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Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

Posts: 260
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 12:53 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys,

I was just surfing auction sites and came across an electric Super Charger.

Just wondering what your opinion of these units is.

If it does everything it claims (which i doubt) then it's a pretty cheap and easy power upgrade for $250..

Link here:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ELECTRIC-SUPERCHARGER-TURBO-TOYOTA-SOARER-SUPRA-CELICA_W0QQitemZ380029217497
Tai Johnsen
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 580
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 01:38 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your timing in impecable!!

I just posted a response to a the same question on this thread..

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/121829/61225.html?1211423004
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 9358
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 01:47 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems they have become trendy in the last 24 hours.

Basically it isn't going to work. Think about what size electric fan (and that is what it is) would be needed to keep your 4 litre engine happy at full RPM, and then to increase the pressure to improve performance.

Then think how much current that would require if it was possible, and how much of a load that would put on your alternator.

A few weeks ago a link was posted to a video showing a guy testing one on a car (non Soarer) and his vacuum/boost gauge showed NO change at all.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 01:48 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And what Tai said while I was typing! :-)
Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 04:18 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the reply Peter/Tai.

I can see what you mean, however I still not convinced (either way).

I have been looking around and there is a mob in Qld (called Force Flow Racing) who seem to be making gains (and on large capacity engines too). They have a kit car running a 3.8Lt Commodore motor and a 5Ltr V8 Commodore that are both fitted with their hair driers.

I think it's worth keeping the debate open so I have emailed the distributor in Queensland (and provided the link to this post) so we'll see what eventuates..

The website i am referring to is:
http://www.force-flow.com/ and the pics of the 5Ltr V8 are here: http://www.force-flow.com/racing002.aspx
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 05:06 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The web site is pretty short on facts. No mention of current drain for example and the resulting load on the cars electrical system.

In fact about all they state, is the air flow as x cfm depending on the model, and up to 4300 RPM for the top model.

CFM may work in free air conditions, but it's very difficult to make pressure with an electric fan, try it sometime.

From Wikipedia about car turbos :
"A turbo spins very fast; most peak between 80,000 and 200,000 RPM (using low inertia turbos, 150,000-250,000 RPM) depending on size, weight of the rotating parts, boost pressure developed and compressor design."

Real superchargers use things like vanes etc to make pressure, they actually have to grab some air, squash the air, then pass it on and grab another lung full.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 06:38 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mark Ribbans wrote on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 04:18 pm:


I think it's worth keeping the debate open





No.
Mustafa Akgul
Goo Roo
NSW
ToyoPartsMan

Posts: 1851
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 06:52 pm, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there is no debate this is total hog wash.

a vacuum cleaner spins faster than this crap.
Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 09:18 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the insightful post Miles.

I'm not for one second advocating these devices (especially the ebay one that started this thread). I'm merely asking for educated opinion.

There are photos of cars on race tracks using the force-flow devices, so until someone shows me that they are photoshopped or made up purely to rip people off I can't help but think that some positive pressure is better than none at all, especially at low RPM.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:16 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You got my opinion.

There is no case for keeping the debate open.

There is no debate.

If I made a web page showing a (real) dog turd taped to my motor, and said it made +10hp, would you believe that too?
David Gavin
Tinkerer
ACT
GT-L V8

Posts: 16
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:27 pm, by:  David Gavin (Davidgavin) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When are you planning on marketing these turd-o-chargers you speak of? Will there be a group buy?
Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:34 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


David Gavin wrote on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:27 pm:

When are you planning on marketing these turd-o-chargers you speak of? Will there be a group buy?




I really hope you're not having a dig at me David.

This is a FORUM. Which implies discussion not ridicule. I clearly stated I am not an advocate.
David Gavin
Tinkerer
ACT
GT-L V8

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:40 pm, by:  David Gavin (Davidgavin) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just making a joke of what Miles had said. I'm sorry you don't think it was funny, it certainly wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:49 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OMG not humourous jibes on an internet forum?!?!? What is the world coming to when you can't even trust people on the internet to be absolutely polite at all times?

Next you'll be telling me those dick enlargement pills don't work!
Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:05 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look I'm no idiot, but I have clearly put my foot in it this time. I concede that it is all total BS and I'll accept all criticism and ridicule in due course.

For the record I thought the thing about taping dog sh*t to a car and making a website WAS pretty funny..

Oh and Miles, the dick enlargement pills aren't required. It appears that lately i've been making a rather big dick of myself without any need for them..

To think, I have rebuilt engines before..

Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:30 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also David, the reason i responded how I did was that Miles' original post (which I read in email) made no mention of the turd thing (he must have edited his post), so i thought you had just jumped in from left field with your reply..



Upload
David Gavin
Tinkerer
ACT
GT-L V8

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:58 pm, by:  David Gavin (Davidgavin) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GROUP HUG
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 06:09 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It will be interesting to see how they deal with a few questions though, keep us informed if you get any replies back Mark. :-)
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 07:18 am, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I stand in the same field as Muzzy and Miles on the likelihood they might work, I am happy to see questions asked and answered. As Peter said, feed us their replies so we can see what they say.

I notice that each of the installations shows a pod filter (probably more pod than filter) or in one case a ram air intake. If someone fits a turdocharger to their car in lieu of the stock intake, they are certainly going to get a real improvement in performance. It will just have a lot less to do with the turdo than they imagine.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 07:30 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I still have a stock intake, so I could save myself the hassle of making a free BFI simply by installing the
Force Flow 8.0
Twin side by side Electric Intake Supercharger System

for only $629.00 (GST Inc)


Upload


Please note the 8.0 twin system requires a y-join to connect the 2 electric intake superchargers to your intake system. The y-join is not included in this kit as it should be custom fabricated to suit the space in your vehicle.

I might need some help with that part though, perhaps another Fix-it day would be in order?
Simon Triantafillou
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Turbo

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 09:33 am, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or you could go down to the local computer shop and pick up a pair of the exact same fans for <$20.

I'd hate to see what happens when the fan fails and it gets sucked through the engine because it's mounted *after* the air filter.
I guess that's covered by this from their site: Realm Enterprises (Global) Pty Ltd and Force Flow or any of its employees can not be held liable for any damage caused to a motor vehicle or any of its parts which has had Force Flow products installed.
Tai Johnsen
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 581
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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 10:23 am, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Peter Nitschke wrote on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 07:30 am:

for only $629.00 (GST Inc)




This is my main gripe for the things...

Even if they do work even slightly, you could get a decent exhaust and intake mods for that price and probably get way more than 20hp gains..

and for a few extra bucks a uni chip or similar..



There is no need to flame Mark, there is no such thing as a stupid question. Just give your thoughts on the matter in a civil way :-)
Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:16 am, by:  Christian Molenda (Christof) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Miles Baker wrote on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:16 pm:

If I made a web page showing a (real) dog turd taped to my motor, and said it made +10hp, would you believe that too?




If you then had pictures of that car on a race track on your website, i'd be inclined to believe... hahaha

/End of thread
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:59 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tai, I was replying to David's post, not flaming Mark at all :-)
Mark Ribbans
TryHard
SA
UZZ-031 V8, 1972 Mazda RX2 Coupe, TE Gemmy

Posts: 267
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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 03:09 pm, by:  Mark Ribbans (V8gtsoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pen, since when have you had a '31?
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Friday, May 23, 2008 - 03:35 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Couple of months. Nice too, but I love them both, so very different to drive. The 31 is a super smooth cruiser, while the 30 is more for hooning. :-)
Gareth Richards
TryHard
Bristol UK
GTT-L twin turbo auto / Aristo Mk1 TT / Lexus GS300 SE Mk2

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Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 03:33 am, by:  Gareth Richards (Garethr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mechanically-driven superchargers on road cars consume anything from 15kw to about 75kw of power.

Simple arithmetic involving volts, amps, and watts tells you that a piddly little electric fan is not going to work :-)

This is an electric supercharger which does work
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html

Spot the difference? :-)
David Henderson
Tinkerer
Nsw
TT

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Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 02:29 pm, by:  David Henderson (Hendo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

conventional fans won't do much, but using electricity to provide boost is viable... check this out

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1250/article.htm

interesting...
Tai Johnsen
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31 - V8

Posts: 582
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Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 07:07 pm, by:  Tai Johnsen (Privatejohnsen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Gareth Richards wrote on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 03:33 am:

This is an electric supercharger which does work




That's more like it!!

Looks pretty heavy with all the batteries though..

It's hard to beat liquid fuel for power..

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