Soarer Central: Holden GTO Monaro discussion.

Soarer Central Kiwi Corner General Chat Holden GTO Monaro discussion.

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Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
Soarer Limited UZZ31 V8

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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 01:28 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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Here's somewhere to discuss the Monaro that Joe up in another thread, don't want to hijack someone elses thread by going off topic so here we go.

Joe Russell wrote on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 04:48 am:
I am! They're good fun Mike, six speed manual and loads of torque, bout the same body size as the soarer, ride isn't as good(obviously) but such a good car. I'd love one I reckon they're a modern classic.

Your not wrong there!

The early ones came with the LS1 5.7 V8 and later 2005 models the 6.0L Version... something like that anyway.

Definitely be best with the 6 Speed you speak of but I wouldn't complain with an automatic! 4 Speeds are a little outdated now though..

I find an example like this very nice, they hold their value but are very reasonable when you think about it.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Holden/auction-190655658.htm

What I like about them is how they have a clean good looking shape, are not overly complicated and can offer comfort on one hand while being a mad roaring machine when you push them. Much like how the Soarers can be once some upgrades have been done...

Realistically to get a good GTO, you would be looking at 40k for a manual. Only reason it would be acceptable to go for an automatic is if it was cheaper than usual.

Then again he CV8's are an equally good car that tend to be a little cheaper by being a bit more soft, essentially the same thing. They tend to be around the 20-35k mark. But mostly seem to be 4 speed autos? The only thing I don't like about these Holdens is that you need to go 2004+ as the older models have the nasty curvy interior while the newer ones have the squared up interior that's far better looking.

They CV8's are 350BHP with 370ft/lb of torque, fairly impressive while the 6.0L V8 GTO's are 400BHP and have 390ft/lb. Some serious torque there!

For that money though...... youu could stick to a Lexus/Toyota and spend 10-20k upgrading it to get some serious performance out of it. Definitely would be a huge bang for buck! Quality, Reliability all in one plus performance!

Matt Petersen
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 03:42 pm, by: Matt Petersen (Mattmannz)

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I was tempted by one but the trouble is the interiors are ••••• The build quality and the materials are very average.

I will have spent 20ishk as upgrades on my Soarer so would be close to a CV8 but hopefully will end up with a better overall car.

Resale will prolly be worse on the Soarer but that's life.

No doubt once I bought a CV8 I would end up doing exhaust, suspension, wheels so it would cost more than you think.

Matt.

Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 03:57 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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Exactly Matt, I agree.

In the long run Soarers are still better value, simply they are a car which is 10-15 years older than newish ones like these Holdens out there so they will require more repairs and have already heavily depreciated. In this scenario I find they are more enjoyable, I love pulling things apart and repairing them back to their former 'new' status. These can easily be the better car at the end of the day across the board, especially if you upgrade them too.

By the way Matt, how is the M90 setup going?

Matt Petersen
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 05:26 pm, by: Matt Petersen (Mattmannz)

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Hi Mike.

I will do a build thread when I get it all completed.

I had three days on the car about a month ago and made some great progress but didn't finish it unfortunately and ended up putting it back to stock.

Since then I have done nothing with it as work is killing me. Here is a pic of it mostly all together.

I ran into a problem with how the cold start injector had been setup, it was hitting the coolant hard line that runs in the valley so I need to send the manifold away and get it welded up and redrilled.

Once that is done all that should be left to do is make new fuel rail lines that join the two rails together then I should be good to go. I will do a full writeup then and post the pics I have got.

Matt.

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Mike Beck
Goo Roo
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 05:57 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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Heh, I guess that is the nature with these kind of projects, just a process of illumination until everything fits & works as they should.

Fantastic to see the old charger fitted, rather tidy work that's been done on the rear manifold between the TB and S/C.

:-)

Joe Russell
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 06:48 pm, by: Joe Russell (Joe_r)

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Some decent research there Mike

I think the Monaros will probably hold their price quite well, so in my case the Soarer is easily the best choice. Which is fine by me, because I hate getting into the stupid ford/holden fanboy battle that occurs

It's quite interesting how alike the Soarer and Monaro are, the Aussie a little more sharp yet bulky, as is the engine, and the Jap sleek and rather advanced, as is the engine.

And both great fun

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Matt Petersen
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 06:59 pm, by: Matt Petersen (Mattmannz)

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Thanks Mike.

I made the throttlebody adapter myself. I had to make a minor mod to it when I fitted it up to clear a fuel rail fitting.

I am looking forward to getting it running. Already planning the next power upgrade as I know the 45 or so kw will be nice for a while but I will want more quickly!

Matt

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Mike Beck
Goo Roo
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 07:43 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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I suppose the gain in torque will be the main advantage too, any idea of what gains your looking at there?

Very nice workmanship Matt, you have some good skills!

Interestingly enough this is almost exactly the design I had in mind for when I was planning to S/C my Soarer. Still, I guess there is not much else you can do with the tight space behind there.

What did you make it out of?

Matt Petersen
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Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 07:56 pm, by: Matt Petersen (Mattmannz)

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Thanks Mike.

The one I got with the manifold was made out of 3in tubing and went about 35mm deeper. I wanted to retain some space, after trial fitting mine I can't see how the other one would have fitted.

The bolt you can see is the top mount of the idle control valve which is relocated from the front of the manifold.

The flanges are 3mm plate and the RHS is 75x75 OD with 3mm wall.

I flared out a small section of 75mm tube to connect to the box. The flange for the throttlebody is too small to allow direct connection of the 75x75.

I am actually going to modify it slightly to give me more room and taper the angled plate at the back further in, and reduce the 75x75 down to 75*70 which should give the same volume as the 75mm ID tube.

I can't take credit for the tigging, I tacked it up with the mig and got someone I know to tig it up for me.

I have also threaded in a fitting for a vacum port for the pcv valve which isn't shown in the pic.

Matt.

Timothy Barnes
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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 06:22 am, by: Timothy Barnes (Timmo1)

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I always got the feeling that the Monaro could have just been so much better!....It has all the right ingredients (well, Im not much of a fan of large but crude engines) but the final product is just too much like a Commodore! It looks like a Commodore, accelerates like one, handles like one etc etc...

Cut out some of the weight, lower that roof line make it go harder/handle better than a Commodore otherwise what is the point...

JMTCW

Alex Barbieri
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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 09:35 am, by: Alex Barbieri (Barbieros)

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So much better like this?

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2845/article.html

David Shaw
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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 09:42 am, by: David Shaw (Shawy)

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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!!! Now that is one sexy, beast of a Monaro

:-)

Love the clean and seemingly stock engine bay! That's a sleeper engine, wrapped in a hardcore body for sure (even thought the Monaro engine already pumps out a relatively large amount of power).

Brett Harrison
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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 08:07 pm, by: Brett Harrison (Bretto)

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I actually drive a monaro a fair bit.
Pretty good car.
But there are so many lemons in the GEN 3 world it isn't funny, just google piston slap, ring failure etc. So many poor buggers get burned by them. My mates monaro got 50k, then needed a full engine replacement, and this is by no means unusual. Not sure if the newer Gen IV's are any better. Personally I would love a 3.8 supercharged one, now that is a great engine, strong and reliable, and tonnes of different hardware to std V6 commodores.

Mike Beck
Goo Roo
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Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 02:42 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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^ Piston slap, ring failure?! How scary.

Sounds like the odd BMW 745i, a man I was working with mentioned a friend of his had one and the piston blew or something, needed a entire new motor! had less than 60,000ks......

Timothy Barnes
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Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:16 pm, by: Timothy Barnes (Timmo1)

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bwahahahah
The old buick 3.8 engine wasn't good! Plentiful yes. Reasonably reliable yes. Good? Nope....even in a tractor it would have felt too agricultural.

For comparison, the Mitsi 3.8 V6 produced more power and torque was wayyyyyy smoother and used less fuel without a supercharger IIRC.

Timothy Barnes
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Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:18 pm, by: Timothy Barnes (Timmo1)

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Alex....hmm nope, not really my idea of better. The problem, IMO, with the Monaro wasn't because it didn't have enough grunt, it was because it didnt use the capacity it did have to extract any sort of decent numbers.

Throwing more power at problems is a cop out I think.

Brett Harrison
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Friday, December 12, 2008 - 09:20 pm, by: Brett Harrison (Bretto)

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Its the same damn technology, from the same people.
My point is, they don't brake anywhere near as often as the Gen 3's, which is probably the most over rated engine of all time.

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