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Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4669
Reg: 11-2005

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Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 05:15 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a few questions about these setups. Any further info would be appreciated too.

Question 1) Is there a company that makes a decent quality complete kit, readily available? I would prefer a decent quality kit. What value are these?

Question 2) Are they easily made up if you decide to buy the parts individually?

Question 3) How do you reduce the risk of corroding the Aluminium, can you get an inhibitor mixed in with the water/methanol?

Question 4) I assume the solenoid injector is mounted between the throttle body and supercharger unit, does the mist have any effects going through the supercharger rotors?

Question 5) Obviously these are best run on a trigger switch that relates to the throttle position, are there any points in the throttle position where its best to have the injector and pump turn on, IE 1/2 throttle, 2/3, 3/4?

That is all for now.

Any answers would be good, links to other posts or sites about these would be good too.

Thank you kindly.
Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 921
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 09:16 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To answer some of your questions Mike

1. I am using a Devils Own kit, there is also Aquamist, Alcohol inj systems, Coolingmist to name a few.
2. Yes.
3. What ally is going to corroded
4. The system can be controlled a few ways, with a Hobbs pressure switch, through an aftermarket ECU with a boost reference, or a controller like the one from Devils Own.
The injector on mine is mounted pre throttle body and has no effect on the rotors.
5. It is controlled by boost pressure not throttle position

If I remember I will post up some pics on the weekend, do a search on any of the ones I posted above

A good quality kit with an electronic controller will set you back about $450 from Devils Own.
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria (The Nazi State)
Active V8 and the Beast.

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Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 09:52 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3) yes
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1556
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:16 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You need to use boost as a trigger not TPS options as Paul posted.

The injector is called a nozzell, I suggest the devil's own kits and in particular the nozzell they use is the best way to go.

If you buy all the parts on there own they add up to just as much as a kit.

If correctly setup it will have atomised the water meth and it will not damage rotors or cause corosion, high pressure pump is essential, lots of kits use 100psi but 250psi provides better atomisation.

Injecting pre supercharger is essential to help cool the rotors and housing, preventing heatsoak.

It is advisable to inject pre throttle body as you need a solenoid for post TB positioning adds extra cost with no performance benifit.

I would recommend Devil's own kit, good price, great nozzell, good connectors and very good quality 250psi pump.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4671
Reg: 11-2005

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Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:34 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, thanks for that guys, pretty much what I was wanting to hear. I actually came cross the Devils Own kits a few weeks back, and they seemed the way to go from what I read up about them, I was actually going to ask about them.


Dan McColl wrote on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 09:52 pm:

3) yes




Care to elaborate there Dan? :-)


Damian Ware wrote on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:16 pm:

It is advisable to inject pre throttle body as you need a solenoid for post TB positioning adds extra cost with no performance benifit.


Ah of course, that makes sense to have it before the TB to remove the vacuum pressure complication.

Thanks guys.
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
2002 Ford Fairmont AUII 6 cyl.

Posts: 7603
Reg: 05-2005

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 02:57 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mike Beck wrote on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 05:15 pm:

can you get an inhibitor mixed in with the water/methanol?





Dan McColl wrote on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 09:52 pm:

3) yes




Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4673
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 03:43 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mysterious Dan!
James Buchan
TryHard
Vic
UZZ31 V8

Posts: 408
Reg: 10-2008

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 04:52 pm, by:  James Buchan (Jrbuch) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep me updated Mike, regarding our discussion on the M90 and further mods - you mentioned Meth injection, Be interesting to hear what the results are like & how much it costs to get all setup.
Joshua White
TryHard
Qld
Supercharged V8 Soarer

Posts: 448
Reg: 11-2006

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 05:18 pm, by:  Joshua White (Joshua_88) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I run a snow performance water/methanol stage 2 kit and it seems to work very well.

Easy as to install and mine is controlled by the controller unit that comes in the kit and is triggered by boost. Mine comes on at 10% spray at 2.5 psi and is going 100% at 8psi.



Upload

Upload
Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 924
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 05:47 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used the devils own kit

Used the front washer bottle as a reservoir and mounted the pump to the impact bar.

Upload


This is the controller.

Upload


And it is feeding this.

Upload


I am using the 3 gallon/hour nozzle and have the pump set at 200 psi.

set to come on at low boost mainly to clean the combustion chambers at the moment so that I can get some more timing into it later and reduce the possibility of pinging and damaging another motor.

it was a good day for a beer too.
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

Posts: 2880
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 06:53 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you guys really really need the meth mixed in?

About ten years ago when I was playing with a turbo Z motor, I found it was just as happy on straight water.

I did however find that 10% Meth in the fuel tank instead allowed me to redrill the distributor for a few extra degrees of advance :-)
Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 925
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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 07:22 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm no expert but with a 50/50 mix you get lower intake temps and a slower combustion, which allows for more timing and more horsepower supposedly.

I will find out when I can get mine to a decent tuner, hopefully the results will be worth it.
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria (The Nazi State)
Active V8 and the Beast.

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 07:33 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Damian Ware wrote on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:16 pm:

The injector is called a nozzell, I suggest the devil's own kits and in particular the nozzell they use is the best way to go.


It's actually called a nozzle.

Mike, When I find out what it's called I'll let you know.

It's used a lot at the speedway where the sprint cars run on straight methanol.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1558
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 07:59 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Aaron Mead wrote on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 06:53 pm:

Do you guys really really need the meth mixed in?

About ten years ago when I was playing with a turbo Z motor, I found it was just as happy on straight water.




Methanol reduces the surface tension of water and allows for smaller droplet sizes. This allows for greater cooling less chance of damage particularly important when injecting pre turbo as well as methanol's higher octane rating.

Due to the higher pressure pumps currently available droplet size isn't a big issue but smaller droplet sizes are still regarded as better.

Methanol is cheap, available from many locations and is used in windscreen washer fluid it isn't a big deal to source or to use.

Typically 50/50 mix results in the best power output but optimal cooling is achieved with a 70/30 mix of water/meth according to data provided by water meth kit suppliers.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1559
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 08:01 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Dan McColl wrote on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 07:33 pm:

It's actually called a nozzle.




Thanks Dan.
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria (The Nazi State)
Active V8 and the Beast.

Posts: 2627
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Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 08:19 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just spent 10 seconds on google looking for it, didn't find it, but found this.


Someone wrote on another, web, site:

The addition of 1% of water to methanol (with some other additives) will eliminate corrosion.



This is the additive (clicky)
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4675
Reg: 11-2005

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Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 05:18 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the details guys

James Buchan
TryHard
Vic
UZZ31 V8

Posts: 435
Reg: 10-2008

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Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:51 pm, by:  James Buchan (Jrbuch) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some sweet pics there!

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