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Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 17
Reg: 05-2010

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Friday, June 25, 2010 - 10:07 pm, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Aiden Cheese wrote on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 07:31 pm:

I thought the swaybars on the soarer's were pretty huge, what is wrong with them? Is it just the bushings and rubber mounts? Would replacing them with a harder compound be comparable?




The stock ones are tubular! and very thin tube, whiteline ones are solid!

I re-used the factory rubber bushes for the body mounts on mine to keep NVH down
Aiden Cheese
DieHard
QLD
Soarer jzz30

Posts: 615
Reg: 09-2009

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 01:27 am, by:  Aiden Cheese (Chillpen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Allan Langford wrote on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 10:07 pm:



The stock ones are tubular! and very thin tube, whiteline ones are solid!


Thanks exactly what I wanted to know :-)
Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 464
Reg: 05-2006

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 02:02 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is apparently the difference between hollow and solid.

"stiffness is actually proportional to radius^4. So the outer part of any bar does simply masses more for stiffness than the inner.

So if you take the 4th power of 22, get 234256.
take the 4th power of 24, get 331776.

Take the difference between these, get 331776-234256 = 97520

Take the 4th root of 97520, get 17.6.

So you can have a 24mm hollow bar with a 17.6mm hollow section and it will be the same stiffness as a solid 22mm. It will also weigh only 55% of the 22mm bar."
Allan Langford
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ31

Posts: 18
Reg: 05-2010

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 02:28 pm, by:  Allan Langford (Allan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

only problem is its not a strait bar! so math out the window as you have the forces reacting differently all the way along the bar!

That being said whiteline quotes 33% stiffer then stock
James Johnson
TryHard
Auckland
UZZ31 Soarer

Posts: 337
Reg: 03-2009

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 04:32 pm, by:  James Johnson (Jimbo) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Steven Anderson wrote on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 02:02 pm:

This is apparently the difference between hollow and solid.

"stiffness is actually proportional to radius^4. So the outer part of any bar does simply masses more for stiffness than the inner.

So if you take the 4th power of 22, get 234256.
take the 4th power of 24, get 331776.

Take the difference between these, get 331776-234256 = 97520

Take the 4th root of 97520, get 17.6.

So you can have a 24mm hollow bar with a 17.6mm hollow section and it will be the same stiffness as a solid 22mm. It will also weigh only 55% of the 22mm bar."




We used to beat geeks like you up back in school...

As Allan pointed out it is not a strait piece and as it is the whiteline bar is 30mm thick.
Aiden Cheese
DieHard
QLD
Soarer jzz30

Posts: 617
Reg: 09-2009

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 05:15 pm, by:  Aiden Cheese (Chillpen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


James Johnson wrote on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 04:32 pm:


We used to beat geeks like you up back in school...


Yet you own a soarer which is an engineering dream from the 90's...
Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 466
Reg: 05-2006

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 07:35 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


James Johnson wrote on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 04:32 pm:

We used to beat geeks like you up back in school...

As Allan pointed out it is not a strait piece and as it is the whiteline bar is 30mm thick.




and now those geeks are probably earning more than you. Added to that, see those little things that look like "? they are called quotes, you should look up what they are used for sometime.

Jebus christ some of you are quick act like a bunch of tools.

I simply put a bit of information about how to judge the stiffness of a stock vs hollow bar, that is all, at no point did I claim whiteline was worse than stock, why the would I, I have a set on my car.
Scott Casey
TryHard
nsw
soarer v8

Posts: 487
Reg: 02-2008

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 09:50 pm, by:  Scott Casey (V8soarer_1991) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Adj Whiteline Swaybars F and R / Front Strut Bar

not happy

2. 17 or 18" with good tyres / supra alignment specs

not happy

2. Otomoto HSD HR Coilovers

not happy - give up
Brett Cutts
DieHard
south australia
TT & V8

Posts: 608
Reg: 07-2008

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:37 pm, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

weird thread
how to make a soarer handle sporty ????????
after driving gt and tickford falcons for twenty years I thought they did handle sporty. Must just be an old fart thing
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5633
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 11:19 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, its all relative I guess. The Soarer handles just fine for a 1990's Grand Tourer. Get some good grippy tyres and enjoy the comfortable ride I say.

Comment about beating on geeks made me laugh - A big part of Australiasian culture is hating on us geeks. So many people are almost scared of maths and science simply because they won't make an effort to understand it.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4733
Reg: 11-2005

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 03:28 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 11:19 am:

The Soarer handles just fine for a 1990's Grand Tourer. Get some good grippy tyres and enjoy the comfortable ride I say




Yeah, they are what they are I think.

If you want a driving car, get an M3 I guess!
Spencer Cameron
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 (converted Manual)

Posts: 176
Reg: 04-2008

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 05:36 pm, by:  Spencer Cameron (Switchio) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Aiden Cheese wrote on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 05:15 pm:

Yet you own a soarer which is an engineering dream from the 90's...




Sorry, its really not that special. Just like every other mass produced car the soarer is an exercise in market driven, bulk-buy engineering.

Devise a cost effective floor plan, adapt for specific market sectors; sports/supra, luxury/soarer. They even reconfigured it for the saloons.

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, Its just that I've seen so many ppl write about this car like it some kind of early nineties version of the LFA. Its not even close..


Steven Anderson wrote on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 02:02 pm:

So you can have a 24mm hollow bar with a 17.6mm hollow section and it will be the same stiffness as a solid 22mm. It will also weigh only 55% of the 22mm bar.




Whiteline has been making swaybars for a loooong time so I'm guessing that they know what they're doing.

If I had to guess, I'd say they make them solid to better deal with the fatigue they sustain from enforcing/enduring more load.
Christian Somerville
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 723
Reg: 03-2009

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 06:08 pm, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Spencer Cameron wrote on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 05:36 pm:

Sorry, its really not that special. Just like every other mass produced car the soarer is an exercise in market driven, bulk-buy engineering.

Devise a cost effective floor plan, adapt for specific market sectors; sports/supra, luxury/soarer. They even reconfigured it for the saloons.

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, Its just that I've seen so many ppl write about this car like it some kind of early nineties version of the LFA. Its not even close..




Ah, not entirely right there mate,
for the time it was an engineering feat for Toyota and to this day has some amazing technology, the UZZ32 was the most amazing with the hydraulic suspension, which other manufacturers didn't see until years later.

Also to mention the 1UZ, which did originally come in the LS400 and is up to scratch with V8's of today, hence $400,000,000 of development and BMW paying Toyota to use their initial designs, tolerance and clearances to go own to make their own first V8.

Soarer's ARE amazing for their time, no one is comparing it to the LFA at all mate, people are proud of their cars and if you have a detailed look at the structure of these cars such as the door hinges, suspension design, safety features and no to mention how well everything was assembled, Soarer's are pretty bloody good for their time!
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4736
Reg: 11-2005

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 06:24 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Spencer Cameron wrote on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 05:36 pm:

Sorry, its really not that special. Just like every other mass produced car the soarer is an exercise in market driven, bulk-buy engineering.

Devise a cost effective floor plan, adapt for specific market sectors; sports/supra, luxury/soarer. They even reconfigured it for the saloons.

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, Its just that I've seen so many ppl write about this car like it some kind of early nineties version of the LFA. Its not even close..




Aside from the UZZ32 I would agree with you.

I used to think they were exceptionally amazing, they are sure it impress but if you look at what was also available at the same time, late 80s and early 90s there BMW and Mercedes also had equally if not better cars, but of course they cost more.

One must remember they are just a fancy body on top of a Supra Chassis, coupled with a common 1JZ or 1UZ made for the Lexus LS400.
Matt Newman
TryHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 257
Reg: 11-2007

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 07:17 pm, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry to burst your bubble Christian but Citroen have had hydraulic systems since about 1955 in the DS
Murray Lund
TryHard
NSW
V8

Posts: 297
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 08:22 pm, by:  Murray Lund (Murray) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beg to differ with Spencer. Not sure that its accurate to describe the Soarer as an exercise in market driven bulk buy engineering. While not putting the Soarer on some kind of unrealistic pedestal when you look at the car market in 1991, I would say that the Soarer has actually been put together as a show case of Toyota engineering and to venture into a new market. It was never meant to be a sports car but a luxury touring sports coupe. Trying to turn it into a sports car somewhat defeats the purpose - it's really too heavy for an out an out sportscar.
My 2 cents worth.
Christian Somerville
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 727
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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 12:32 am, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt that uses basic hydraulic fluid assembly, not the same setup that was seen in late model Lancer EVOs and that now was it...
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5638
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 06:48 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matt Newman wrote on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 07:17 pm:

sorry to burst your bubble Christian but Citroen have had hydraulic systems since about 1955 in the DS




Not really comparable, as it was a "self leveling" reactive system that relied on simple fluid circulation - ie. not active or computer controlled at all. Still the DS was definitely the "car of the future" in the 50's.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5639
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 06:52 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Simple question - what other 1990's Japanese GT compares to the Soarer in comfort, features, looks etc? None. That makes the Soarer fairly unique for its time if you ask me.
Matt Sartori
DieHard
Western Australia
Rx7

Posts: 695
Reg: 08-2008

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 07:11 am, by:  Matt Sartori (Klutch) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 06:52 am:

Simple question - what other 1990's Japanese GT compares to the Soarer in comfort, features, looks etc? None.



Would a Chaser count as a GT?
Aiden Cheese
DieHard
QLD
Soarer jzz30

Posts: 620
Reg: 09-2009

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 09:26 am, by:  Aiden Cheese (Chillpen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matt Sartori wrote on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 07:11 am:


Would a Chaser count as a GT?


Saloon. More the point is, a 2.5L engine making 200kw while under gentlemens agreements and other issues. On top of that, i don't see how just any old hack can throw together a car, whereas almost every car is some "Engineers dream". I think you're arrogant for stating anything else short and it's reinforced for shooting down someone who's only intention is helping put some relativity into the thread even if he hasn't calculated every bend in the system.

Wow: one comment can really throw a thread..
Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 469
Reg: 05-2006

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 09:45 am, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 06:52 am:

Simple question - what other 1990's Japanese GT compares to the Soarer in comfort, features, looks etc? None. That makes the Soarer fairly unique for its time if you ask me.




Cosmo
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
UZZ31

Posts: 2541
Reg: 09-2007

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 02:52 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cosmo..looks? lol
Spencer Cameron
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 (converted Manual)

Posts: 177
Reg: 04-2008

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 03:28 pm, by:  Spencer Cameron (Switchio) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 06:52 am:

Simple question - what other 1990's Japanese GT compares to the Soarer in comfort, features, looks etc? None.




Theres nothing to compare because there wasn't really a "sports luxury" catagory in the Japanese market at the time. The Z30 soarer wasn't meant the Japanese market, it was designed for the US to fill a gap in the new-born lexus badge.

I guess after they had all the manufacturing infrastucture setup for it they decided to slap the soarer name on it and sell it domestically as well.


Aiden Cheese wrote on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 09:26 am:

On top of that, i don't see how just any old hack can throw together a car, whereas almost every car is some "Engineers dream".




I wouldn't call the Toyota engineers hacks, but its not their job to make the perfect car, their job is to help their CEO make money. That means engineering ideals are always going to take a backseat to economic feasibility reports and consumer demographic surveys.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4748
Reg: 11-2005

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Monday, June 28, 2010 - 03:31 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ali Saeed wrote on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 02:52 pm:

cosmo..looks? lol




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