Friday, March 11, 2011 - 09:45 am, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Hi, I am experimenting with HHO (hydroxy gas on my 31 and have not been able to get the responses that I am after with the efie (electronic fuel injection enhancer) that adds to the oxygen sensor signal on its way to the ecu. Those who are in any way familiar with the hydrogen oxygen systems will know what I mean. Is there anyone else on S.C. that has done anything with HHO? I would love to talk to you if there is. My wiring diagram is for the SC400 (U.S. version) and it seems to tell me that on the U.S. model there are different oxy sensors with heaters. Is this right? My sensors white wire for the lest bank and red wire for the right bank read 0.84 mV for the right bank and 0.74 mV for the left bank when they leave the O2 sensor but when they arrive at the efie they are only reading 0.3 mV for the right and 0.2 mV for the left. Why the drop and by the time they get through the efie there is virtually no signal left, only what the efie has added?? Have I wired up to the wrong red and white wire to the ECU points 46 and 47? It would be great to dialogue with any one who has dabbled with this or even better with someone who has succeeded with HHo on a V8 soarer or Lexus or other V8 Toyota. Lets hear from you. Cheers John
Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 12:40 am, by: Ben Ristic(Risben)
The point of the EFIE is to make the standard ECU think that your engine's running richer than it is. The reason for this is the extra oxygen present in the HHO being fed to the engine causes the oxy sensors to read lean. By rights both sensors should be about 0.45V each when in closed loop mode (ie warm and running) - the fact they're reading high indicates you were measuring straight after startup?
Regardless, the test point under the bonnet will let you chek the voltage presented to the ECU, which should be of more importance IMHO. I've forgotten which particular points they are, but I know they're their.
I'm responding out of interest. I haven't tried HHO yet, but would like to one day. Mind if I ask where you got your kit from and how much you paid for it?
Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 04:04 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Hi Ben, Thanks for communicating. Just to clear things up a bit so we are talking the same language: Many people think that the extra oxygen that is going in with the Hydrogen is what the oxy sensor is measuring but I am led to believe in fact that it is measuring a better burn in the cylinder than it is programmed to read so it assumes that there is not enough fuel. Nasa have released a paper that ends the argument about whether there is advantage to be had in using HHO; there is. See http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com for all kinds of info on this subject. You mention the test point under the bonnet where you can read the signal that the ecu is getting from the O2 sensor. Is this the OBD test point that you are referring to? If so, how would I find out which points I hook up to to get that reading? After working on this system for 3 months now and 3 other systems before it I have not been able to achieve my goals. I have worked through a number of hicups but have absolutely no improvement in economy. I am thinking that the answer lies with the Air flow meter but am over it for a while as have been spending so much time on it I need a rest from it to build my faith for it again. I will probably put a resister on the signal for the AFM and see it that helps. I get 10 klms per litre at best on a straight highway run with no real variations of speed and about 8 kilos per litre with spirited driving on the highway. About 6 - 7 1/2 kilos around town depending on whether it gets warm enough to go off open loop I suppose. I bought my system from Hydrogen Garage in the U.S. It uses a 13 plate design (6 x 8 inch plates). I have spend about $500 so far with extra bits and pieces. I need to make up a system to measure how much HHO I am making but it should be making about 1 1/2 ltrs at 15 amps. This should be plenty if it is making what it should. What is your home phone number and I will ring you on my voip phone and have a chat if you are interested. Cheers John
Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 04:14 pm, by: Allan Langford(Allan)
and how much extra fuel do you burn to make the extra 15 amps from the alternator?
someone once said "every action has an equal and opposite reaction"
you would getter better fuel savings buy just spraying the water into the engine under cruise and letting the O2 sensors pull back the then slightly rich mixture and keeping the advanced timing.
Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 05:44 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Hi Allan, There are countless testimonies of people having saved 30 to 40 % with HHO, I am just not one of them, my best is 20% on my 2JZ engine in my VL Holden in Thailand which runs on LPG. LPG does not show as good a gain as does petrol. Do you have a water injection system working? I had one years ago on a Datson 240k. I would be interested in doing this again but would like to see the different systems that people are using today. When I used a water injection system called "Misty" I went from about 22 mpg to 25 mpg with it. I expect to get much more economy with HHO than with just water. The issue with HHO is that it gives a better burn and more power out of your fuel. Yes, it takes energy to get energy but not necessarily in the way that we have been led to believe with conventional physics that claim that we need to achieve "over unity". I know a guy who has an XD falcon (carburetor version with no ECU to contend with) that gets 69 miles per gallon using just hydrogen separated from the co manufactured Oxygen in his separator cell. I got 50% saving when I put a simple wet cell system on a friend's early Datsun Sunny that had a carby rather than injection with an ecu. Remember Einstein broke through into a new realm of understanding as have many who go further than those before them. I am looking for help from those who have succeeded with a 1UZFE V8 or who are interested in trying to get HHO to work on this motor. I have had advise that I should go to the new separator cell that uses just the Hydrogen that is separated out from the oxygen during the electrolysis. But having gone a long way down the track with this already proven system(on many vehicles)rather than to start again with more financial outlay. I need to discover the secrets for using HHO on this engine. Cheers John
Friday, March 25, 2011 - 07:11 am, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Hi Allan, Sorry for any offense in writing style, certainly do not want to appear unfriendly. In saying that I am looking for help from those who have succeeded or are interested in succeeding with HHO I concede that that statement sounds a bit harsh. Please forgive me. Can you suggest other ways forward in the quest to save fuel? Cheers John
Friday, March 25, 2011 - 12:07 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Yes Daren, At is a VVTI late model with a 4.1 diff too out of a Toyota pick up, and does it go!. Great combination but I will change the diff to give me better economy when I get back there.
I have just fitted LPG injection for more power but economy is worse than using the normal LPG mixer set up, which runs independent of the ECU.
The sensors on the VVTI need the LPG to run through the ECU , which doesn't happen when you use a standard mixer set up, so I decided after trying many different things to put the injection system on.
The problem with the VVTI motor is that when you run just an LPG mixer it gets confused when you flatten it to overtake someone, running out of breath. This is partly caused by the small intake hole on mixers (29 mil is as big as you can go), rather than the full size intake that you get without LPG. It also seems to be a problem with the sensors not working properly because you are tuning things yourself rather than relying on the ECU as you brain. When you fit injection you run a piggy back ecu and this allows you to tune the problem out so that there is instant power when you want it. Not easy to tune for both power and economy though, so economy goes down. I will be working on this when I get back there.
I didn't know all of this when I chose the VVTI for the engine swap (This model Commodore in Thailand came with the N.Z. 2 ltr Nissan engine, so not enough power to run on LPG when you are climbing mountain ranges or just wanting to get past huge slow transports on narrow highways. It reminds me of Australian roads 40 year ago but now the highways have removed many of these black spots.
Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 05:43 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Darren, Believe it or not I am a preacher. I gave us a great paying job to go and run training programs for those who want to know and serve God effectively. My life has been completely changed since I asked Christ to take over as boss. There is a lot of religion in the world but I am at getting people into a real relationship with a living God through trusting Jesus Christ to be the boss in their lives. My wife and I don't push a religious system of rules. We love what we do. We preach that Jesus is the only way to eternal life and in the process we see many healed and set free not only from physical sickness but also from all kinds of bitterness that life can bring out way. Its a great life. We come and go from Australia doing the same thing here. Hope that is a good enough answer. My Soarer is my hobby. Great car. Cheers John
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