| Author |
Message |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 400
Reg: 08-2005
|
As some of you will know I bought a supercharged UZZ31 from NSW last year. Well it's still not licensed and now looks like it can't be (at least not with the charger attached) for at least another two months...
I've been back and forth with the guys at Welshpool technical section and basically it boils down to this: If I could have produced some NSW doco showing the charger passing emissions testing over there then the car would have been passed as they have to honour another states prior testing.
However the previous owner could not produce this documentation for me.
I then went to one of WA licensing approved engineers to have the charger checked and certified along with a 4gas emissions test which is done by importers for the Jap cars that importers bring in.
This was submitted to the tech section but they came back to me saying that the emissions test is not valid as that particular test is only for stock vehicles and instead a "IM 240" emissions test needs to be conducted. I was p1ssed off that the engineer didn't know this as he charged me for his time not to mention my time/money back and forth with permits etc...
In typical WA bureaucracy style the IM240 test that is required is not actually available in WA yet!! His suggestion is that people who have required it have taken their car over east to do it!! That's great to know AFTER I've just shipped the thing across to here.
The test apparently will be available but not for another 2 or so months at an estimated cost of $500-$600. Of course there is no guarantee that you will pass which would require possible further modification and then retesting.
I asked him about some of the other engineers that I had queried who had said that they can already organise a test but the cost was around $2000+. He said that this was a full ADR test that could be used but obviously the cost is so much higher than a standard IM240 test....
So basically I'm buggered either way...Looks like I'll have to take off the charger to get it passed or lock it up for a couple more months...What a load of crapola...  |
Luke Nieuwhof
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT
Posts: 1805
Reg: 07-2005
|
Gregg Holden wrote on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 12:26 pm:In typical WA bureaucracy style the IM240 test that is required is not actually available in WA yet
You don't expect DPI to be anything less do you? |
Phil Gibson
DieHard
WA
'94 black/black UZZ31
Posts: 876
Reg: 07-2005
|
Well that sucks.
I assume this is partly because of the changeover to the national laws.
If it's not then questions need to be asked as to how other cars with turbo/supercharger kits are driving around (assuming they have got them engineered)
With Motorvation coming up no doubt there will be such vehicles there and it would be interesting to chat to the owners to see how they did it, i find it very hard to believe that it is not legally possible to have an aftermarket FI vehicle registered... |
Aaron Klaver
Trader
Victoria
TT and T
Posts: 1110
Reg: 08-2005
|
Take charger off, get car rego'd, put charger back on
Smile
Getting the same kind of thing done here in vic would cost you around $4k in testing at the Ford emissions lab. |
Anthony Matthews
Tinkerer
Western Australia
Soarer GT Limited V8
Posts: 61
Reg: 04-2006
|
DPI are too busy issuing double invoices for car registrations to actually allow NEW registrations. It's generally the case that DPI have weird policies (like you can pay renewals online with a credit card, but at licensing centres it's only Cash or debit card.) They really couldn't find their own a$$ with a compass, flashlight, GPS device, map book... |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 401
Reg: 08-2005
|
Anthony Matthews wrote on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 02:45 pm:They really couldn't find their own a$$ with a compass, flashlight, GPS device, map book...
Amen to that... |
Paul Brockbank
Goo Roo
WA
GT35R Single T
Posts: 1099
Reg: 07-2005
|
Permits for the win...
I know of 2 people who have been driving daily on permits for about 3-4 months, simply because it takes so damn long to get anything done in this backward city.
If you need a good excuse, you're "running the motor in" and you need to get lots of K's on it before it can be properly tuned and ready for emission testing.... |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 402
Reg: 08-2005
|
Paul that's an expensive and time consuming business...
The permits last for 48hours only. You have to specify exactly the places you are going and go through all the crap giving them the vin etc... Not to mention $15 a pop....
"WA - The backwards state" |
Gary Nimmo
TryHard
WA
V8 Supercharged & aftercooled
Posts: 193
Reg: 07-2005
|
Im Lucky Gregg
Mine is still registered eh
I dont think you have any insurance though if your not complied
all though I would have to confirm that with Shanons
I was told I had to take my car to Orbital Engines for my emissions test
& Iwas also given a list of engineers that I could take my car too
I still have all the info somewere
Ill look it up for you if you like
Have you got it running properly yet ? |
Tim Appleton
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31
Posts: 493
Reg: 07-2005
|
I was going to suggest Orbital. Although, by the sounds of it, there is probably a shirtload of red tape just for them to get the IM240 certificates to hand out. |
Neil Griffiths
Trader
NSW
212Kw @ 8psi MANUAL Super Charged UZZ31 
Posts: 3334
Reg: 07-2005
|
Gregg,
If the Blower is installed and Factory ECU maintained, Emmissions won't change.
ECU Change, Emmissions change.
Piggybacks, Emmisions change.
No Engineer in NSW will Engineer a car with an After Market ECU. ( So everybody runs around with no Cert on the ECU side of things )
I don't think QLD will either.
I'd Remove Blower ( Easy job ) Rego..drive around until IM240 is available..Then it will be an easier task to complete.
I have a factory manifold setup you can use in the meantime mate. |
Richard Baird
TryHard
Perth, WA
rubber band
Posts: 244
Reg: 07-2005
|
Gregg if you could of produced documentation of a "similar" blown setup on a Soarer, your engine control ECU is left unchanged, and convinced an engineer that the docs were of similar ilk that would of passed. I believe you may of got this info at the time you presented to Welshpool.
Orbital do IM240 emissions testing now but unless you have a gold AMEX forget it.
Now that the Tech section is familiar with your motor, maybe return it to stock and license... |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 2375
Reg: 09-2005
|
That sucks Gregg!
...i wish i had something else to say! =P |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 403
Reg: 08-2005
|
Richard - Yes I know this but of course it isn't really "legit". I made some enquiries without success but really when I thought about it I thought I'd do the "right" thing and get it done properly. Of course I wasn't to know that they had introduced laws that require a test that isn't available. But that's WA Pollies for you. Zero clue..
Your brother did my first pass and was very helpful but the final decision was out of his hands. Shame...
Neil - Thanks for the offer mate... The problem isn't so much being without a car as I have my TT so I guess I'll just have to wait it out. In the meantime I can sort out some other minor things that I want to do to it (carpet, run cabling etc) so I'll just concentrate on that stuff for the moment.
Gary - Check your insurance mate. I would be surprised if you would be covered for a non-permited modification in an accident situation. Insurance policies are usually black and white about such things in their favour.
Gary/Tim - I was given Orbital to ring..Went through their IVR switch, got someone on reception and got put through to an answering machine...
Kostecki are the other local workshop that are going to do the test but they are the ones that are 2 months away from being ready.
Callum - Yes it does!! |
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ no •••• "
JZZ30
Posts: 1640
Reg: 07-2005
|
I believe a IUZFE with basic blower setup will pass any of these tests as long as you're running low boost and the AFR stays on the rich side under full throttle. If it runs a little lean you're more likely to fail, they're uptight about N0x emissions. Since the IM240 is just a light load 4 minute dyno test; revs wont climb too high.
If the timing advance is right and your ignition system is in top condition, HC emissions will be fine, all you need to do is balance the AFR so CO and NOx levels don't exceed spec. CO2 output can be avoided by not letting it run too rich, but this is the easiest spec to pass. Because they're doing mostly light throttle, you'll be running stoich pretty much the whole time so make sure the oxygen sensor is clean and operating as it should.
Can't see why you won't pass.
Probably worth waiting a few months! |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 405
Reg: 08-2005
|
Thanks Cihan - that's extremely useful information to know and good for tuning prep work before doing the test... thanks. |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 406
Reg: 08-2005
|
From Orbital:
--------------------------
Dear Sir
Unfortunately we do not offer the IM-240 test commercially. The best we can do is to offer an ADR compliance test to the relevant standard based on year of manufacture of the vehicle. Approx. $2800 +GST for an
ADR-37/01 tailpipe test.
Chris Beatty
Vehicle Test Supervisor
Orbital Corporation. |
Gary Nimmo
TryHard
WA
V8 Supercharged & aftercooled
Posts: 196
Reg: 07-2005
|
So whats the next step now Gregg
Track the Man down buy him some beers
& try for mates rates
Or just do the waiting thing eh |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 2406
Reg: 09-2005
|
2months is nothing in the long run. |
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T
Posts: 2183
Reg: 07-2005
|
Yeah I'd wait the two months. I already waited that long for mine to be back on the road, but at least you got the second soarer to drive in the meantime Gregg. |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer GT-TL & Supercharged 31
Posts: 407
Reg: 08-2005
|
Actually I've decided to stock it back....
There is no assurance that the test will actually be ready in 6 to 8 weeks. The same guys had told the engineer that it was going to be ready before christmas - which it wasn't...
Then you have the issues of going through the testing process possibly a couple of times depending upon the exact requirements. To be honest I don't have the time to be running back and forward all the time. Ultimately this could prove a lot more expensive. I'll leave it until the test is established and well known in terms of requirements and pass rates. I have no desire to be a guinea pig with this process...
I also have a number of changes I want to do and getting permits to move it around is getting old already...
I'm still getting advice from people that a supercharger without management has the same emissions and doesn't need further emissions testing...but then the tech guys say otherwise. They also thought the four gas test I had done by an ISO approved testing centre had invalid readings - which it didn't (according to the testers). 
Letters could be written etc etc. But I can't be assed dealing with the local government's incompetence, bureaucracy and red tape. 
So I've sorted out a "Stock manifold pack" from Neil and will simply fit that to get it passed.
I'm over it already...
 |
Tim Appleton
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31
Posts: 501
Reg: 07-2005
|
That's sad to hear.
It seems that the government only wants us to drive cars that are "as manufactured" these days. |
Neil Griffiths
Trader
NSW
212Kw @ 8psi MANUAL Super Charged UZZ31
Posts: 3365
Reg: 07-2005
|
Gregg,
In the meantime mate, ask them if you bought a Supercharger * kit * that was developed in another state and had an emmissions report with it ( as fitted to same vehicle ) will they accept that report for you to be entitled to install said * kit * to same vehicle. |
Richard Baird
TryHard
Perth, WA
rubber band
Posts: 246
Reg: 07-2005
|
Yup that will suffice Neil.... |
Blaine Hanson
TryHard
WA
1993 GT, 1997 LTD
Posts: 486
Reg: 08-2005
|
Gregg Holden wrote on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 12:14 am:Unfortunately we do not offer the IM-240 test commercially. The best we can do is to offer an ADR compliance test to the relevant standard based on year of manufacture of the vehicle. Approx. $2800 +GST for an
ADR-37/01 tailpipe test.
That is what has been holding me back ...... absolutely crazy. |
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8
Posts: 711
Reg: 07-2005
|
Has anyone in WA done an IM240 test?
I'll be up for one in probably mid Feb/march at a guess.
What did you end up doing Gregg? |
Gary Nimmo
TryHard
WA
V8 Supercharged & intercooled
Posts: 280
Reg: 07-2005
|
I think we are all still waiting Andrew |
Brett Moloney
DieHard
Queensland
Supercharged UZZ31
Posts: 610
Reg: 07-2005
|
Why not just move to Queensland - YeeHaa!!! |
Tim Appleton
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31
Posts: 658
Reg: 07-2005
|
Gregg Holden wrote on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 12:14 am:Unfortunately we do not offer the IM-240 test commercially. The best we can do is to offer an ADR compliance test to the relevant standard based on year of manufacture of the vehicle. Approx. $2800 +GST for an
ADR-37/01 tailpipe test.
Hmm, for another project I would require emissions testing to meet ADRs, and the best I've heard is on the rough side of $10k!!! Why don't we swap states for a while. You probably don't realise that's a cheap price for what they're offering.
I understand that S.A. might have an IM240 testing facility soon, not too much closer but still closer than going to Sydney.  I hear they may be having the same "2 month" delay as you guys though. |
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8
Posts: 712
Reg: 07-2005
|
SA already does and has had for quite a while now. About $700 from what I'm told.
NSW has emissions testing (not sure if its IM240 or just general emissions), and testing is FREE!!
VIC is about $2000-$3000.
WA's still isn't ready, but I'm told they are currently accepting a "4 GAS TEST" in place of the IM240 test, which takes about 10 mins and costs SFA. |
Jarrad Zen
Tinkerer
NSW
TT
Posts: 35
Reg: 03-2007
|
Sorry to jump in at the end of all this but am I likely to have the same dramas if I take my TT to WA from NSW??
It is still completely stock at the moment but it is sounding like I should make the most of this free emissions testing in NSW? |
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8
Posts: 713
Reg: 07-2005
|
If its a stock car with nothing more than an exhaust/intercooler upgrade, then you won't need emissions test.
If you've changed turbo's or engine, or the inspector can see/tell that something has seriously been modified, then you will probably have to do one. |
Kyle Wathen
TryHard
Vic
GTTL
Posts: 303
Reg: 02-2007
|
Jarrad Zen wrote on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:52 am:Sorry to jump in at the end of all this but am I likely to have the same dramas if I take my TT to WA from NSW??
It is still completely stock at the moment but it is sounding like I should make the most of this free emissions testing in NSW?
Usually one state authority will not accept another state traffic authorities engineering/emissions certificate. At least I know Vicroad’s wont anyway. |
Tim Appleton
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31
Posts: 659
Reg: 07-2005
|
They should accept the emissions certificates because they are all tested to a standard that is independent of the state's legislation. The engineering certificates are a different story and will not be accepted because different states have different rules as to what requires an engineers certificate. |
Blaine Hanson
DieHard
WA
1992 GT, 1997 LTD
Posts: 587
Reg: 08-2005
|
Andrew Ferres wrote on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 09:13 am:I'm told they are currently accepting a "4 GAS TEST" in place of the IM240 test, which takes about 10 mins and costs SFA.
I'm all for that. Do you know where I can get one done Andrew and I give it a go. |
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8
Posts: 714
Reg: 07-2005
|
My engineer told me about it, and that they are currently accepting it (nb, this was about 4 weeks ago).
I'd try calling the DPI first, and ask them about it. I'd probably call Kostecki first and see if the IM240 test is ready, and if not how long its going to be until its ready, because you can bet money that the DPI will tell you that the IM240 test will be ready in a few weeks and that they'd like you to wait for that. But if you've spoken to Kostecki first, and they says its still ages away, its a bit of ammunition.
If the DPI doesn't say anything about the 4 Gas test, then my engineers name is Jack Apgar, his number can be found on the DPI website. |
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer UZZ31 Supercharged
Posts: 827
Reg: 08-2005
|
Andrew,
That's very bizaar.... Jack is the guy who did my initial engineering test. He also believed that the 4 gas test would be ok back in Jan 07. However that wasn't the case. The pits advised that the IM240 test was required back then and it was going to get a whole lot harder not easier to get mods post June so I can't see them accepting 4 gas certs now. Great if they are but I think Jack still hasn't caught up with the latest requirements...
Also Kostecki have been saying it's a couple of months away since Jan (In fact I think before christmas 06).... Everytime I email them its the same story.... |
Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8
Posts: 715
Reg: 07-2005
|
Interesting news, but honestly not surprising to tell you the truth.
In Jacks words (give or take) they require an IM240 test, but as no one in the state can offer this test (or offer it at a reasonable price) they are currently accepting a 4 gas test.
Hopefully something concrete will be in place by the time I need to get it done.
I'd hate to have the car 99% legal except waiting on buearocratic red tape on emissions testing... |
Blaine Hanson
DieHard
WA
1992 GT, 1997 LTD
Posts: 588
Reg: 08-2005
|
Andrew Ferres wrote on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 02:32 pm:I'd hate to have the car 99% legal except waiting on buearocratic red tape on emissions testing...
Like the rest of us - come join the club! |
Gary Nimmo
TryHard
WA
V8 Supercharged & intercooled
Posts: 282
Reg: 07-2005
|
There isn't many off us
Did you get your's burning Rubber properly? |
Previous
