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Boris Siljanoski
Newbie
Western Australia
Soarer GZ20 TT

Posts: 2
Reg: 11-2007

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Monday, June 02, 2008 - 03:03 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://z20soarer.org/forums/

The Aim is to get all the Z20 owners together in one central community.
Jake Laing
Tinkerer
queensland
gz20 soarer TT & 1jz + r154 z20 soarer :-)

Posts: 38
Reg: 03-2007

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 08:10 am, by:  Jake Laing (Jake_laing) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

im signed up :-) nice site!
Matt Moore
Newbie
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 2
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 02:00 pm, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have recently got myself a 86 soarer not sure if its an mz20 or 21 looking to learn more about them.
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 891
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 03:42 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

21's have airbag suspension, 20's have coil sprung suspension.
Matt Moore
Newbie
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 3
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 03:45 pm, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

right. mine has air suspension on the back but its been disconnected and replaced with coils.took a little out of them yesterday actually. sits much nicer now a little bumpy though.
Matt Moore
Newbie
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 4
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 05:19 pm, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how exactly do you get the cruise control to work in these things?
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 892
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 05:33 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Assuming its actually functioning (ie, is not broken) then you have to turn it on first, and then set it.

I'm not exactly sure where the on switch is, but I've heard that its in a wierd place.
You have to turn it on every time you start the car (ie it turns off when you turn the engine off).

When you turn it on something should appear on the dash light "AutoDrive" or "AD" or something.
Steve Morris
Tinkerer
vic
2.0L TWIN TURBO L- GZ20

Posts: 79
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 05:38 pm, by:  Steve Morris (Purple5ive) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

its on the righ side of the steering wheel near the aircon vent
its called AD im pretty sure
its a big switch you wont miss it

then use the lever on the steering wheel
to set the speed
lift down to set , lift up to cancel
stepping on the brake also cancels the cruise control
Matt Moore
Tinkerer
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 6
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 05:52 pm, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sweet thanks i will give that a go. i wonderer what that AD switch was for...
Matt Moore
Tinkerer
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 7
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 06:04 pm, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

also is there any advantage of a bov on a near stock 7m, currently only running a fcd and boost controller running 16psi. any knowledge on the matter would be appreciated.
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 893
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 06:11 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

16psi ??!!
Has the motor been prepped for this? If not its a ticking time bomb.

Have you checked to see the AFR's at those levels ?


But as for the BOV, the 7M has a BOV stock. Being old though it had a tendency to leak.
New bosch replacements are about $60.
Anything that vents to the atmosphere is a) illegal b) cop bait c) of no performance benefit and d) screws up the AFR's when ever it goes off.
Matt Moore
Tinkerer
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 8
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 06:21 pm, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the head gasket blew in the car after i had it for a week so we took it apart got the head licked and checked the block. put in a cometic gasget and arp studs so this should hold down ok now. i was thinking a hks plumback but if there are no performance gains i may just go for the bosch, are they a straight fit?
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 894
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 06:29 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, I don't know the part number but I've been told its for a SAAB.

Thinking about it thought I don't know if it will handle 16psi.
Steve Morris
Tinkerer
vic
2.0L TWIN TURBO L- GZ20

Posts: 80
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 09:24 am, by:  Steve Morris (Purple5ive) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the 7M motor has a karman vortex afm AFAIK
venting the bov to atmosphere will not make the engine run rich in this case

it only applies to cars equipped with a vane type AFM --- aka in the soarers case 1g-gte engine

but its better to plumb back the bov for emission reasons

bosch will hold althogh if you can afford it hks is better and has a recirculatign fitting so the bov cabn be plumbed back

also when the hg blew did you guys retorque the head to the higher spec than factory
toyota head torque settings are not the best in this case from what ive heard

cheers
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 896
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:08 am, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Steve Morris wrote on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 09:24 am:

venting the bov to atmosphere will not make the engine run rich in this case

it only applies to cars equipped with a vane type AFM --- aka in the soarers case 1g-gte engine



You are thinking of cars with MAP sensors.
Its only MAP sensored cars that the atmo BOV's don't affect.

Karmaan Vortex vs vane AFM has the identical issue in this case.



And if he's used ARP bolts/studs then one would hope he's tensioned them to what ARP recommend. (80ft-lbs from memory)
Matt Moore
Tinkerer
nsw
7mgte

Posts: 11
Reg: 07-2008

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:09 am, by:  Matt Moore (Jet7m) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

is there anything really to be gained by fitting a bov? and yes we did re torque the studs to arp settings from memory it was around 80ftlb but dont quote me on that.
Steve Morris
Tinkerer
vic
2.0L TWIN TURBO L- GZ20

Posts: 81
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:42 am, by:  Steve Morris (Purple5ive) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nah dude

cars with hotwire, map and karman vortex can vent to atmo with causign too much trouble (silvia, skylines, 300zx etc )

even vane type ones can but fuel economy will suffer plus idling issues etc etc

anyway its always good to plumb it back
runnign a bov will prevent compressor surge and lower emissions (epa problem if you get busted)

nothign else to benefit from it

although not runnign one in case will make the turbo flutter (compressor surge) depend if you liek that or not

also the turbo can be spooled easier and smoother with a recirculating bov

cheers
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 897
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 11:33 am, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Steve Morris wrote on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:42 am:

cars with hotwire, map and karman vortex can vent to atmo with causign too much trouble (silvia, skylines, 300zx etc )

even vane type ones can but •• fuel economy will suffer plus idling issues etc etc



Might wanna check that.
The reason why AFM/MAF'd cars have issues with atmo venting BOV's is that the AFM/MAF has metered the air that get vented to the atmo, and thus the ecu expects it to go into the engine and give it the fuel to suit. Given that this air is not actually there the car runs uber rich for the time that the BOV is venting (hence the black puff of smoke). This is only a problem for the short space of time that the BOV is venting.

Both vane and karmaan vortex both have this issue as they measure the air in virtually identical ways. One just has a voltage based output the other a frequency based output. But both measure the amount of air pre turbo.

MAP sensored setups however measure the pressure in the manifold, so it doesn't matter if you have vac leaks or an atmo BOV, the ecu still gives the right fuel for the amount of air in the manifold (assuming it acts fast enough to deal with the BOV).



As for the performance benefits, the only issue with BOV's is that if they leak then you are losing boost. However all this does is make the turbo work harder to get the same PSI.

Its pretty hard to test to see if the BOV is leaking without a dyno though.
Steve Morris
Tinkerer
vic
2.0L TWIN TURBO L- GZ20

Posts: 82
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 11:47 am, by:  Steve Morris (Purple5ive) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes dude i understand how the map, and various afms work

just that for soem reason ive noticed the vane type ones to be the worse of the lot

This is only a problem for the short space of time that the BOV is venting. --- well thats true but have you actually had a look the the amount of air for eg a HKS ssqv can vent

its a load of air and since those bovs are a pull type design than push type they are very very responsive and vent for even the smallest of boost pressure
i personally have on on my car and was shocked to see/hear by placing my hand near the vent even when the car is idling the amount of air it vents is ernomous

so it basically comes down to what bov using
btw- the new ssqv has no tension adjustment either so you cant really do much in terms of adjustment but they are very responsive

but yeah anything venting to atmo is usually useless
unles you want it for the noise
did i mentione the hks one is really loud too lolll

cheers
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 898
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 12:03 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't be surprised if the vane ones are the worst. I also wouldn't be surprised if the flapper went all over the shop when the BOV vents, causing the ecu go 'seriously wtf?'


I thought all BOVs were pull design ? (I presume by pull you mean it uses vacuum to pull the diaphragm up and open the BOV ?)

I know the stock 7M one will vent at any boost (depending on how quickly you shut the throttle off)
Steve Morris
Tinkerer
vic
2.0L TWIN TURBO L- GZ20

Posts: 83
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 12:20 pm, by:  Steve Morris (Purple5ive) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apparently the vane type ones are one of the most accurate types of AFM
Dunno why

Nah most bov are a push design
What u said is also correct in a way but that’s not how they work
The vaccum is used to pull the diaphragm up while car is idling which is why if the bov is loosened too much the vaccum will pull the diagraphm way up higher past the vent and the bov will leak

Anyway vaccum is sueed to pull the diagrphm so that its easier to vent but once the throttle is snapped shut whiel changing gears/decelerating the excess pressure PUSHES the diagraphm up and allows the bov to vent

The hks one is veryhard to explain
It has two diagraphms one for small boost pressures and another one for bigger boost pressures
But pretty much works the opposite of the normal ones by pullin on the diagraphm

Google hks bov diagram and you will see what I mean
It shows how it works very well


with the hks you dont have to quickly get of the throttle even slowly getting off it will let it off its thats good

cheers
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

Posts: 899
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 12:28 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Steve Morris wrote on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 12:20 pm:

The vaccum is used to pull the diaphragm up while car is idling which is why if the bov is loosened too much the vaccum will pull the diagraphm way up higher past the vent and the bov will leak



Ahh, didn't realise this happened. I can see why some BOV's will cause idling issues with AFM/MAF cars.

I would have thought it would have needed a difference in pressure across the diagram for it to vent. I would have thought at idle the pressure would have been the same.
Steve Morris
Tinkerer
vic
2.0L TWIN TURBO L- GZ20

Posts: 84
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, August 01, 2008 - 01:11 pm, by:  Steve Morris (Purple5ive) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the pressure is the same at idle
but try loosening the bov tensioner and see what happens when u give it a small rev

also depends on the bov condition too if they are a one they will usually leak also happens when springs inside have been cut , stretched etc etc

its worse when the cars is suddenly stopped while runnign -- like hard braking wtc can stall the car easily

but yeah venting bovs are usually a pita in some form or other

cheers

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