Soarer Central: Archive through November 06, 2006

Soarer Central General Soarer Chat Getting the best fuel economy out of my TT Archive through November 06, 2006

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Joel Moore
Tinkerer
SA
TT

Posts: 18
Reg: 10-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 09:50 pm, by: Joel Moore (Ttsoai2ei2)

The overdrive switch in my TT is always on and the power button is set to normal. Is this the best way to get the most out of my fuel tank?

For everyone that doesnt know me i am a serial tightass when it comes to fuel and was driving an undisclosed FWD hatch for 12 months before the soarer.

Does anyone have any other tricks for lowering fuel consumption other than cutting off your right foot?

Will resetting the ECU and then driving like a grandma do me any favours?

Cheers

Ben Daniel
DieHard
WA
Twin Turbo

Posts: 640
Reg: 03-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 10:07 pm, by: Ben Daniel (Lexustt)

Sorry to say this dude but I know a lot of people will back me up on this, If fuel consumption is 1 of your main concerns then you shouldn't be driving a Soarer.... especially a TT.

Dave Hart
DieHard
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 910
Reg: 08-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 10:20 pm, by: Dave Hart (Davyboy)

Yes but we're all cost conscious to some degree.

Luke Nieuwhof
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 1632
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 10:23 pm, by: Luke Nieuwhof (Luke_nieuwhof)

Joel, just go easy on the right pedal. Stay off boost. Avoid short trips where you can. Same as any other car.

Thads Cooke
TryHard
Auckland
Twin Turbo Aristo jzs147

Posts: 132
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 10:39 pm, by: Thads Cooke (Thadz)

Make sure you're o2 sensor is in perfect working condition (or better yet replace it!) as this will allow the ecu to adjust and give best possible economy during "lean cruise".

I got a big improvement in economy (and performance!) when I swapped over to a manual trans

although this probably isn't really what you're asking

The biggest thing of course is to keep your hoof off the pedal!! Turbos are famous for using lots of fuel if you use the power often, and its hard to avoid when running around town with an auto.

Also make sure the moths in your wallet don't fly out and attack the servo attendant!

Really, if you're paranoid about fuel consumption then maybe a TT isn't the car for you, but thats not to say you shouldn't try to get the best economy possible, just don't let it ruin the enjoyment you get out of owning a nice performance car.

I once asked a customer who'd just brought a brand new VX SS ute "how much fuel does it use?" and he just glared at me like I was a nattering old woman and replied "It depends how often I drive it!"

Graham Dollisson
DieHard
QLD
GTTL Morris Marina P76

Posts: 955
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
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Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 11:51 pm, by: Graham Dollisson (Alloyvee)

Keep your air filter clean, don't run any oil higher than the recommended 10w-30, do the BFI mod, keep your plugs in good nick, as you say - ecu reset then drive like you normally would(granny style).

That's about it without spending money on mods such as exhaust, Safc to trim fuel.

Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 2150
Reg: 09-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 11:21 am, by: Callum Finch (Sigeneat)

Dont drive it to/from work =)

Antony Borlase
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31 (V8 Limited)

Posts: 198
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 12:54 pm, by: Antony Borlase (Borlase)

Umm...only drive it downhill??

Shaun Stephenson
TryHard
Vic
Jzz30 TT & ST162

Posts: 209
Reg: 04-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 01:12 pm, by: Shaun Stephenson (Neonasty)

Dont waste fuel warming up your car?

Turn the car off at the lights?

I believe these things are a false economy, sure you may get a higher Kms/Per tank but at what price? Rebuilding an engine is going to cost you more than using more fuel.

Dont use cheap ass fuel. When I put 95 octane in, I get worse economy than 98 octane. Another false economy.

Perhaps get another cheap ass car and use that for daily driving?

Dont get huge chrome plated fat wheels. Extra unsprung weight (bad for economy and performance)

Savo Reg
TryHard
ACT
Soarer 2.5L TT

Posts: 108
Reg: 07-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 01:14 pm, by: Savo Reg (Savo)

these are comments you allways getting when your trying to ask a decent question... why drive a tt.. dont worrie about them remarks... dude you might try apex afc and get a dyno done to lean out the mixes most tt run rich.

and as said put in a boost gauge and drive allways off boost when cruizin soon as you hit boost the computer will rich her up.

Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT)

Posts: 1089
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 03:07 pm, by: Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk)

Savo, he'd have to manualise the box in order to get a Power FC working in an auto Soarer. Just get an SAFC.

The SAFC should be able to do a little for the fuel economy since Soarers tend to run rich from factory.

Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 2152
Reg: 09-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 03:27 pm, by: Callum Finch (Sigeneat)

He didnt say PowerFC Vinh?

Thads Cooke
TryHard
Auckland
Twin Turbo Aristo jzs147

Posts: 133
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 04:10 pm, by: Thads Cooke (Thadz)

An safc is all very well, but it only works during open loop, ie: high load driving, which is exactly the kind of usage he should be avoiding if he wants max km/l!

If nothing else, make sure your tyre pressures are correct, the car is tuned properly (plugs, air filter, fuel filter etc) and verify that the o2 sensor is working properly!

The biggest factor is going to be how its driven - cold starts and short runs will hammer economy, as will boosting it all around town.

Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 829
Reg: 03-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 04:15 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Safc 2 does low and high load applications does it not?

Thads Cooke
TryHard
Auckland
Twin Turbo Aristo jzs147

Posts: 134
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 04:33 pm, by: Thads Cooke (Thadz)

it does, but during closed loop running, the ecu will simply learn around whatever adjustments you program into the safc!
So the best thing is to have a o2 sensor in good working cond and let the ecu do it thing during cruise. Lots of posts about this in the old ALSC archive.

Jeff Wilkins
TryHard
South Australia
JZZ30 GT-TL

Posts: 266
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 05:45 pm, by: Jeff Wilkins (Calin)

Anybody able to explain how the ecu learns 'around' the safc/2/neo.

If the safc is intercepting the signals and telling the ecu what it wishes to, how/why does the ecu think it needs to change anything?

What am I missing here?

(Im not doubting that it does learn around it, Ive seen many times in various places that it does. Just curious as to the mechanics behind such an endeavor).

Neil Griffiths
Trader
NSW
212Kw @ 8psi MANUAL Super Charged UZZ31 :-)

Posts: 2925
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 05:51 pm, by: Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc)

Put ya foot down and get there quicker !
Less time travelling to waste fuel

Joel Moore
Tinkerer
SA
TT

Posts: 19
Reg: 10-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 05:58 pm, by: Joel Moore (Ttsoai2ei2)

Haha i just want to trim back my fuel usage. To get the best bang for buck.
Dont hit the throttle much at all still really enjoying the driving experience. Such a beautiful car to drive.

Just wanted to know how to get the best economy out of it. Getting 600kms to a tank which is nothing to whinge about. Would like to see if i can get 700!
Adding octane booster to 98 help at all??

Does having the power on normal and overdrive on help or not??
Thanks for the comments keep them coming.

Ben Socratous
Goo Roo
SA
I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!

Posts: 1003
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 06:00 pm, by: Ben Socratous (Socrates)

All valid points. But as has been stated above, and many times before, if you are that worries about fuel consumption, you don't want a soarer!

Thads Cooke
TryHard
Auckland
Twin Turbo Aristo jzs147

Posts: 135
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 06:11 pm, by: Thads Cooke (Thadz)

During open loop (full load, cold start etc) the ecu just runs pre programmed timing and fuelling, and ignores the o2 sensor. You have to take what you get and like it!. This is where an interceptor can be used to tell the ecu that the operating conditions are different to what they are so the ecu uses a different part of its rigid fueling/timing map, ie: telling ecu that theres a lower MAP signal than what there is and leaning the mixture a little under full load.

During 'closed loop' (cruisey motorway driving etc), the ecu starts off running a set program as in open loop. It then looks at the o2 sensor input, knock values, rpm, coolant temp etc and constantly adjusts the fuelling etc to get what the ecu thinks is the best o2 readings for economy etc.
The clever part is that after running in closed loop for a while, the ecu will notice that it constantly needs to lean or richen the mixture slightly to get the right a/f ratios, so will "learn" this and adjust its base map to suit, so the adjustment doesn't keep starting from scratch each journey.
This is why tricking the ecu by adjusting the LOW LOAD, closed loop inputs with a SAFC doesn't really work for long, as the ecu will notice that the a/f ratios arn't what it wants to see and promptly trim the injector pulse etc to get what it wants.

This is why the car performs differently after an ecu reset - it goes back to its base map and relearns the optimal corrections all over again.

Im not sure exactly what the cutoff point between open/closed loop is on a 1jz-gte, but its likely to be open loop above say 4000rpm and 70% throttle, and potentially closed loop below that.
The 1/2jz ecus have more learning capability than some other ecus, which is why the safc has the low load adjustments there - they do work well for certain vehicles.

I hope that makes some sense!

Luke Nieuwhof
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 1635
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 07:32 pm, by: Luke Nieuwhof (Luke_nieuwhof)

Such clever cars...

Jose-Antonio Castillo
DieHard
NSW
Soarer VVTi

Posts: 974
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 07:54 pm, by: Jose-Antonio Castillo (Ahh_soarer)

Always thought these cars had minds of their own

Jeff Wilkins
TryHard
South Australia
JZZ30 GT-TL

Posts: 267
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 08:14 pm, by: Jeff Wilkins (Calin)

Thads Cooke wrote on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 06:11 pm:
The clever part is that after running in closed loop for a while, the ecu will notice that it constantly needs to lean or richen the mixture slightly to get the right a/f ratios, so will "learn" this and adjust its base map to suit, so the adjustment doesn't keep starting from scratch each journey.

Ok, so the ecu 'gets used' to doing what its being 'tricked' into doing and adjusts its base map to suit. Cool.

Im probably dense but I fail to see how this will cause the mixtures to go rich again, I mean its acting on signals its receiving. It doesnt know these signals are bogus so how/why the hell does it then enrich the mixture to something that would be deemed a poor a/f ratio?

Am I missing something bloody obvious here?

Luke Nieuwhof
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 1639
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 08:32 pm, by: Luke Nieuwhof (Luke_nieuwhof)

It's not a poor a/f ratio for a factory car though Jeff. They will take safe and less maintenance over performance anytime. Of course if you want to go faster then a leaner a/f rato helps.

Peter Ha
DieHard
NSW
Jzz30

Posts: 708
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 06, 2006 - 08:40 pm, by: Peter Ha (Soaranova)

just have a big wallet so you don't have to worry about fuel consumption..haha

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