| Author |
Message |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 89
Reg: 05-2010
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4YWlrsDtEc
Anyone got details on this?
Decompressed? |
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe
Posts: 5023
Reg: 11-2005
|
Oh look an E36
I saw this a few months ago, pretty impressive.
|
Christian Somerville
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD
Posts: 877
Reg: 03-2009
|
Saw this previously too and would love information on it.
Would be running twin fuel pumps, larger injectors and maybe different cams? |
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe
Posts: 5031
Reg: 11-2005
|
Christian Somerville wrote on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 04:31 pm:Would be running twin fuel pumps, larger injectors and maybe different cams?
Would have to have a pretty decent fuel system, thats around 550hp at the crank.
Unreal the potential of the TVS' though, wonder how the prices compare to the Whipple 140AX with a similar snout setup... |
Christian Somerville
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD
Posts: 884
Reg: 03-2009
|
OHHHHH HAD TO WATCH IT FOR THE 10TH TIME!
How gooodddd does it sound when they are down gearing and just revving it!!! |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 266
Reg: 02-2006
|
That's a pretty sweet number!
I don't think there would be too many modifications above what I have done.
He gained 72rwkw from tuning with the water/meth alone!
That's it, I'm calling Bullet Cars for a pulley (14psi) and ordering a water injection kit.
14psi should take me to 315rwkw, then the water meth? I might be able to get pretty close to my short term 500rwhp mark sooner!
I have been told time and time again to fit water injection for the gains but now seeing the possible evidence, I need to make this happen!
Well this has me all excited now! The wife will not share the same feelings though, but oh well 
I was just thinking, there seems to be a fair bit of standing water after the throttle is closed. I wonder how droplets that size would go passing through the supercharger? I also find it interesting that the nozzle is fitted into the throttle body it's self and it looks standard too! |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 90
Reg: 05-2010
|
yeah the solenoid valve is obviously too far away / the line too big from the nozzle to the solenoid and / or needs the on / off points adjusted in the ecu thus the dribbles....
the only question would be if he has decompressed the motor or not.
I would also suggest sticking with just "plain water" rather then playing with 2 thirds meth that way you just use the washer reservoir with a little bars bugs in it (bars bugs is 50%meth and a few harmless detergents) so it will still clean your windscreen and also help atomize your water injection spray |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 91
Reg: 05-2010
|
and yeah stock throttle body is fine, big ones just make throttle control painful!
attach a vac gauge after your throttle body, note its reading at full power then decide if its restrictive... |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 268
Reg: 02-2006
|
Allan Langford wrote on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 07:53 pm:yeah the solenoid valve is obviously too far away / the line too big from the nozzle to the solenoid and / or needs the on / off points adjusted in the ecu thus the dribbles....
the only question would be if he has decompressed the motor or not.
I would also suggest sticking with just "plain water" rather then playing with 2 thirds meth that way you just use the washer reservoir with a little bars bugs in it (bars bugs is 50%meth and a few harmless detergents) so it will still clean your windscreen and also help atomize your water injection spray
Yes, I do not think the "dribbles" are good. Some fine tuning with the setup is still required to fix this I think.
I do not think de-compression would have been required. The initial power figure he quoted of 298rwkw without water/meth is quite achievable without opening up the bottom end. It appears all the gain has been from increased timing.
I would agree with the 50:50 ratio, but on the basis that above this the mixture may become flammable. I don't think the washer tank would be of sufficient capacity to be practical. I know that I would probably be in the range for injection too often. Refilling all the time would be a pain in the arse!
Cheers. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 269
Reg: 02-2006
|
Allan Langford wrote on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 08:04 pm:and yeah stock throttle body is fine, big ones just make throttle control painful!
attach a vac gauge after your throttle body, note its reading at full power then decide if its restrictive...
Good point. What sort of a difference would warrant upgrading?
I have been considering a Hypertune 100mm item. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 271
Reg: 02-2006
|
Hmmmm... Having a closer look at the curve on the dyno graphs on both his vids, I would expect head and cam work have been done.
$h1t, I might just send him a message through youtube. |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 92
Reg: 05-2010
|
Nathan Richardson wrote on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 08:15 pm:Good point. What sort of a difference would warrant upgrading?
Rule of thumb method:
Any more then ~10 HG without air filter
long method:
another way to look at it is airspeed / CFM (where is Mr Fluid Dynamics when you need him)
70mm / 2.75" pipe (~1uz T/B) (excluding shaft and butterfly)
A round average for airflow vs. hp is 1.5 to 1.6 cubic feet per minute at sea level for each hp developed and the speed of sound is considered the point where frictional loss's increase dramatically.
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
480hp/353kw = 300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
640hp/471kw = 400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
...
1760hp/1310kw = 1100 cfm = 303 mph = 0.40 mach (speed of sound)
in short - Stock 70mm t/b should be fine! |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 1708
Reg: 10-2005
|
Stock TB was designed for factory HP output. Sure it still flows ok with 200rwkw but at 300rwkw plus IMO you will need a larger one. Keep in mind you are at more than double the factory HP.
The blown Mustangs see considerable performance gains from very large TB and positive displacement superchargers don't work as well with negative boost. |
Christian Somerville
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD
Posts: 892
Reg: 03-2009
|
mmm, good point, the 70mm TB's are bigger than the Gen 3 5.7L GM engines from memory, them being 60 or 65 and 225kw, would this all be determined other aspects other than power? |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 1709
Reg: 10-2005
|
I think the GEN III 5.7L are 74mm from memory, and they are restrictive at 9psi. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 274
Reg: 02-2006
|
Damian Ware wrote on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 10:37 pm:Stock TB was designed for factory HP output. Sure it still flows ok with 200rwkw but at 300rwkw plus IMO you will need a larger one. Keep in mind you are at more than double the factory HP.
The blown Mustangs see considerable performance gains from very large TB and positive displacement superchargers don't work as well with negative boost.
I'd agree.
Allan, Thanks for the information and I think whilst you post is quite accurate from what I know about aerodynamics, I believe that it is the affect of the butterfly that might have more of an impact on throttle body size.
Whilst the overall speed of the airflow is correct, (and I this is seen by 370rwkw with a standard throttle body) it is the localised airflow around objects like the butterfly that may reduce efficiency of the throttle body due to drag, both below and above the speed of sound.
In aviation terms, once we get near the speed of sound, airflow changes as you said. This is called "M crit", and can be the the limiting factor in the aircraft's max speed due to localised airflow over the aircraft's frame reaching the speed of sound resulting in numerous issues.
The reason I say this is that the frontal area of any butterfly at WOT would be the same, thus the drag profile would be relatively similar. The larger diameter throttle body would allow more undisturbed airflow around this.
So, I wonder... Exact same setup but with a 100mm TB... Hmmmmm...... I need to see the numbers!!!! |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 93
Reg: 05-2010
|
hook up a vac gauge to the pipe between the blower and throttle body, it will soon tell you if there is a restriction upstream! |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 1710
Reg: 10-2005
|
Allan that is the best way to be sure and I would certainly be taking before and after readings.
Results from a blown 1uz with roughly 300rwkw was -20HG. |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 94
Reg: 05-2010
|
with or without air filter? |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 1711
Reg: 10-2005
|
Without filter or air box. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 276
Reg: 02-2006
|
Damian Ware wrote on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 07:34 am:Results from a blown 1uz with roughly 300rwkw was -20HG
Interesting.
I have been considering fitting a larger TB at the sacrifice of cruise and TRC.
What are your thoughts?
Cheers. |
Vinny Ozorio
TryHard
NT
Z30 Soarer V8
Posts: 119
Reg: 05-2007
|
Hiya Nathan...Good to see you are using your aviation experience regards "M-Crit" and "Boundry Layer Friction"..Why not change to a twin throttle body set-up ??? Still luv the colour of ya unit... |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 277
Reg: 02-2006
|
Hey Vinny, Hows things??
Yeah, I was just trying to sound intelligent.
I have considered the twin TB route, and have the second TB slaved to the other. I just don't know 
Have you seen Ben's TT? It's the same colour 
On another note, what would you say to giving me a hand to do some bits and pieces on my car?? Alcohol is fair currency still yeah?? |
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 95
Reg: 05-2010
|
Damian Ware wrote on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 07:34 am:Results from a blown 1uz with roughly 300rwkw was -20HG Without filter or air box.
I would probably live with that if:
A, I was still running a recirculated PCV system as it may help with scavenging the crank case under boost / high revs.
B, the car was used for road trips and cruises through the hills.
At that point I would consider firstly seeing how much can be taken out of the stock throttle body (i would say 80mm is do-able) and back cutting the throttle shaft.
keep in mind unless everything else was done, the car was a track weapon and the amount of stuffing around / features lost (Cruise / TRC) was worth it... we have seen that 370rwkw is do-able with the stock throttle body... is an extra 10 / 15 at most rwkw worth the cost? |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 278
Reg: 02-2006
|
Allan Langford wrote on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 06:01 pm:keep in mind unless everything else was done, the car was a track weapon and the amount of stuffing around / features lost (Cruise / TRC) was worth it... we have seen that 370rwkw is do-able with the stock throttle body... is an extra 10 / 15 at most rwkw worth the cost?
So true!! Maybe I'll look further into a twin setup.
Cheers. |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 1715
Reg: 10-2005
|
Nathan Richardson wrote on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 04:45 pm:Interesting.
I have been considering fitting a larger TB at the sacrifice of cruise and TRC.
What are your thoughts?
I think it was worth about 50rwkw.
The mustangs have been well developed with lots of back to back results I think running higher boost twin screws ect there was gains of 100hp from fitting larger TB.
IMO they are well worth looking into. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 280
Reg: 02-2006
|
Damian Ware wrote on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 08:35 pm:I think it was worth about 50rwkw.
50rwkw hey!!! Hmmmmm.... Add that to the mods I'm looking into at the moment, and that should result in a pretty healthy power figure!!! |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 1717
Reg: 10-2005
|
I'm sure it would but test your intake system before you spend time effort and money as your setup might not be as restrictive. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 290
Reg: 02-2006
|
I have found out that the mods on this engine are exactly the same as mine, heads and cams. The bottom end is unopened.
I'd say the boost would be the same too. The 7rwkw difference between mine and theirs (no water/meth), might be the suspension pump.
Cheers. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 294
Reg: 02-2006
|
Just read the YouTube comments, and it would appear that it has Ross pistons and Eagle rods from Lextreme. Don't know the compression but doesn't really matter.
70mm Pulley is the same as mine, he says 13psi but it would actually be 11psi at red line. |
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder
Posts: 5903
Reg: 03-2006
|
The same pulley wont make the same boost on the same engine , there can be alot of variables . Normally close but wont be identical . |
Andrew Ferres
Goo Roo
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '89 Crown Wagon V8, '84 Soarer V8
Posts: 1279
Reg: 07-2005
|
Nathan Richardson wrote on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 01:29 am:he says 13psi but it would actually be 11psi at red line.
His 13psi could differ from yours (and will differ greatly to a stock engine) due to the cams though. |
Nathan Richardson
TryHard
N.T.
UZZ32 #445 (V8 Supercherged 5Speed. 291RWKW)
Posts: 303
Reg: 02-2006
|
Daniel Clarke wrote on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 06:58 am:The same pulley wont make the same boost on the same engine , there can be alot of variables . Normally close but wont be identical .
Andrew Ferres wrote on Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 09:52 am:His 13psi could differ from yours (and will differ greatly to a stock engine) due to the cams though.
True, true. |
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