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Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 415
Reg: 04-2006

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:52 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well after more than two years of planning and ownership of my soarer, the time for boost is finally drawing closer.

All the mods I have done have been with the intention of supercharging. The major mods have been exhaust with SC headers and stand alone engine management (adaptronic).

I'd like this thread to aid people like me who have searched for hours on end for information on supercharging their 1UZ's.

I understand the pro's and cons for each different type of FI and after two years of debate I have chosen the vortech V1 centrifugal path due to it's low cost, low charge temps, ease of inter-cooling and ease of install.

I have a list of things that I still need to do before the install begins and I am hoping that everyone, including the TT guys, throw some of their knowhow on here.

So here we go:-

1) Fuel pump.. I have read many posts on the forums and it's down to the Walbro 341/342 and Bosch 040.. Genuine only. I am aware of the copies.

Will they run off the standard fuel pump ECU? or should I pass it over to the adaptronic to look after?



2) Oil feed and return.. Again I have read bout it, but what are the rules. I have seen a line taken from near the oil filter and returned by drilling into the sump. Are there better ways to do this?



3) Battery relocation.. Are lead acids even allowed in the boot? Or should I be going Optima Red tops or odyssey types?



4) Colder spark plugs.. I have found very little solid info on this.. Only that you should run colder and gap them a little closer if you are going over 8PSI.



5) PCV's, vac lines, breathers, catch cans and seals.. What have you got to do to keep the motor happy with boost and stop it spilling it's guts?


So lets share the information people, more people will do it if they know what to do or at least know what has to be done.

I will be doing a detailed install of this system once I sort out the last few details. What worked, what didn't, and what i'd do differently if I did it again.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3065
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 08:43 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Tai Johnsen wrote on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:52 pm:

4) Colder spark plugs.. I have found very little solid info on this.. Only that you should run colder and gap them a little closer if you are going over 8PSI.




Order some of the Splitfire PLatniums that Neil uses... These are commonly used on alot of Blown Windsors in the US in Mustangs running upwards of 800hp :-)
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac and a Supercharged Manual V8

Posts: 4466
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 04:49 am, by:  Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Daniel,
But I use Autolite now :-)

Tai,
Your BIGGEST support / help will be from whoever you buy your setup from ( Or so it should be )

I don't help anymore with technical advise on Supercharging ( because it is always with someone elses setup )

Sorry to be this way mate, but, thats business for ya :-)
Gianni Matrogiannis
TryHard
nsw
SC400 V8

Posts: 172
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 07:07 am, by:  Gianni Matrogiannis (Gianni) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tai

1/ spot on about this, i havent heard of the walbro 342 but im guessing its similar to the bosch, ONLY USE GENUINE.

2/ Oil feed take that from the oil pressure switch with a T-piece. oil return either drill your sump or use a banjo bolt and have it feed through the sump plug,

3/Lead acid batteries are allowed in the boot, you must have a battery box.

4/ plugs - go two steps colder

5/ install a catch can to stop the block from pressurising.

use the adaptronic to trigger a relay to run the pump.

hope that helps
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 416
Reg: 04-2006

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 06:40 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First up, thanks for the replies guys.

As far as I know the 342 is a slightly bigger brother to the 341.. Something in my head says "use the bosch luke....." I think it will be worth the little extra.

I'm fine with running this off of the adap, but can it be run off the factory? (for people without management)

I was planning on taking the oil feed from the pressure switch with a T-piece, but I wasn't so happy to drill the sump. Using a Banjo bolt on the sump sounds like a stupidly simple and effective method to me.. Thanks George :-) .. Are there any drawbacks doing it this way?

Lead acid battery in the boot no problems, plenty if stuff on the net about how-to.. Thanks mate

Plugs..... 2 steps colder I get, but I have read that Platinum plugs should never ever ever ever be used for boosted applications.. So it's not just as easy as saying, oh I have a BE9ES, I'll get a BE7ES.. Neil mate, care to hit me with a part number? I'll most likely get them through you anyway..

Catch can.. So I just run a pipe from both rocker covers to a catch can? PCV in each line? What about just using little filters?

I think there are vacuum lines that run to the power-steer for idle up which should be blocked..

Neil, I understand what you are saying, and that is absolutely true, the person you buy a kit from should support your install. But that doesn't mean that the information can't be out there for someone who isn't buying a kit. It would save you from regurgitating the same information out over and over again if they already knew what they had to do.

If you are a cheque-book racer with wads of money you say here is my car, make it go fast. If you have less money you say neil, can you supply me with a kit and support my install? Fair enough right..

But there are people like me who just enjoy working on their car and who aren't prepared to throw upward of 6k at someone when you know you can do it yourself for less and learn about your car along the way.

Take the exhaust for example... HEAPS of info on the site about which exhaust works and pics etc etc. The people like me still go to you to buy the extractors.. We just know what we want and what we have to do.. You still win.. I'm not asking for trade secrets which will destroy companies and profits. Just general information regarding supercharging that people can use if they want.

I just seems that there is a crazy amount of info about performance and setup's with the TT guys, but as soon as you mention boost and V8, everyone gets tight lipped. /Shrug

Anyway, enough of a rant, I don't want this to be about politics. Just good old information..

It would be great if this thread could be "the guide to V8 FI' and be a permanent sticky thread or something you know..
Rauli Wise
Newbie
NSW
Looking at V8's to buy

Posts: 2
Reg: 01-2008

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Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:16 am, by:  Rauli Wise (Rauli) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey mate best of luck. I'm planning to go down this road myself one day, so i'll be watching this thread closely :-)

How much power are you aiming for?

The tech articles on Lextreme are really good.
http://www.lextreme.com/tech_FI.html. There's even a "how to" for an oil line and PCV... score!
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 419
Reg: 04-2006

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Friday, February 29, 2008 - 07:13 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rauli,

To be honest I don't really care what power I get. All I want to do is hurtle down the 1/4 mile strip in about 12 seconds and be going stupidly fast across the line :-)

Having said that though, I think 250RWKW is achievable straight off the batt...

Peak figures will always be pretty good because it's centrifugal. I'm not really worried about down low power and torque... All I want it to do is go nuts from 3000RPM.. :-)

I've read a fair bit off Lextreme, there is some great info there. Thanks for the link ;)
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3080
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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 09:54 am, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Tai Johnsen wrote on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 07:13 pm:

I'm not really worried about down low power and torque




This will effect 1/4 mile times badly if its not something your concerned with! Just ask some TT guys with single conversions still running 13's with over 260-270rwkw mate :-)
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 420
Reg: 04-2006

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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:50 am, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fair enough, but as far as I know the UZ has more low end torque than the JZ to begin with, let alone a big single lag monster.

If you are stalling it up to 2800RPM and then launching and each gear uses say 4000RPM to red-line, how can anything below 2800RPM effect your time?

As long as it was a low 13 i'd still be happy :-)

UPDATE: I got the Bosch 040 in-tank fuel pump.
Brett Moloney
DieHard
Queensland
Supercharged UZZ31

Posts: 685
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 02:42 pm, by:  Brett Moloney (Lxsv8) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would'nt mind doing some side by side runs with you at Willowbank once you are set up Tai. You will not regret the addition of forced injection.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3081
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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 02:59 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Tai Johnsen wrote on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 10:50 am:

how can anything below 2800RPM effect your time?




Easy... Alot of single turbo Soarers will make full boost of 18-20psi with a good ball bearing T3 style turbo, at about 3600-4000... They then run 2.3-2.6 60 footers..

There goes more than 1 second from your 1/4 mile..

However, while you may think the 1uz has more torque down low than a stock tt soarer, you far from the truth. I guarantee my stock turbo'd TT would make way more torque @ 3000rpm off the line than any v8 could. I can make up to 10psi on a launch @ 3000rpm on stockies, which kills it down low.

With that aside though, a Blown V8 is a different story :-) You will not really be lacking alot of down low grunt, specially if you mate it up to a 2600-2800rpm convertor.. You will enjoy every bit of it :-) Neils Silvi8 is pulling some great times with a 2800 convertor.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3082
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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 03:00 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tai, IM not disputing anything here :-) You will probably be very suprised how a Blown v8 will respond down low:-) Ask Brett or even speak with Gianni in Sydney, he is running a Vortech and has some awsome numbers to back it up!
Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 209
Reg: 05-2006

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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 03:24 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

would love to see a timeslip from a vortech blown v8, should be very interesting.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3083
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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 03:37 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GIanni has run 12.1 @ 118mph So far! At wsid.
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 422
Reg: 04-2006

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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 04:04 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brett Moloney wrote on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 02:42 pm:

I would'nt mind doing some side by side runs with you at Willowbank once you are set up Tai. You will not regret the addition of forced injection.




Might be a few months away Brett, but it does sound like a very good idea indeed :-)
Rauli Wise
Newbie
NSW
Looking at V8's to buy

Posts: 3
Reg: 01-2008

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Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 04:18 pm, by:  Rauli Wise (Rauli) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brett Moloney wrote on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 02:42 pm:

I would'nt mind doing some side by side runs with you at Willowbank once you are set up Tai. You will not regret the addition of forced injection.




Here's something close to the Vortech VS TT:
http://www.raptorsc.com.au/files/65.wmv
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 423
Reg: 04-2006

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Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 06:51 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm currently Gearing up for the battery relocation..

For the main protection I'd like to use something like this


Upload


http://www.ryda.com.au/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SANLFH4WPT

or this


Upload


http://www.ryda.com.au/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AP4844

I think 300 amps will suffice... Not sure if the 200 amp circuit breaker will be happy or not? I'm sure it's meant to deal with instantaneous currents over 200 amps, but i'm not even sure what the after initial inrush current will we when turning over..

Opinions?
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac and a Supercharged Manual V8

Posts: 4467
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Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:12 pm, by:  Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok Tai,

250RwKw =

10psi or above ( Cooled )
Complete Engine Management
Injectors
Shift Kit
Stall Converter
LSD

These are minimum requirements.

If I went into detail, other workshops etc can gain knowledge from me !

I am sure you wont find major suppliers spreading the news on what to do.

Best book for reading is Corky Bells on Supercharging.

Look at it this way,
If I didnt tell Gary Nimmo to remove the 315 injectors from his Jordie kit, he was going to remove the blower, as it would not run correct.
This should have advise from his supplier.
The car now works !

I advised another bloke the other day with a Raptor kit that wasnt running correct, to remove the massive injectors it had ( end the piggy back ecu )

I wonder WHY am * I * contacted ? And I didnt sell the kits !

I HAVE stated many times years ago, on what did & did not work.
Over the years I have spent large amounts of money on development / R & D on the Supercharger and components to work / supplement the blower.

BUT,
Everybody has different ideas, because it was read on some other forum etc, etc.

Like your above idea on the circuit breakers ! WHY ?
They ain't there from the factory, so why do you need it when the battery is in the boot ?
( SilV8 runs battery in boot )
Soarer will soon as well.

Also,
I just spent ANOTHER $4,400 on development cost on Supercharging ( Intercooling an M112 )And it still is not complete.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3093
Reg: 03-2006

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Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:20 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that intercooled m112 going on the Silvia Mr Neil ? :-)
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 424
Reg: 04-2006

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Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:36 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neil,

The factory positive has no protection because it doesn't run 5 or so meters along chassis metal that is trying to rub through it's insulation and turn your car into hot hot expensive fire :-)

I think some kind of protection is needed.
Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 212
Reg: 05-2006

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Monday, March 03, 2008 - 10:53 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Daniel Clarke wrote on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 03:37 pm:

GIanni has run 12.1 @ 118mph So far! At wsid.




a time isnt a timeslip, i want to know what the intermediate numbers are like. You know how i feel about centrifugals, I want to see how it actually transforms into real world conditions.
Kim Hunt
Tinkerer
nsw
SC400 GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 47
Reg: 08-2007

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Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 10:05 am, by:  Kim Hunt (Lxtasi) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Neil Griffiths wrote on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:12 pm:

Look at it this way,
If I didnt tell Gary Nimmo to remove the 315 injectors from his Jordie kit, he was going to remove the blower, as it would not run correct.
This should have advise from his supplier.
The car now works !




hi Neil it's Kim form powercruise. how's it going? well anyways.... with the 315cc injectors in the kit from Jordy Skiboat. i have the same kit but i have managed to run my soarer fine with the 315cc injectors. i think it maybe the configuration of my rising rate fuel regulator. it actually is on the fuel feed line and im still running the standard regulator for the return line.

was i sposed to just have the regulator put on the return? well anyways it works for the time being. i will change it later on. but yeh i have had no problem with the 315cc injectors
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac and a Supercharged Manual V8

Posts: 4469
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Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 06:04 pm, by:  Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim,
Toss the Rising Reg and Install an ECU.
Take Full Safe Control of the engine mate.
( This really should be a must with 10psi )

You skimp,,you loose ( Detonation is as fast as Anthrax )
Kim Hunt
Tinkerer
nsw
SC400 GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 48
Reg: 08-2007

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Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 10:17 pm, by:  Kim Hunt (Lxtasi) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i hear ya i just have to save up for the computer. but till then it wont be going hard. power cruise was its testing grounds and now it shall have a rest till i install the computer. do you have a price and recommendation? i know the wolf v500 has a plug and play kit. is this the same with the adaptronic's?
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 432
Reg: 04-2006

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Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 11:28 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with Neil on this one... You need total engine control.

I'm pretty sure Neil will recommend the Adaptronic. He uses it in all his cars. I am using it and so are a few others on the forum. The Adap is not exactly plug and play.. More like solder and play.

There is a small tut on here that I did for mine.

It was difficult for me because of my year model, but it's worth it.. Once everything is setup, it's great. Full control over everything..

Just make sure you know a good tuner..
Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 214
Reg: 05-2006

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Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 03:11 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well kim is in nsw, so andy should be able to install and tune without a problem.
Tai Johnsen
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 434
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Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 07:48 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely..

Andy is a top bloke and knows his stuff..

Brett... What size inter-cooler are you running? or more to the point, what do you think would be the best suited? Big, small medium, narrow?

http://www.justjap.com/parts_nintercoolers.htm

There are universal cores down the page a bit..

I have had a few deliveries this week.. I'll snap some photos later on.. :-)
Brett Moloney
DieHard
Queensland
Supercharged UZZ31

Posts: 689
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 08:37 pm, by:  Brett Moloney (Lxsv8) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tai I was using a larger size - (600 x 300 x 76 I think) but decided to get a smaller one with the in and outlet pipes on the same side which cut out about 1.5metres of pipe that the forced air had to travel through. Much better results, for the centrifugal charger anyway - that is in my opinion from trying both types. Having said that your vortech will be mounted on the battery side of the engine bay and mine is on the drivers side.
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac and a Supercharged Manual V8

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Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 09:18 pm, by:  Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adaptronic :-) All the way jose'
Rauli Wise
Newbie
NSW
Looking at V8's to buy

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Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 12:59 am, by:  Rauli Wise (Rauli) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd put my money here.
(Note the CFM rating compared to the V1-S)

http://www.adelaidejap.com.au/Intercoolers.htm

"GTR SKYLINE Style Intercoolers
BAR and PLATE 600mm x 283mm x 70mm Core size
Rated 1020CFM and 0.2 psi drop at 15psi,
Max pressure 45psi
$550 each"

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