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Fran Valdivia
DieHard
Wollongong NSW
Celsior

Posts: 904
Reg: 01-2007

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 12:28 pm, by:  Fran Valdivia (Silvasoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was wondering if anyone could help me with this.
I have an 89 Celsior, I believe it to be the CF pack.
The first issue is that the rear left seatbelt creeps and doesnot keep tension when the car is on, however when the car is off, it seems to be ok.
Second issue is when you pull any of the belts rapidly, they do not lock like an inertia belt should.
There is a couple of wires coming from them and they are plugged into the interior wiring harness, would this be the inertia lock, and if so how well does this work.
I'd hate to have a crash, and find out that the belts were there only to look pretty, and never worked.
Anyone have any thoughts, or ideas on this please.
Thanks in advance.
Fran
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1573
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, March 18, 2011 - 06:14 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably worth getting checked out Fran, try Seatbelt Solutions in Perth. Be warned though, you'll have to remove them and post, and then wait for the repaired ones. Talk to them first.
Andrew Ferres
Goo Roo
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '89 Crown Wagon V8, '84 Soarer V8

Posts: 1308
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 12:05 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they are factory (original) belts, then they aren't interia reels, only momentum reels (hence they don't lock when you yank then hard, but they will lock during an accident).

ALL Japanese OEM belts are like this, and they are ALL illegal in Australia.

My drivers one is still the original but the rest have been changed for brand new ADR approved ones (guys at the pits said the drivers one is to remain original). And funnily enough about a year ago it developed the same problem as yours, kept losing tension whilst being used. I unplugged that wire that goes into the clip/buckle arrangement, and the problem went away!

But I'd suggest spending the $600ish and buying all new ADR approved belts.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1574
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 01:48 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Andrew Ferres wrote on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 12:05 pm:

ALL Japanese OEM belts are like this, and they are ALL illegal in Australia.




If they're illegal, how did my OEM-equipped Personal Import get through the pit inspection?
Andrew Ferres
Goo Roo
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '89 Crown Wagon V8, '84 Soarer V8

Posts: 1309
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 04:24 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because not all inspectors either check it, or know about it. Its just pot luck.

The Celsior I bought was complied and registered in NSW with the original belts, and thus ended up costing me an extra $1000 when I came to get it registered in WA, as I needed to change the belts.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 6298
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 06:21 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I nearly failed a roadworthy once because the pit guys couldn't lock the reels by hand (momentum reels are legal in NZ) - had to take them for a drive and slam the brakes on to convince them they actually do work - then they let me through.
Fran Valdivia
DieHard
Wollongong NSW
Celsior

Posts: 905
Reg: 01-2007

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 07:24 pm, by:  Fran Valdivia (Silvasoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that everyone, hey Mike will give Perth a ring, maybe they can direct me to someone in Sydney that can check them out. And I guess that is a good way to check if they Matt, but I just cant fathom if it were to be tested in an accident and fail.....
Hey Andrew, my car came from Victoria, 5 years there, the NSW RTA said it is compulsory for an engineers report for it to be able to be registered here. Seems that Australian compliance doesn't mean squat when you bring import cars into our called NewSouthWales...
Anyway, this issue seems to not have been picked when it was complied in Victoria, and it wasn't picked up here by my rich new found friend, the motor engineer, so maybe sometimes those anal assholes that do these checks, sometimes are worth more than they deserve.....well maybe just alittle!
Andrew Ferres
Goo Roo
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '89 Crown Wagon V8, '84 Soarer V8

Posts: 1310
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 10:51 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want to get the belt to lock, hit the B-pillar while yanking the belt, and it should lock.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1575
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 12:09 am, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like you have some issues, Fran. Our car is a personal import, went over the pits in WA (no issues with belts) and when we moved to NSW, it had a Blue Slip done and then registered NSW. The reason I had driver's side belt rewebbed was simply that it was frayed and not retracting well. The whole thing was not without problems, though, and car ended up off the road without a belt for nearly 3 months.
Fran Valdivia
DieHard
Wollongong NSW
Celsior

Posts: 906
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, March 28, 2011 - 05:27 pm, by:  Fran Valdivia (Silvasoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Andrew Ferres wrote on Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 10:51 pm:

If you want to get the belt to lock, hit the B-pillar while yanking the belt, and it should lock.




Are you being serious?

I only want to ascertain that these belts will work when they are required to, its a terrible way to find out that after having to put them on or risk a fine, that after all this time being annoyed by the design, that when you really need them to work, that they do not.

Anyway, just waiting on a set of hopefully australian delivered belts, all good
Andrew Ferres
Goo Roo
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '89 Crown Wagon V8, '84 Soarer V8

Posts: 1311
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:40 pm, by:  Andrew Ferres (Peewee) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure if you are understanding the 2 different locking mechanism's of seat belts.

There is Inertia Reel, and Momentum Reel.

Inertia Reel locks up when the centrifugal force inside the belt reel reaches a certain amount (like a centrifugal clutch), hence they lock up when you yank them hard.

Momentum Reel locks up when the belt reel is not at rest and horizontal (notice how when cars are parked on an angle/hill the seat belts can be annoying?). Hitting the b-pillar while pulling the belt simulates the car braking suddenly, or being hit, etc, as the locking mechanism inside the reel is activated.

JDM belts are only Momentum.
ADR approved belts are Momentum and Inertia.

Both belts *should* lock up in the event of an accident, however the ADR ones have a back up of sorts (which also makes its extremely annoying when you go to lean forward to change the radio station and they lock up!).

That said, the original belts in the Celsior are now over 20 years old, so its probably a good idea to replace them as part of preventative maintenance.
Fran Valdivia
DieHard
Wollongong NSW
Celsior

Posts: 911
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, April 11, 2011 - 04:53 pm, by:  Fran Valdivia (Silvasoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mike Triggs wrote on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 12:09 am:

Sounds like you have some issues, Fran. Our car is a personal import, went over the pits in WA (no issues with belts) and when we moved to NSW, it had a Blue Slip done and then registered NSW. The reason I had driver's side belt rewebbed was simply that it was frayed and not retracting well. The whole thing was not without problems, though, and car ended up off the road without a belt for nearly 3 months.




What a pain!!!!!
When you re-registered your car in NSW, you only needed a Blue slip? That's great cos when I got mine transferred from Victorian rego the NSW RTA wanted to see an Engineers Report.....
Fran Valdivia
DieHard
Wollongong NSW
Celsior

Posts: 912
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, April 11, 2011 - 05:09 pm, by:  Fran Valdivia (Silvasoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Andrew Ferres wrote on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:40 pm:

I'm not sure if you are understanding the 2 different locking mechanism's of seat belts.

There is Inertia Reel, and Momentum Reel.

Inertia Reel locks up when the centrifugal force inside the belt reel reaches a certain amount (like a centrifugal clutch), hence they lock up when you yank them hard.

Momentum Reel locks up when the belt reel is not at rest and horizontal (notice how when cars are parked on an angle/hill the seat belts can be annoying?). Hitting the b-pillar while pulling the belt simulates the car braking suddenly, or being hit, etc, as the locking mechanism inside the reel is activated.

JDM belts are only Momentum.
ADR approved belts are Momentum and Inertia.

Both belts *should* lock up in the event of an accident, however the ADR ones have a back up of sorts (which also makes its extremely annoying when you go to lean forward to change the radio station and they lock up!).

That said, the original belts in the Celsior are now over 20 years old, so its probably a good idea to replace them as part of preventative maintenance.




Hi Andrew, no I didn't actually understand the concept, and thanks for explaining it out, I thought you were just fooling around when you said to hit the pillar while yanking on belt :-)
I like the fact that the belts don't lock when you move in them, and assumed that they would control a flying body in an accident. It only came to my attention that they never locked when the rear belt started to creep, and only when I was sitting in it as a passenger when my son was learning to drive.
As for the 20 years old, they are in excellent condition, not even fade marks on them, so its a pity to change them, especially since the colour will be mismatched :-(
oh well
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1583
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, April 11, 2011 - 06:04 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Fran Valdivia wrote on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 05:09 pm:

especially since the colour will be mismatched




Seatbelt Solutions have a wide range of colours, Fran, although I couldn't say whether they'd match what you have. I had only the driver's side belt done, and the match was good (ivory interior, so a beige/brown).
Fran Valdivia
DieHard
Wollongong NSW
Celsior

Posts: 913
Reg: 01-2007

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Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 10:04 am, by:  Fran Valdivia (Silvasoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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