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  Soarer Central * Mechanical - V8 * Timing belt slipping , crankshaft pulley 0 mark 180 degrees off Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 72
Reg: 03-2010

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Friday, September 09, 2016 - 10:18 am, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as the title suggest, I am leaning towards this scenario at the moment, but need confirmation before trying to adjust the timing belt,

I had an oil leak under engine which was getting worse as time goes by and at one point I used a dye to see where it originates , and it looked like a leak just under the crankshaft ( a plastic black cover just under the crankshaft area), I am thinking the crankshaft seal.

before it get worse and the car starting running rich , rough, knocking, misfiring, vibrating , no power on take off , surging, rattling on accelerating as if was running on 2 cylinders.

before all this, I though it was the MAF sensor, since when I disconnect the sensor , it would get much better but still not as should be.

I pulled the distributor housing and found right cam sensor covered in engine oil, I cleaned it and cleaned all spark plugs, and wires.



I noticed that the timing belt marks on both cams do line up on engine as they should, but, when they do, the crankshaft notch mark does not line on the 0 mark on the engine timing cover, and it is almost at the bottom of the pulley at 180 degrees opposite to where it should be,


does that sound like the oil caused the timing belt to slip 180 degrees and that is the problem.

I heard that they slip a tooth or 2, but to go 180 degrees, how many teeth did the belt slip, must have been a lot a oil at the crank.

should I look at new coils, plugs, wires replacement or correct the cams position mismatch with the crank as they rotate on the belt.

note, it is the uzz32 here


thanks
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo
QLD
JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black!

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Friday, September 09, 2016 - 11:08 am, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More likely that your timing on the cams was set wrong when they changed the timing belt? or it could possibly be that the harmonic balancer / crankshaft keyway may have been damaged before and bee re-cut 180 degrees out?

It doesn't explain your bad running, but like you, i doubt it could slip that far and still run..
Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 73
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Friday, September 09, 2016 - 11:55 am, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had the car for 6 years and it was running very good for at least first 4 years, I don't know the history of the car or when the timing belt was done if it was ever, so that is not a possibility,

but the other keyway thing is interesting as I was hoping the notch on crankshaft is critical and no way it will go with the pulley except in one way on the shaft, now I am more puzzled.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

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Friday, September 09, 2016 - 01:04 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

pull the engine to TDC on the harmonic balancer. check where the 2 disti rotors are pointing. there is a mark on the disti housing. If the rotors are 180" out, pull the engine around again to line up the harmonic balancer on TDC again and check the rotors are lined up.
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 /Pajero sport

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Friday, September 09, 2016 - 07:52 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once they have been lined up ,it takes more than two revolutions to line up again
Tim Schroeter
TryHard
NSW
V8, V8, V8

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Friday, September 09, 2016 - 08:36 pm, by:  Tim Schroeter (790) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The timing marks will line up with their relevant indicators every 2nd revolution of the crankshaft. Take no notice of the marks on the belt unless you are installing a new one. When was the belt replaced? Should be every 100k. Best practice is to replace cam seals, water pump, tensioner & idler bearings when you do the belt, leaking or not. Wont run if more than a couple teeth out. Sounds more like a faulty ecu.
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo
QLD
JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black!

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Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 08:13 am, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The cams spin at 1/2 of the crank speed as Tom, Tim and Dave are saying, but I don't think the cams should ever line up with the markers when the crank is 180 out.

Unless you are looking at the wrong marks?

I'm tending to agree with Tim. I think the problem is not related to timing as I can't see it running at all with it as you say it is (unless the crank has been re-cut)

Have you checked for trouble codes?
Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 75
Reg: 03-2010

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Monday, September 12, 2016 - 04:49 pm, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

O.K., so I assumed it was the timing since I had the oil leak getting very bad, I bought the gates timing belt kit over a year and was putting it off while I find how to do the service, can't find a uzz32 specific tutorial.

anyway, I was driving 2 weeks ago, no power, rattling, shaking, ignition going up, down as if ignition is out or missing, suddenly smoke came out of engine more towards passenger side, I stopped turned off engine and waited a few minutes to cool, then assumed it was the oil dropping on hot muffler and burning.

a couple of days ago, I took it for a drive after cleaning, de greasing disi housing , spark plugs, wires, after pushing the engine a bit to see if cleaning have improved the power, it came up with electrical system efi 31


yesterday, I reread all opinions how the timing wasn't likely to be the issue and belt unlikely to have jump .

so took the car for a test, lack of power on take off and accelerating, rattling of engine, and ignition which seems to go up and down, when pushed the engine and floored it, it would respond although gradually and I would reach 80 to 90 km anyway, this test tell me it wasn't the ignition coils or sparks . etc and I wasn't running on 4 cylinders on one coil.

Arriving back at my house, a whole lot of smoke under car engine passenger side, but this time I quickly looked under car to see where it came from , and I saw passenger side cat as if there is hole in it or and smoking.


So, now right or wrong, it looks like the cat is toast, how much not sure yet, plan to jacking car to look, today weather not encouraging.

so, perhaps, no power, rattle sound was from running rich or lean and cats getting plugged.

A while back I had hesitation, surge, from engine and I assumed it was the maf sensor, since when I disconnect the maf it would get better with response, then again it was running too rich or lean for the cats., I noticed increase in exhaust smoke and bad fuel economy.

I bought a new maf on ebay, an AIP electronics, design was weird as you can see they cut the tower on the Fujitsu unit and exposed the wires and resistors.


Do cats get old and eventually fail.


anyway, what can I do about the cats now, remove and clean, hollow, or can I drive car to exhaust shop, mechanic or more damage if I did, what damage should I expect to other components on car aside from cooking the cats.

what cat for a uzz32 to order, used, new , after market, will they need to weld or if bolted, I can install myself, part number to order , links for cheap alternative,

will post later pictures about timing marks I used on cams which started the thread and see if these are the correct marks or not.
John Street
DieHard
NSW
Supercharged 95 v8 , 2015 VW Jetta TDI, 2009 Saab 9-3 Turbo

Posts: 587
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Monday, September 12, 2016 - 07:54 pm, by:  John Street (Rex2ce) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recapping the main ECU fixes 90% of Soarer problems theses days
Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 76
Reg: 03-2010

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Monday, September 12, 2016 - 08:04 pm, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

l dd recapp Ecu 3 years ago, either it wasn't done properly or some caps failed again,
I guess only uzz32 model ECU will work, which make it more difficult to source, might pull and see if i can spot anything
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo
QLD
JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black!

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Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 08:26 am, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Essentially one side of your engine can't breathe due to the blocked cat.

Just disconnect the exhausts before the cats and see how it runs.

Cats do fail and clog over time. Hollow out and forget about it, or hollow out and take it to a shop to get replaced.

I wouldn't drive it how it is.

Any exhaust shop will do what you ask them to. Weld one in, put one in with flanges etc.
Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 77
Reg: 03-2010

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Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 11:32 pm, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are these the correct cam timing marks on the cam and crank pulleys


photo 1 below

driver side cam (right cam)


Upload




photo 2 below

showing right cam marks lining with housing




Upload



photo 3 below

passenger side cam (left cam)




Upload




photo 4 below

crank pulley

currently this is where the crank pulley notch ends when the cams marks line up with the housing, also, this is where the true dead centre is, ( highest point the screw driver will go at spark plug no 1, twice turning crank it ends here pointing at idler next to it,




Upload



shouldn't the crank top dead center be at the zero mark and meet up with the cams lining at their marks, is my timing still correct somehow or????


Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 78
Reg: 03-2010

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Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 11:35 pm, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tai, Tom, Dave, Tim, john, many thanks for your help,
John Street
DieHard
NSW
Supercharged 95 v8 , 2015 VW Jetta TDI, 2009 Saab 9-3 Turbo

Posts: 589
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Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 07:49 am, by:  John Street (Rex2ce) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok I you use the rotor buttons to check timing, they point to marks on the dizzi body, someone will post a pic
Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 79
Reg: 03-2010

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Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 08:46 am, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

picture below

driver side dizzi housing , rotor pointing at number 8




Upload



picture below

passenger side rotor pointing at number 1, mark on dizi housing not as clear as driver side.






Upload




As car was running fine for years, no timing belt done, even if belt slipped , I can't see how the cams would line together at their marks every full revolution of the cams, therefore must assume the cams are at the correct position,

with the crank being @ 60 to 80 degrees early before the zero mark ( don't know if this position for crank is at compression or exhaust stroke, but I am going by the cams when they line to point the rotors, hope I was clear,


last, would a timing light be helpful for this engine to see were the timing is.


testing spark plug wire cylinder 7, the resistance was very high, over 100k ohms, would that cylinder causing the rich condition and cats damage, I will order new sparks, wires, coils, but was waiting to see if I need oxygen sensors, cats, ect...
John Street
DieHard
NSW
Supercharged 95 v8 , 2015 VW Jetta TDI, 2009 Saab 9-3 Turbo

Posts: 590
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Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 03:59 pm, by:  John Street (Rex2ce) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those rotor buttons are not pointing in the correct position, I'll look through my pics and see if I can post the correct one for you.
Tom Richards where are you
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

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Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 06:28 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

central coast nsw
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

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Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 06:33 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought the rotors looked correct. They point to a mark on the disti housing.

measure all the leads, 100k seems too high. similar length leads should read the same.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

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Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 08:02 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lead resistance in this post.

http://www.planetsoarer.com/penski/ThePenskiFile.html
Oki Zoubari
Tinkerer
south australia
uzz32

Posts: 80
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Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 08:16 am, by:  Oki Zoubari (Oki) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how about the timing , any idea why the cranksaft pulley notch is pointing 50 to 60 degrees earlier and not at zero, I have seen other engines on youtube where they say to put the engine @ 50 degrees BTDC , but with the 1 UZ engine isn't the crank pulley notch supposed to point at zero mark on engine when the cams mark together line at engine housing, anybody can verify this with certainty.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

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Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 10:18 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

when i replaced the timing belt, i had the crankshaft at TDC and the disti rotors lined up on the marks. All was good

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