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Ben Lipman
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 54
Reg: 04-2006

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 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:29 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
At the recent Sydney cruise I complained about water marks in my glass I can't get rid of. Someone pointed out it was probably marks from acid rain in Japan. Since then I have been trying various methods to remove these marks.

Nothing worked until I tried some stuff I found under the stacker in the boot. It is a Rain-X product but most of the bottle is in Japanese. The only english words are "the ceramic silicon remover". There was only a little bit in the bottle. I only tried it on the rear quarter glass, but it seems to work.

Has anyone heard of this stuff before? Are there any side effects I need to know about before I go and put it on other glass areas?

If no one knows I'll just leave it a few days and see what happens.
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 1436
Reg: 09-2005

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 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 10:26 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
RAh!

I cant remember the name of the stuff; but one of the fellows who works at Distinctive (Soarer importer in WA) rubbed some liquid crap on my headlights the other day. One wipe and they were clear!
Perhaps its a similar solvent?

Ill see if i can track down the name.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 1143
Reg: 10-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 06:31 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Ben Lipman wrote on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:29 pm:

At the recent Sydney cruise I complained about water marks in my glass I can't get rid of. Someone pointed out it was probably marks from acid rain in Japan. Since then I have been trying various methods to remove these marks.



Glass is pretty much non-reactive with even the strongest acids so its not likely to be caused by acid rain. Could just be bad calcium deposits - might be hard to get off without scratching the glass.
Katrina Bruns
DieHard
SD
Cobalt LS 2.2 L

Posts: 577
Reg: 08-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 09:13 am, by:  Katrina Bruns (Katrina) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
My soarer in Japan had marks on the window.. but I never ventured to guess what it was from. The rain was never a welcome thing there though
Haydn Crandell
TryHard
NSW
TT 2.5

Posts: 451
Reg: 11-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 09:20 am, by:  Haydn Crandell (Haydn) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
use a razor blade
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
Emanage is tha good.
JZZ30

Posts: 1004
Reg: 07-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 10:40 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Ive tried "autosol" on the rear windscreen, its that gold tube of metal polish
Clears up the acid rain/calcium deposits with a bit of elbow grease. I still havent been bothered doing the whole thing, just one spot down the bottom left corner and its come up brand new clean.

Just make sure you dont get any on the rubber seals around the area.

Callum, are you talking about scratch-X? or plastic-X? I use them on panels to clear clearcoat blemishes and headlights respectively, both work great.
John Street
Tinkerer
NSW
V8 UZZ31 Limited

Posts: 94
Reg: 08-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:57 pm, by:  John Street (Rex2ce) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Ben,
At the cruise it was said that " Sol Ace ",
the window tinting people, polish it off for a reasonable cost.
Cheers
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 358
Reg: 07-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 05:06 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Quote - "Glass is pretty much non-reactive with even the strongest acids"

Except HF.

Callum let us know about that headlight cleaner.
Ben Lipman
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 56
Reg: 04-2006

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 07:00 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Well I tried the rain-x product on my headlights and it cleaned them up pretty well. I have done the whole quarter glass and has worked there.

This stuff is a thick white liquid a bit like watered down toothpaste.

I am half expecting to wake up tomorrow with horrible yellow stains or something, knowing my luck.

John- yeah I know some one said sol-ace could do it (at a cost) but I like to do my own work where possible. Its like a really long, painful, frustrating voyage of discovery.
John Street
Tinkerer
NSW
V8 UZZ31 Limited

Posts: 95
Reg: 08-2005

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 Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 08:06 pm, by:  John Street (Rex2ce) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Good luck Columbus!
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 1153
Reg: 10-2005

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 Friday, June 23, 2006 - 06:42 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Shane McInnes wrote on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 05:06 pm:

Quote - "Glass is pretty much non-reactive with even the strongest acids"

Except HF.



True, but I'd be wondering how the hell hydrofluoric acid got on my car window!
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 363
Reg: 07-2005

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 Friday, June 23, 2006 - 05:51 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
lol good point. id be running for the hills if it was.
Ben Daniel
TryHard
WA
TT

Posts: 236
Reg: 03-2006

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 Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 12:19 pm, by:  Ben Daniel (Lexustt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Try Megiars Acrylic Glass cleaner, its in a small light blue bottle. Will do the Job.
Mike Triggs
DieHard
Norfolk Island
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 661
Reg: 07-2005

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 Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 08:26 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Matthew Sharpe wrote on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 06:42 am:

Shane McInnes wrote on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 05:06 pm:

Quote - "Glass is pretty much non-reactive with even the strongest acids"

Except HF.

Hydrofluoric acid is actually a weak acid, if I remember my uni chemistry correctly:-)

The deposits on the windscreen are most likely calcium, as has been mentioned. I used to get them from hard water in western NSW.



True, but I'd be wondering how the hell hydrofluoric acid got on my car window!

Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 385
Reg: 07-2005

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 Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 08:46 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
lol are you for real Mike.

Hydrofluoric Acid is one of the most dangerous if not the Most dangerous Acid there is. It is used in Glass etching. It eats through Glass which im not sure many other Acids do.

It doesnt burn your skin, but it sinks in through your skin and burns your bones though, You have to be quick if thats happens, or you gonna go through a hell of alota pain and risk some serious damage. Atleast with normal acids it only burns you skin and you can wash it off with water.

Its very very very Nasty.

You could be mistaken for Hydrochloric Acid though, that is fairly weak its strongest strength is only 32%
Ben Lipman
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 59
Reg: 04-2006

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 Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 09:34 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Hydrofluoric, hydrochloric, acid, smacid. I don't care what it is, I just know it is hard to get off and annoying when you know its there.

The mystery rain-x product has worked on both the windows and lights with a bit of elbow grease. I will save the rain-x for the headlights and look for the Meguiars stuff when I get the chance or inclination to do so.

The calcium idea may not be too far from the mark. I expect it will probably happen again as there is all types of sh!t in the air/rain around here. I live in the middle of the largest coal producing region in the world(hunter valley- I wonder what really is in the wine!). Every week I clean the black crap off three cars. The roller door is apparently painted white not grey as I first thought.
Mike Triggs
DieHard
Norfolk Island
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 667
Reg: 07-2005

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 Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 06:51 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Quoting from a chemistry site:

"Hydrochloric acid is a strong acid. Strong acids are strong electrolytes, which, for most purposes, are assumed to ionize completely in water. In this case, HCl ionizes completely to hydrogen ions, H+ and chloride ions, Cl-. The reaction is better represented as hydrochloric acid donating an H+ to water, producing hydronium ion, H3O+, and chloride ion. The role of water in this reaction was not shown to simplify the animation. You can think of H+ as a shorthand representation of H3O+.

Hydrofluoric acid is a weak acid. Weak acids are weak electrolytes, which only ionize to a limited extent in water. At equilibrium, a hydrofluoric acid solution contains mostly non-ionized acid molecules, HF, and a small amount of hydrogen ions H+, and the conjugate base ions F-. This reaction is better represented as hydroflouric acid donating a proton to water, producing hydronium H3O+ and a flouride ion. Remember that weak acids only partially ionize in water. The role of water in this reaction was not shown to simplify the animation. You can think of H+ as a shorthand representation of H3O+."

The characteristics of HF attacking glass and penetrating human skin has nothing to do with the strength of the acid (as defined above). From memory hydrosulphuric acid is also weak but poisonous.
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
Emanage is tha good.
JZZ30

Posts: 1036
Reg: 07-2005

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 Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 07:47 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Yeah agreed Mike, i was under the impression that the 'strengh' of an acid was determined by its Ph rating ie. how acidic or basic it was, based on how its willingness to dontate ions.

Thats just basic vce chem though, i've got no idea beyond that scope.

It was also well pronounced back then that hydrochloric and sulphric acid were the stronger ones available, being easier to create in high molar concentrations.

Regarding the windows, calcium deposit buildup makes a lot of sense to me. Calcium is an alkaline metal right? Maybe why metal polish is cleaning it off my windows?

Cheers.
Mike Triggs
DieHard
Norfolk Island
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 668
Reg: 07-2005

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 Monday, July 03, 2006 - 05:53 am, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Pretty right Cihan, strength of acid is related to the number of H+ floating around, HCl strongly dissociates in water(becoming H+ and Cl-, simplified) while HF merely dissolves in the water and only supplies a few ions.

As for calcium deposits, they could come from calcium sulphate, which is nearly insoluble in water. The calcium is present in water in a soluble form (maybe hydrogen carbonate?) and when you wash the car it finds sulphate ions and turns into 'orrible white splodges.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 1207
Reg: 10-2005

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 Monday, July 03, 2006 - 07:08 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Yes, Hydroflouric acid is classed as a weak acid (for reasons already discussed) but will dissolve silocates, and as little as 2% skin exposure (so a small splash) has been known to kill, so its super deadly.
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 389
Reg: 07-2005

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 Monday, July 03, 2006 - 05:33 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Yeah if you look at it that way Mike yeah its weak.

But it still eats through Glass which is why i 1st stated it when Matthew said Glass is pretty much non reactive with Acid, And it still causes the most damage to the human body compared to HCL.

Id rather have HCL splash/spill (execept eyes ofcourse) on me any day of the week then HF.

Quite interesting that it is classed as a weak acid though. I never knew that as ive dealt with it for 4yrs. We always class it as a very dangerous toxic acid because what it does to you.
Ive never looked into the fact how weak it is. I just knew it eats Glass and Bones. Guess it makes sense since most Acids actually burn your skin and HF doesnt.
Mike Triggs
DieHard
Norfolk Island
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 671
Reg: 07-2005

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 Monday, July 03, 2006 - 06:23 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Despite Uni chemistry I've not had anything to do with HF and didn't miss it. I have seen quite a few of the results though0- lots of shops here have glass etchings- a fascinating process.
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 390
Reg: 07-2005

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 Monday, July 03, 2006 - 06:44 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I hate working with HF...its only every blue moon i gotta work with it but still hate it...Was worse in the Manufacturing Area as it was a stronger %, im glad its not a everyday thing i work with compared to the other Acids i work with everyday.

Ive never seen the result of Glass etching with HF. I work in the Plating Industry.

Ahwell Back on Topic.
Chris Confaloniere
Tinkerer
QLD
EB V8 GT

Posts: 9
Reg: 07-2006

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 Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 06:06 am, by:  Chris Confaloniere (Chrisconfal) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Im a detailer and have been for the last 2 or so years, and the best thing to get watermarks off windows (acid rain etc), is a very light steel wool, and to not use much pressure or you risk scratching the glass, but it does work i do it at least once a week on customers cars with bad marks
Roger Costello
TryHard
WA
UZZ31 V8 Limited

Posts: 292
Reg: 07-2005

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 Friday, July 14, 2006 - 03:57 pm, by:  Roger Costello (Roger) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I had badly water marked/etched windows straight off the boat and the only method to work out of about 10 or so I've tried is polishing the glass surface with very high quality stainless steel polishing compound using a power buffer. Hand polishing also works but takes a long long time.

You have to mask off all the bits around the glass and prevent the abrasive polish from getting anywhere it shouldn't. The best stuff I've tried so far is Spring (Swiss-hard to find but excellent) stainless steel polish. I am sure there are better products but the local glass polishing guru is understandably keeping them a secret. It took about half an hour of buffing while keeping the glass wet with a spray bottle of water to get the rear window clear enough to use.

On my car the only way to remove the marking was to physically remove the damaged top layer of glass. Novus have a contractor here who will do the whole car for about $300 using a similar method. His advice was to try "Gumption" (most supermarkets stock it) first and if that did not remove the marks they would have to be power buffed out. Don't try Gumption on your plastic headlights as it scratched the Sh*t out of mine, it did remove all the yellow film but the scratches were deep and took hours to polish out with Mothers plastic polish.

I have no idea what did the damage originally and most watermarks on other Soarers I've seen have come off without the same drama. Under a 100x microscope you can see the surface of the glass on my car is etched. The paintwork was similarly affected but conventional methods worked fine as the clear-coat is a lot softer than glass.

Do not try this unless the glass is absolutely clean first and use a good mask to protect yourself.

Later model Soarers had water repellent glass and probably should not be cleaned with this method as it could remove the coating.
Adam Underwood
TryHard
Victoria
V8

Posts: 247
Reg: 10-2005

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 Monday, July 17, 2006 - 10:53 pm, by:  Adam Underwood (Adam_underwood) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I just got the windows tinted and the tinter pointed out some acid rain marks on the windows. He got some very fine steel wool and kittens car polish and gave it a good scrub and wipe they came right off. He only did a small patch to show me, he also said some can be much more difficult and also recommended rain-x.
Min Park
Tinkerer
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 35
Reg: 04-2007

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 Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 06:06 pm, by:  Min Park (Everfree) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I just had these to fix it

1) Kitten CUT/POLISH
2) a piece T-Shirt

My windows was just full of that bloody marks...(was really really terrible)
One day, when I was buffing tiny scratch on my rear bat, I suddenly tried the cut/polisher small area on my windows.
It gave amazing result on the marks, then I went crazy....

It was just 30 min job ( If you have good muscle and patience )

I'd been researching about this for several month(not everyday but), and the magic solved the problem.... how funny lol

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