Author |
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Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 681 Reg: 09-2005
| Great build Tai. If I am not mistaken we met a long time ago when you bought a no-brand strut brace from me (or might be someone else with a black jzz30 in Brisbane) - before you underwent this epic build. I also just finished my upgrade and your car is so similar, yet so different to mine. Very cool. |
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo SA Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell
Posts: 4049 Reg: 04-2006
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Sebastian Grant wrote on Monday, December 26, 2016 - 07:23 am: I have gone the 1.5j route myself with a brand new bottom end from Toyota.
What did the brand new bottom end cost you? I almost bought one in Adelaide a couple of years ago when someones project took a different turn. |
Sebastian Grant
Goo Roo nsw soarer TT
Posts: 2270 Reg: 01-2008
| It cost me $2500 Ben. I'm pretty sure it came from Adelaide so I might have the one you were looking at. You can still buy them from Toyota I believe. You can even buy new 2j heads as well if your pockets are deep enough. |
Evan Kaio
Goo Roo Quiwiland NZ 91 UZZ31 92 JZZ30 91 UZZ30S/C 96 ToyoAce 74 Stout (project)
Posts: 1174 Reg: 01-2007
| I like catching up on this build thread. Lots of relevant info. Myself, I have purchased a 2JZGTE block and wanting to go down the 1.5JZ road. So looking forward to future posts. |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1702 Reg: 04-2006
| Cheers guys, Yes Jason, that was me what have you done to yours? Wow, $2500 isn't too bad! If I knew that I probably would have got one! This one cost me $1500 and I plan on doing a relatively low budget build. I will just get the head reconditioned and ARP head studs and new gaskets and water pump etc. I am trying to start a little side project interfacing with the Haltech Elite ECU's to show live engine data over CAN which could be quite cool if it works out how I want. I know there are quite a few products on the market, but they are all quite expensive, or OBD2 and quite limited and slow. I don't want to use a smart phone, just a tiny little screen that you can mount or integrate into the dash or replace the clock or something. I had a prototype working over OBD2 but it suffered from drop outs and used a third party product. Anyone with mad Arduino skills feel free to hit me up as i'm still learning This was the OBD2 version https://youtu.be/A7JOtqj_09I https://youtu.be/SxFIwW-hCUE |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 682 Reg: 09-2005
| Ah. I thought it was you, not many black on black soarers in Brisbane. What have I done to mine? Too long to list - See profile. You will see a lot of similar items |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1704 Reg: 04-2006
| Wow, that is uncanny! How does the 7670 go on the 2J? Do you have any pics etc? You should come to the next All Jap Day in Banyo |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 683 Reg: 09-2005
| |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 684 Reg: 09-2005
| 7670 matched well with the 2J taking into account what I wanted; which was response. Turbo spools at 2k, and all the way up to red line. Power delivery was linear unless WOT. Currently at around 360 with intake temperature spiking due to the LS spec greddy intercooler not efficient after 20psi. |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1705 Reg: 04-2006
| Nice job man What RPM does it see 14 PSI on 98? (this is kind of my benchmark for comparing the boost threshold of a turbo setup to stock turbos) 360KW? On e85 or 98? Do you have a graph? Interesting regarding the air intake temperature.. Where is the sensor? I have replaced the stock sensor with an open element one in the same location and it still heat soaks from the manifold like a bastard and makes the ECU perform incorrect calculations.. The temp just increases with run time and stationary can get above 75 deg C on a 20 degree day. Once you get on the gas and get some airflow over the sensor it drops down but it's still bogus. Regarding the ECU it thinks "Jeez! The air is 75 degrees, so it's pretty hot and 'thin' and it still needs this much fuel to achieve my target AFR, I'll learn that.." (when in fact it's 30 degrees and just reading wrong..) So when the air temp sensor reads 20 to 30 degrees which is normal it adds waaaaaay too much fuel because it thinks "there must be even MORE air now it's cooler" and it just over fuels. Hence why I have turned off 'automatic air temp VE calc' until I relocate the sensor into the intercooler pipe. |
Sebastian Grant
Goo Roo nsw soarer TT
Posts: 2271 Reg: 01-2008
| Is the standard air intake temp sensor on the intake manifold? If so have you thought about getting a phenolic (not sure if that's spelt right? Intake manifold gasket to try and keep the heat away from the manifold? |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 685 Reg: 09-2005
| 360kw is on e85. 320kw on 98; although same issue with the intake temperature. No graph, didn't ask for one as I was there during the dyno. Not sure about the 14psi on 98 as I have not run 98 since the upgrade - e85 is available beside my office. The factory intake temperature sensor is on the intake manifold at the engine side near a hose connecting engine and intake. Do you reckon the intercooler is not undersized but rather that the sensor is providing inaccurate values? |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1706 Reg: 04-2006
| Yeah, i'd be very surprised if the intercooler wasn't holding up.. Do you have any logs of the dyno pulls? That way you could see if it is rising through a pull, or is just high from heat soak. Phenolic gaskets seem like they would be way more hassle than just relocating the sensor into the pre-throttle body intercooler piping. I did a log for you Jason so you can see the heat soak. This is a cold start at 30 deg this afternoon.
The slow rise to 16 mins is just idling in the car park, the sharp dips down after that are when the engine is revving and moving air over the sensor. So far every pull I have seen the temperature drops. Once the sensor is relocated I would expect the temp to rise with boost levels and intercooler heat soak. |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1707 Reg: 04-2006
| I also think it's time for a new battery....
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Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1708 Reg: 04-2006
| This is my drive to work this morning... You get the idea.. It's useless
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Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1709 Reg: 04-2006
| Aside from the new battery and the air temp sensor relocation I have been interested in what my oil pressure is doing as I think it's kinda on the high side. (I occasionally get some smoking out the exhaust on a cold engine and moderate load) On a cold start and drive off with only moderate throttle (say 3,000rpm) the oil pressure can go above 650kPa (close enough to 100psi) So I have logged the oil pressure on a cold start and i'm going to change the weight of the oil to 10w30 and see what effect this has. This graph is with the current oil (Penrite HPR10 10w50)
You might also notice that my coolant temp is a bit on the high side too... I have been struggling with this for a while. I have replaced the thermostat, temp sensor, new fenix radiator etc and still no change. I now believe that it may be the stock clutch fan hub slipping more than it should. It moves way more with a small shove than the 7M Aerocabin one. Before you say "just put some thermofans on it" .... No.. In my opinion, the OEM engine fan and shrouded radiator will move far more air, so i'm going to try and refill the hub with silicone. I had no idea how these worked until I did some reading and they are actually pretty amazing. I have ordered 2 tubes of toyota silicone (08816-10001) which should fix my lazy fan. If this fails I will make a proper aluminium shroud with some kick ass fans and solid state relays so I can PWM as the temperature increases so achieve a nice solid temp rather than the annoying on-off cycling of the standard thermo setups. |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 686 Reg: 09-2005
| Definitely agree with the fan shroud and clutch fan. I retained that setup for the same reason. I recently replaced the clutch fan as the old one had locked up and basically spins with the gas pedal... Hahaha. Imagine the sound during WOT. Did some research on the IAT sensor and it's definitely recommended to do a haltech sensor before the plenum. I don't have the logs as the car was tuned by my workshop and I have not even touched the haltech. Will do the sensor relocation soon and see what happens. |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1710 Reg: 04-2006
| I looked at getting a replacement too, but $500 seemed a bit much... My two tubes of silicone arrived this today so I thought i'd have a crack. This is the fan HOT ... Way too much slip. https://youtu.be/Mcs1biIgCfM |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1711 Reg: 04-2006
| I removed the fan assy from the car and the removed the blades from the hub. The bit in the center is a bi-metallic strip that rotates a vane to open and close a port depending on the temperature. The 4 philips head screws that hold the two halves together were very tight, make sure you have the correct sized bit.
There is basically no silicone fluid in here.. This is the 'drive' side of the hub that connects to the car. It has a disc with grooves and fins on it which pump the fluid out and the fins interface with the 'driven' side with the silicone fluid coupling the two.
This is the 'driven' side that attaches to the fan blades. The center is a reservoir for the fluid and the black part in the middle in connected to the bi-metallic strip. When the strip heats up it opens the port allowing the fluid to be pushed out to the edges. There are return ports on the outer most parts that return the fluid to the center. When the car is shut off the port closes and on next start up the spinning motion pumps the fluid back to the center, but now it cant leave and allows slip to let the engine warm up quicker and save a bit of juice and horsepower. Pretty clever!!
The two philips head screws you can see are to adjust the temperature at which the port opens, I may play with these to get them open a bit sooner. Filling
Unfortunately 2 bottles didn't quite fill the reservoir, but the difference is very noticeable. https://youtu.be/qGN3LyY2bdQ I'll check out the temperatures when I get the next bottle and fill it completely. |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 687 Reg: 09-2005
| $500? It's $285 shipped from UAE using Amayama. It's a vital cooling component, I'll prefer to have a new one just to be sure. |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 688 Reg: 09-2005
| Still quite interesting to see how the clutch fan works. Anyway, I noticed my engine and turbo combo seemed to result in very close power outputs (around 10kw) on 98ron @ 20psi, even though I have slightly bigger displacement and bigger turbo. Wondering if there might be an issue with my setup... Hmmm. |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1712 Reg: 04-2006
| Maybe you got the last one...?
I wouldn't read too much into the power figures, there are so many variations.. |
Jason Cheah
DieHard QLD JZZ31 Slightly Modified
Posts: 689 Reg: 09-2005
| My bad - I thought the fan clutch on the 2JZGTE would be the same. Different part number 16210-46030. It looks almost the same? |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1713 Reg: 04-2006
| I'm sure it would be almost identical. Maybe just a different depth or temp setting? I have been reading up more on thermo fans and I may have been too caught up on airflow. I still believe that a OEM clutch fan can move more air than most thermos, but here is the difference. It's relative to the engine. The problem I seem to be having is that at low engine speed (idle) the fan spins so slow it doesn't pull enough air through to keep it below 90 deg. A thermo fan can pull it's rated air at any time, and where a clutch fan can overtake the thermo the car would most likely be going fast enough to cool itself from forward speed alone and hence save fuel and power. I always thought the trend towards thermos were for cost and packaging only, but freedom of control also seems likely. I am still seeing 96 degrees at idle even though the fan is pulling more air, and the fan is much more audible at 3000rpm and seems to sit at 91 degrees most of the time now. I am almost certain it will keep the temps in check now on the dyno due to the increased air flow. (load tuning and long pulls would see 105 deg C and we'd have to let it cool down) I think as a stop gap I might add a "pusher" fan in front of the radiator for when i'm stationary, but when I do the 1.5J I might bite the bullet and do a properly shrouded twin thermo setup with PWM control as I mentioned before so there is no annoying power cycling and rules like @ > 80km/h no fan, under 80 deg c, no fan etc. |
Tai Johnsen
Goo Roo QLD JZZ30 Pov Manual LSD & black! + 89 Z20 Aerocabin
Posts: 1715 Reg: 04-2006
| I had a bit of a win today with my side CAN display side project. Successfully communicating with the Elite 2500 and displaying some data via Serial to the PC.
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