for a while though, until it -needs- to lean it out past the oxygen sensor stoich point. After that it will still run rich until this same condition needs to be met. Thats actually quiet often, just cruising down the street once the engines warm for example.

The thing is idle quality might suffer a bit when the engines first started because the ECU doesnt, at idle i dont think it 'hunts' the mixture when the cars first on. Once it warmed up, it will richen it if it sees that its leaning out. I can see this happening when playing with the emanage by subtracting 10% fuel at idle, it runs rough for 1-2 seconds then smoothens out again :-) essentially the ECU see's the AFR's gone over 14.7:1 and it dumps in more and more fuel until the air fuel ratio goes under 14.7:1 again.
Thats the point right there, if its already under 14.7:1 the ecu cant tell how much under until its hunting for a lean ratio. This is supposed to happen at idle, but i cant tell if my cars doing it. Some cars you can tell because the engine revs oscillate about 50rpm. Maybe my oxy sensors karked it or ecu's suffering of old age who knows.

I need to clean my ISCV anyways, idle is 580-620rpm with the heater and headlights on.. Too damn low. Still smooth till ~530rpm after a reset though, hi-5 toyota :-)
Leigh Kuilboer
Tinkerer
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 55
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 01:13 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanx for the Info guys, I might have my hands on cheap set of 44o's so if thats the case I'll stick with them untill i need to upgrade.

Other wise there a heap of injectors on ebay US going for $360~ USD which isn't too bad basicaly $5-550 odd delivered in 640 - 720 and 800. Might look into them. Any one Brought or heard about these? I think they are Venom or fang?
Paul Irwin
Trader
NSW
GT-T (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 251
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 01:21 pm, by:  Paul Irwin (Rival) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

14.7:1... didnt think it would wait that long before considering it lean.
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

Posts: 945
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Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 02:59 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why?

Low emission vehicles run 15:1 - 17:1 under light throttle cruise conditions.

Your generic commodore does too.

In fact, thats one of the many advantages of electronic fuel injection. Also the whole point of having an oxygen sensor in the first place.

Air fuel ratios and ignition are faaaaaar more complex than "12:1" with an safc unfortunately.
Marc Vipond
Tinkerer
Queensland
Soarer TT JZZ30

Posts: 86
Reg: 05-2006

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Friday, June 16, 2006 - 12:07 am, by:  Marc Vipond (04awe) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm interested in the e-bay ones too they sound too good to be true though :-(
Leigh Kuilboer
Tinkerer
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 56
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, June 16, 2006 - 04:39 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They seem ok. Havent Quized him on them but they are high impednce 'Drop ins' so its sounds ok. I'm not ready purchase so i haven't worried about them.
Shane Ilich
Goo Roo
W.A.
Manual Single T

Posts: 1292
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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 09:11 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Leigh Kuilboer wrote on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 01:13 pm:

Other wise there a heap of injectors on ebay US going for $360~ USD which isn't too bad basicaly $5-550 odd delivered in 640 - 720 and 800. Might look into them. Any one Brought or heard about these? I think they are Venom or fang?





Marc Vipond wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 12:07 am:

I'm interested in the e-bay ones too they sound too good to be true though :-(





Leigh Kuilboer wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 04:39 pm:

They seem ok. Havent Quized him on them but they are high impednce 'Drop ins' so its sounds ok. I'm not ready purchase so i haven't worried about them.




DO NOT TOUCH THESE INJECTORS, OR TLFPERFORMANCE AS A SELLER AT ALL!!!!!!!

See here -
http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/287/97249.html?1162290300
Leigh Kuilboer
TryHard
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 113
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 08:00 am, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I found that on supraforum US a few weeks back when a did a little extra research. Sorry I shoulda posted when I found out.
Shane Ilich
Goo Roo
W.A.
Manual Single T

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:52 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would the STi "pink" injectors be a suitable option for the 1JZ?

Was having a chat with a mate last night, he's a WRX nut, and he informed me that the STi injectors found in the 2006 Aus-spec Sti and the 2004-2006 US-spec STi's are in fact side feed high impedance 565cc injectors.

**pic removed as it may have been of the wrong injector**

Is there a standard injector size (ie length x diameter)?? I'm assuming the plugs might have to be changed??
Leigh Kuilboer
TryHard
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 125
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:55 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your mates smoking. They're top side feed going by that pic.

Side Feed has a Basket around the mid section just up from the metal 'head'.
Benjamin Burgess
DieHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 780
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:58 pm, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats a top feed injector. You'd need a whole new injector rail built to suit these on a 1jz. They also have different spray pattern that may not suit a toyota 1jz. Better off sticking with sards as they have the same pattern as stockers up to 650cc and they slot straight in.
Shane Ilich
Goo Roo
W.A.
Manual Single T

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 02:29 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Leigh Kuilboer wrote on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:55 pm:

Your mates smoking. They're top side feed going by that pic.

Side Feed has a Basket around the mid section just up from the metal 'head'.




It's possible I may have thrown up the incorrect pic to illustrate - I just did a google pic search and threw the first decent one up that I found. Joe knows his stuff, so if he says there is an STi injector that is side feed, I believe him.


Benjamin Burgess wrote on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:58 pm:

They also have different spray pattern that may not suit a toyota 1jz. Better off sticking with sards as they have the same pattern as stockers up to 650cc and they slot straight in.




Yeah, cheers Ben - hadnt considered spray pattern. I guess the Sards are going to be the way I have to go - was just trying to see if there were any other options, as finding a reasonably priced set of injectors higher than 440cc is proving to be difficult at the moment.
Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT)

Posts: 1232
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Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 03:14 pm, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shane, is this the one your mate is talking about?

Upload


Sorry if this is the same picture you posted up mate, I didn't actually get to see it since you removed it.
Leigh Kuilboer
TryHard
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 126
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 05:10 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chill dude I wasn't having a go. Just telling you that if that is the injector then he is wrong.

Vinh yeah that's basically then one he showed.
Danny Dinh
TryHard
Victoria
GT T

Posts: 156
Reg: 11-2005

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 05:58 pm, by:  Danny Dinh (Xtc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it is a top feed item.
Steven Nanevski
DieHard
NSW
HKS 264/264 Cams are in, Cheering....

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Monday, November 27, 2006 - 06:05 pm, by:  Steven Nanevski (Imprestik) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I just need a little more clarification when it comes to injectors, I need someone to fill in the blanks for me.

Firstly, What does the ampediance mean when installing the injectors?? and what ampediance do soarer run their injectors at??

Reason being I have 2 sets of injectors here, standard 440cc supra ones and a set of 550cc Sard ones with resisitor packs.

I want to install the 550cc ones but how difficult are they to install with the resistor packs??

Secondly, is there anything over the standard supra 440cc injectors that I can purchase and install without having resistor packs installed with them?? Or are the 440cc ones the highest you can go without then having to install resister packs.

Also I am presuming we install resistor packs with larger injectors because the resistors need the decrease the amount of ampendiance the injector requires??

Now I'm confusing myself as I write this, if someone can shed some light, that would be good.
Danny Dinh
TryHard
Victoria
GT T

Posts: 158
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Monday, November 27, 2006 - 06:15 pm, by:  Danny Dinh (Xtc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sard 650 or 800 drops straight in without the need of resistors.
Leigh Kuilboer
TryHard
Vic
JZA70 Supra (1JZ-GTE)

Posts: 127
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, November 27, 2006 - 06:37 pm, by:  Leigh Kuilboer (Requiem) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The resistors are to change the impedence. So depending on where the sards you have are low or high impedence, is whether or not you need those resistors ;) as far as installing the resistors, no idea. Injectors are easy, tho.

I think Josh on here builds resistors for injectors... he might be the best person to ask...
Shane Bradley
Tinkerer
WA
Supra JZA70 LTD

Posts: 54
Reg: 11-2005

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 01:51 pm, by:  Shane Bradley (Endless) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Easiest thing is to test the 2 pin electrical connector on the injector itself with a multimeter - if it's below 8 or so it's low impedance, above 12 high impedance.

Jap 1JZ & 2JZ are high impedance stock, so you will find that the 440's are high and most Sard drop ins are as well, safest way would be to check them as above.

For the record, i tested my Sard 550cc's and they were something like 14.7

Hope that helps. :-)
Danny Dinh
TryHard
Victoria
GT T

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 07:08 pm, by:  Danny Dinh (Xtc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

US 2JZs are low impedance. I'm using them in my car now. I built the resistor pack (copied the idea from Manny) and been using them for almost 3 years and have no problems with them. It costed me close to $100 though. Let me find my receipt and tell you the part number
Luis Ramirez
TryHard
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 121
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 12:04 am, by:  Luis Ramirez (Lui) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While on the subject of injectors. Are the stock 380cc yellow injectors in the 1jz able to fit any other car? Would they be an upgrade to any other engine? Just asking because most of us that upgrade end up having a set sitting around doing nothing, if they can be an upgrade to someone else that would be good.
Michael Keen
DieHard
nsw
Soarer TT

Posts: 900
Reg: 10-2007

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Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 02:41 pm, by:  Michael Keen (Spoilt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think they they same as the 3sgt series motor cheers

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