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Josh Halse
Tinkerer
South Australia
soarer v8

Posts: 31
Reg: 12-2011

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 01:55 pm, by:  Josh Halse (Sir_400) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I'm interested in getting my soarer blown, probably low pound as I want it to be reliable for daily driving. I heard twin screw is probably the best way to go? But I am unsure as I don't know all that much about chargers.

Just wanting to know rough price for a proper set up with around 6psi if I paid professionals to do it?

Also, is it possible to have it blown and still reliable as a daily if proper work is done?

Also, currently have full exhaust/extractors done with open air filter. What sort of power can I expect from 6psi? Thanks.
Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 652
Reg: 05-2010

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 02:27 pm, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Twin screw is good for power, no good for fuel economy as they are always compressing air and loading up the motor unlike a bypassed roots.

I'm running 7psi on my toothpick conrod 96+ motor with a second-hand Eaton M112 of a Ford Mustang Cobra, made 215rwkw, once I get some early rods in it I'll swap the pulley and take it up to 14psi...

Done a trip to Sydney and back over xmas and daily to work and back no problems.

I did all the work myself probably all up about $3k

to get someone to do it probably looking more like $10K and months without your car.

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/121829/355214.html?1324513414
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 1097
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 03:16 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Allan Langford wrote on Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 02:27 pm:

Twin screw is good for power, no good for fuel economy as they are always compressing air and loading up the motor unlike a bypassed roots.




Have to disagree with you Allan, I have been running a Whipple twin screw on 12lbs of boost for over four years now.

Daily driver, average about 7 to 800 k's every week, returns nearly 600k per tank full with some spirited driving thrown in.

At the moment 350 rwhp and runs 13 seconds down the quarter with crap 60 footers, and traps at 111mph.

Of course I have a wolf v500 aftermarket computer and 440 injectors along with some other improvements that have done over the years.

When it was first fitted stock inj standard ecu 8lbs of boost it pulled 310 rwhp, but had a tendency to ping at wot. Hence the better ecu, etc.

Here is a link to when we started on it, there is some more some where.


http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/121829/215639.html?1195197743
Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 655
Reg: 05-2010

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 04:12 pm, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul, how can a blower that draws more horsepower at cruise use less fuel then one that does not?

I got 9.75ltr/100km over a 1800km trip to Sydney and back "spritedly" via the Princes Hwy ;)
Mario Lentini
TryHard
Queensland
UZZ32 V8

Posts: 277
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 08:40 pm, by:  Mario Lentini (Lexus94) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also found after fitting my Blower to my UZZ32 it was better on fuel , the little 4Lt engine isn't busting its balls dragging the heavy 32 down the road anymore and went from just over 6K's/Ltr to over 9Ks/Ltr .
Allan I have a good set of early 1uz rods with ARP rod bolts if interested .
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 09:12 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We still use a by pass valve Allan, the other gains are in being able to tune the engine to run more efficiently off boost.

Better response and improved fuel economy, even with the 440cc inj's that I am using.
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
1994 Honda Accord M/T

Posts: 3809
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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 10:01 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What else would be require for 400rwhp Paul?
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 1099
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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 10:30 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a set of billet cams that I brought from Peter Taplin, should put me over 400 Ali, also have a 3500 stally for it.

My fuel economy will suffer with that one though.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 6693
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 10:32 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not if you use a programmable Ecu for the trans utilising torque convertor lockup :-)

Actually increase fuel economy .
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 1100
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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 11:39 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that Daniel, will look into it.
Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 656
Reg: 05-2010

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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 12:09 am, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you will need a better TCC with any serious power..

something like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIwcpZ5wQo0
Josh Halse
Tinkerer
South Australia
soarer v8

Posts: 32
Reg: 12-2011

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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 12:58 am, by:  Josh Halse (Sir_400) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks alot, so 6-8psi is pretty safe as a daily then, if i achieve 200rwkw then I'd be pretty happy but if it's going to cost 10k then I probably wouldn't do it. I would probably go to only 4k or thereabouts.

Also with the fuel economy, I get amazing fuel-age with 98 octane. Roughly 6-6.5l/100 on the highway cruising at 110kmph which beats my old vz calais 3.6. I know this as I do a 200km trip and back every second weekend and always take note of the fuel in my tank.

Also, if i was to get it charged I would want one that either matches my current fuel economy or does better.

How complicated is installing one? I wouldn't dream of doing it myself but I have a few mates who are mechanics/car gurus and what-not.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 07:47 am, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you only want 200rwkw then an m90 will do it no problems .
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 1101
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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 05:23 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Daniel, M90, about 6 to 7lbs of boost, a rising rate fuel reg, and every thing else stock, you will be ok.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 2100
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 05:28 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As per Daniels comments M90 will produce 200rwkw no worries. A second hand M90 of the correct type plus a builders kit from bullet and it can be done with a very professional result for about 4k.

If you want more then the new eaton TVS roots blowers or twin screws are the way to go.

I found nearly no change in fuel economy if anything a slight increase in economy whilst on cruise which is probably due to the better less restrictive manifold.

Also I wouldn't bother trying to push over/much over 250rwkw as dispite the reputation of the 1uz's being ultra strong and being capable of huge hp without being opened (and they are) they tend to not last.

I have seen quite a few which were around 300rwkw which have had rings let go where as 1uz's pushing 180-230rwkw seem to last forever.

I guess going over double the factory output they just don't last.
Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 657
Reg: 05-2010

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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 06:15 pm, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why would you go an M90 when a M112 is cheaper or the same?
Jay Asghari
TryHard
Victoria
'94 UZZ31 GTL, '94 TT, '96 UZZ32

Posts: 115
Reg: 01-2010

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Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 06:27 pm, by:  Jay Asghari (8pack) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Allan here - M112 is the way to go. The M90 is just too small. Being a roots blower, it pings its head off as soon as you throw reasonable boost at it.

For big boost, the tight engine tolerances of the 1UZFE mean that they tend to do a ring. Best to chuck in a set of forged pistons for high boost applications.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 2101
Reg: 10-2005

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Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 09:59 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

M112 is still a roots blower. It requires more HP to drive it and pushes a little more air.

According to the efficiency graphs at 6psi the M90 is marginally more efficient than the M112.

Above 8psi the M112 is more efficient but they are only good for about 12psi and they still suffer all the heating problems of the M series roots blowers.

As for being cheaper normally they are not cheaper and much more difficult due to bonnet clearance issues to install.
Allan Langford
DieHard
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 658
Reg: 05-2010

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Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 05:50 pm, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Damian Ware wrote on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 09:59 pm:

As for being cheaper normally they are not cheaper and much more difficult due to bonnet clearance issues to install.



Your comment is 100% wrong, I have done it and posted it on here!

* it's defiantly cheaper! YOU stated $4k for the M90 kit alone, my M112 "kit" would be closer to $2k + another $1k for misc bit's like hose, wire, fuel pump, pressure reg etc..

* delivers air temps around 60c - 70c @ 7psi much safer for a hi-comp motor if your keeping the stock ecu!

* The M112 was $900 shipped fedex to my door! no bonnet clearance issues with the the right manifold!


Above all this why limit yourself to M90 boost levels? ~200rwkw makes a soarer ok it's far from "fast"
Jay Asghari
TryHard
Victoria
'94 UZZ31 GTL, '94 TT, '96 UZZ32

Posts: 118
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Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 06:43 pm, by:  Jay Asghari (8pack) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damian - I am aware that the M112 is a roots blower as it's simply an M90 with 112Ci instead of 90Ci (more or less). The issue is, as soon as you throw a bit of boost at the M90, it starts to ping.

The M112 is capable of blowing more air before the intake temperatures get out of hand, due to its larger displacement.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 2102
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 07:34 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Allan Langford wrote on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 05:50 pm:

Your comment is 100% wrong, I have done it and posted it on here!

* it's defiantly cheaper! YOU stated $4k for the M90 kit alone, my M112 "kit" would be closer to $2k + another $1k for misc bit's like hose, wire, fuel pump, pressure reg etc..




No I said a very professional result for about 4k this includes the price of an M90 and depending on the M90 a basic piggy back.

The builders kit from bullet which can be made to suit different M90's is 3k. Builders kit comes with every nut bolt oring you need to do the job. The only thing missing is a small tube of sealant. Depending on the M90 you use will vary the final cost. But a good used M90 that suits a soarer can be had for around $600-900. Add an SMT6 $400 to $500(very much worth it) and you can be up and running for about 4k or less without the SMT6.

Alternatively you could use the slightly rougher manifold (still works very well just not as well finished) from Richwood and his builders kit (less complete than bullets builders kit) is 2.5k.


Allan Langford wrote on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 05:50 pm:


* delivers air temps around 60c - 70c @ 7psi much safer for a hi-comp motor if your keeping the stock ecu!




M90 running 6.5psi of boost on my car on a 28-30 deg C day on the dyno produce air temps of about 70 deg C post blower.


Allan Langford wrote on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 05:50 pm:


* The M112 was $900 shipped fedex to my door! no bonnet clearance issues with the the right manifold!




I don't know the details of your manifold but I can only say that at the time I did mine bullets manifold was the best flowing that was available. It is also quite low M112 will fit under the bonnet but it comes down to the pulley diameter you are going to run.

With the high AUD atm buying from US is a very viable option and something to look into.

I had a quick look at your thread and results nice power figure for low boost. Nice install as well looks great mate.

On my uzz32 I ended up with about 200rwkw on 6.5psi of boost. But the power curve was very different to yours, power increased very rapidly at low rpm up until about 4000rpm then it flattened off. I had 190rwkw plus from 4000rpm through to redline.

I would have thought with the later model higher comp motor you would have had more power at lower rpm and similar or a bit less up top.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 2103
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 07:49 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Jay Asghari wrote on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 06:43 pm:

Damian - I am aware that the M112 is a roots blower as it's simply an M90 with 112Ci instead of 90Ci (more or less). The issue is, as soon as you throw a bit of boost at the M90, it starts to ping.

The M112 is capable of blowing more air before the intake temperatures get out of hand, due to its larger displacement.




True but the M112 requires more HP to drive it and it is slightly less efficient than a M90. 1uz will ping with both blowers even at 6psi if you don't have a timing control on a warm day.

The real world results I have seen on the early 1uz with the M112 were all running higher boost ie 9-12psi and at 9psi the gains are very minimal over a M90.

But remember 1uzs are not remotely new anymore and every engine has had different use different km's different service history so comparisions which such small differences are very difficult to make.
Josh Halse
Tinkerer
South Australia
soarer v8

Posts: 33
Reg: 12-2011

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Monday, March 05, 2012 - 03:00 am, by:  Josh Halse (Sir_400) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm this is alot to learn haha. Very interesting though. I would need it so i can drive with it daily but always reliable to hit full boost (6-8psi) whenever I want it to, without troubles.

What does 'ping' mean by the way?
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 2105
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, March 05, 2012 - 09:35 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ping = detonation.

I'm sure there will be bucket loads of detailed explinations on the web. But basically it equals very high cylinder pressures and blow up motor caused by too much ignition timing for a given load.
Josh Halse
Tinkerer
South Australia
soarer v8

Posts: 34
Reg: 12-2011

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Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 01:50 am, by:  Josh Halse (Sir_400) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay so I don't want that to happen no matter what haha. If i get it blown, I want there to be a basically 100% chance it won't ping, no matter how hard I push it, if this isn't possible then I guess I'll just stay N/A.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 2106
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 08:38 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can have any motor ping with incorrect ignition timing.

Correct tune and you will have no problems with boost.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 6702
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Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 09:16 am, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's all In the tune . Also seen plenty of 200 rwkw m90 setups .

Paul , I'm using a Slingshot convertor in my car . It is a stock rebuilt one with upgraded clutches and raised stall . Fun to drive and still retains the lockup :-)

Power train solutions make an Ecu that is programmable for the transmission as well if your on the market for one .

I'm using one of cams short boxes , switchable between auto and manual ( only 3 gears though. I only wanted it for the drags )
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 1104
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Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 05:12 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A bit off topic, but thanks for that info Daniel.

I have Lews 3500 stally from his 2j lite ace van, only a little mod to the flex plate to fit it.

My trans is controlled by the v500 Wolf.

I will check out Power Train solutions, thanks mate.
Bernie Simm
Newbie
Tasmania
GT 4.0 v8

Posts: 3
Reg: 06-2012

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Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 08:10 pm, by:  Bernie Simm (Mayhem78) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys. I have an M90 on a 1uz and love it! I brought it advertised as 200+RWKW....Currently only 5psi boost,and stock ecu. Since,I have added rush headers,700+hp fuel pump,rising rate reg,HP fuel lines and fittings,and exhaust mods. It is a beast! The only time it ever pinged was when the original fuel pump failed. As for driving,it is awesome on fuel,hwy driving can expetc 550-600ks per tank($220 fuel,bundy-hobart),but will guzzle hard under load. The power curve is mental,the acceleration stays full on all the way through every gear to redline,3500rpm its really alive,5000rpm onwards its awake and angry, to the point that I get butterflies and a huge grin in 2nd,3rd gear wind ups. To have constant strong acceleration all the way from stand still to redline is great!
I know shes nothing majorly special,and i dont have any dyno sheets yet,but for what its got compared to afew other examples of blown 1uz soarers ive seen with whippple and vortech and ITBs etc,this one certainly turned out superb. With Emanage,440cc injectors,lsd,1.5 shift kit and a shave in the blower, I would hope to achieve about the 220RWKW+ mark.
Paul Drane
Goo Roo
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 1146
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Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 09:32 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a fun car Bernie.

Is your car white?
If it is the one that I am thinking off, just cant remember who used to own it, if it is an original Tassie car.
Bernie Simm
Newbie
Tasmania
GT 4.0 v8

Posts: 4
Reg: 06-2012

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Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 09:46 pm, by:  Bernie Simm (Mayhem78) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, i went to Bundaberg to collect mine. Alot of the QLD members may remember the GHT70(ghetto) pale green soarer from sunshine coast. That's now registered as MAYHEM here in Tassie.

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