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Byron Clarke
Tinkerer
NSW
VVTI Turbo

Posts: 12
Reg: 12-2006

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Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:19 pm, by:  Byron Clarke (Byron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After looking on ebay for a while I noticed that in addition to the el cheapo normal speakers there were also some brand name "component speakers" which are a fair bit dearer ($200 - $600 for 5.25"). Can someone explain this to me please?

Also I was wondering what the difference between speakers wattage (peak/normal?) and RMS? Thanks in advance.
Byron Clarke
Tinkerer
NSW
VVTI Turbo

Posts: 13
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Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:25 pm, by:  Byron Clarke (Byron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Boston-Acoustics-Z5-Component-Splits-Speakers-5-1-4_W0QQitemZ300069231008QQih Z020QQcategoryZ130672QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

4 Inch Component speakers for nearly $1000??? Can anyone explain to me why these are worth just under $1000? (compared to like $30 - $80)
Byron Clarke
Tinkerer
NSW
VVTI Turbo

Posts: 14
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Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:34 pm, by:  Byron Clarke (Byron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HOLY JESUS! ---> Hifonics XX3215 15" 6400w Sub

Description
The Power from the Gods comes direct from this GOLIATH 15” Superwoofer. Winning countless world SPL championships, these woofers are designed to melt the competition. For serious competitors, and bass junkies, this woofer is more bang for buck than many can handle.

Is this thing really loud??

(I PROMISE this is my last post until someone replies.)
Upload
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 423
Reg: 08-2006

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Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 02:34 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power

That's a good explanation of all the different terms. Really I only look at the RMS ratings (even though technically speaking RMS is not a correct description, but industry accepted http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm )
Sean Camelin
TryHard
NT
JZZ30 2.5 GTT-L

Posts: 125
Reg: 04-2006

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Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 02:51 pm, by:  Sean Camelin (Krener) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel this is your first foray into car audio, so alot of research will help in answering your questions.
I'll give an EXTREMELY basic explanation because there is too much detail to be covered in the audio world, at least too much to cover here. The 'wattage' you mention is in relation to a speakers power handling capabilities.

Peak means how much a speaker can handle in an instantaneous burst of power, without frying the speaker coil.
So a speaker can handle a 'peak' of say 50watts, and be ok.
Feed the speaker 50 watts continously it will die on you.
Nominal is the power rating a speaker can handle happily day in and day out without suffering any ill effects.
RMS stands for Root Mean Square.
RMS applies to a number of things, not just speakers and will take a short novel to cover it.
Go here
http://www.the12volt.com/ and have a read, not a bad site and it does cover a fair bit of detail about car audio.

As for speaker prices, you get what you pay for.
Alot of research goes into designing a speaker and it is reflected in price.
Brand names like Boston Acoustic, Alpine, Focal etc are all top quality gear, but purchasing a $1000 set of speakers to listen to thrash metal IMHO is a total waste of money, and speaker.
In this case the referrance speakers you looked at are targeted more at 'audiophiles' who like clarity and overall tonal quality in their music,
as opposed to someone who likes listening to vomitous rubbish like Slipknot.
For that type of music $80 speakers is the better bet.

The HiFonics sub isn't 'really loud' unless you hook up a bucket load of power to it.
It is designed for SPL use requiring several thousand watts of power and would be pointless adding it to a daily driver as you wouldn,t be able to utilise it's handling capabilities without going deaf.

Hope this gives a little bit of light on the info you were after.
Byron Clarke
Tinkerer
NSW
VVTI Turbo

Posts: 16
Reg: 12-2006

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Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 05:42 pm, by:  Byron Clarke (Byron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you both for your suggestion they were both extremely helpful. So am I to understand that the nominal rating and the Root Mean Square are both fairly similar (yet, to an extent, unreliable)?

PS Sean - I also would never allow Slipknot or anything like it play through my speakers
Sean Camelin
TryHard
NT
JZZ30 2.5 GTT-L

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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:34 am, by:  Sean Camelin (Krener) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Byron Clarke wrote on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 05:42 pm:

PS Sean - I also would never allow Slipknot or anything like it play through my speakers




Well said.

Your understanding of nominal and RMS is pretty much on the money.

Ratings are just that, a rating.
Everything behaves differently once installed, and there are an accepted set of guidelines that should be followed after any installation.
The best way to find out about anything, be it car audio or something else is research and questions.
One mans trash is another mans treasure so to speak.
Personally I run a Kenwood headunit, Kenwood dual mag rear speakers, Audison amps, Focal front speakers and a Hertz sub.
This combination gives ME what I want to hear extremely well, yet someone else might like to run a full Alpine system.
Theres ALOT to it, so research is the way to go.
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 425
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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:38 am, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I'm in love with Alpine at the moment
Simon Triantafillou
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 1032
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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:54 am, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good going Leon. I've been using Alpine for over 10 years. My latest install in a Smart car uses only a pair of 5.25" splits and I have people looking for the "sub" which is apparently hidden in the car. At $600 for a pair of splits, it's definitely worth the money. (Same goes for most of their equipment).
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 426
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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 02:41 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep two sets of those DDLinear's are what i'm after for my girl, May settle for type X's, but it will be something good. Going to have a pair of 12" type S's in the boot to start with, running off a pair of Class D's and maybe upgrade to type R's down the track. The single type S in the celica rocks pretty hard, not even running at full capacity as it started drowning out the cabin speakers

As for a comment on that insanely powerful sub up there, well the speakers are the cheap part, it's driving them properly which becomes expensive. You are best matching your speakers to your amp, as that's when you'll get your best results. If your amp is over driving your speaker it will distort and sound crappy, if it's under driving it'll be quiet and sound crappy.
Simon Triantafillou
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Turbo

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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:07 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went Type-X in my last install. I will never use anything below them again. They are just phenomenal.
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 06:02 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome! May look more seriously into the Type X splits. The Subs, well they are so powerful I doubt I'd be able to afford the amps to drive the bastards, that and I'd probably blow my rear boot lid off
Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT)

Posts: 1543
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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 09:37 pm, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Type S subs never did it for me.. TOo less bass :-)

The Type R's however are very decent for their price.

But if you want competition level gear, the Type X series would be perfect!
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

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Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:01 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The type S dual voice coils are nothing to be sneezed at, That's what I have currently in my bunky Celica and damn it makes my eye balls shake when you crank it. The previous type S was good, but nothing on the current!
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
" 238.7rwkw + 2JZ cams = ? "
JZZ30

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:30 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Theres always a difference between 'BASS' and clean bass that does the job without giving you a headache :-) SQ (sound quality) setups wont use a high powered sub, think JL's W series.

Grab a cheap 15" and pump 400wrms through it if you're not after quality sound. Or use a fusion 15 in conjunction with a fusion powerplant 600wrms amp in a small hatch back. Been there, don't want to go back!

Im working on a front stage, Boston SL60 splits (80wrms) with a midrange v-power 4 channel amp. Said to be one of the best splits under $500 RRP.. Any idea on how to fit these into the standard door pod area? What i've drawn up looks okay, but grill area is limited.
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 426
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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 01:48 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cihan what size are those speakers? The main cone that is?

Right now my stereo is just about done.

I've gone with Rockford Fosgate T152S 5.25" splits in the front and T162S 6.5" splits in the rear. Each rated at 100w RMS and excellent frequency specs it should be good.

What I've done with the front speakers is modified the existing door pods to fit the larger speaker so that I can keep the structure of the existing pods and the mounting holes/tabs attached.

I'll be able to tell you for sure on how they sound soon but for subs I've gone to two 10" Rockford Fosgate P3's that will be in sealed enclosures. Will be running about 900w RMS to the pair.

It should be very tight and very clean bass.
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
" 238.7rwkw + 2JZ cams = ? "
JZZ30

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 10:07 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No doubt mate, 10's will sound cleaner than a single 15 or the like. I hear good things about some of the P series rf stuff. 900wrms is in 'blow up ear drum' territory though haha!

SL60's are 6.5", after thinking about it last night im going to try and use some 9mm MDF and rip the standard pod in half (its glued) then mount the mdf and seal with silicon. If there's room ill use a 150mm deep port and try open up the standard grills from inside for some better clarity. Might use some spray on sound deadening on the doors, but they're heavy enough..

I was looking into those jaycar response 4x100wrms amps, 130rms per channel, sn ratio <90db etc. Sounds pretty decent. I've heard they're not the best for sound quality though. From what i've heard they're not bad for the money!
}
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 10:32 am, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/13208/46430.html

Search around, always plenty of info
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 01:49 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Cihan the car is aimed at sounding clean not just DOOF. But with 900w RMS there's plenty there for SPL too.

I actually just separated those pods like you are planning to the other day. It's pretty easy, I just used a heat gun and butter knife. They came apart cleanly and fairly easily and now I've added a MDF top with tabs to maintain the same door structure that was there before.

I'm using an Alpine MRV F540 for the 4 components so plenty of nice clean power as well.

Now the only issue is trying to feed the amps enough juice.
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
" 238.7rwkw + 2JZ cams = ? "
JZZ30

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 06:14 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got an alpine v-power 4x100rms running the boston SL60's and a JLaudio tr690 rear stage (used the 6x9's in hipass). With the new series alpine 9856i head unit its quick to setup and sounds fantastic out of the box running just the rear stage. Front setup isn't quite done, im still sealing off the new pods and making sure they're strudy. None of the wiring has been done yet, and i still have no idea where to mount the amp.

Thought id clean up and re-enforce all the door trimmings with PVA glue before putting it all back together, maybe another 12 or so hours to get it all installed, setup and working the way i want it :-)

Should be sweet!
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 02:54 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah mine will be done by tonight as well so should be great
Leon Wright
TryHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:32 am, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotta get my body kit done before I can do the stereo, driving around with 2 speakers working

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