Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:50 am, by: Hugh Jorgan(Soulfire)
Nayr... how does it look anything like a GTS? - trust me, in the metal, this thing looks like plasticky, the exhausts look stupid, the whole car is just lame really - the TMR supercharged 380 looks much tougher. Cihan, it's definitely FWD - said so at the motorshow. The problems with the BA driveline were only a serious problem in the serious 1s, where the diffs used to die - and the 5 speed manual and 4 speed auto struggled to handle modifications.
The only restriction of a 6 speed auto or manual xr6t is the valve springs, which fail as you approach 250rwkw. I wish my soarer had 232rwkw with a different airbox and a reflash of the factory ecu... - it's been done several times with an xr6t - god most of you people are so blinded by a Toyota badge it's disgraceful, for sake, you drive imports, our cars have next to nothing to do with a locally built and sold toyota - they make boring cars that don't break down - and if your happy with no real power or torque then that's awesome, but I'd drive a Falcon before I drove a Camry, or a tarted up Camry as the case may be.
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:53 am, by: Hugh Jorgan(Soulfire)
Callum Finch wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 07:49 am:
Pfft. The only good (Affordable) Ford ever built had a pony badge on it's front.
Since when the hell was a Mustang affordable in Australia? And even then you have no clue :p, have you ever driven one? Don't get me wrong, awesome looking cars, sound awesome, some are very quick in a straight line (A 2000 Cobra R is my dream car), but the build quality of American Fords is a joke. The Mustang didn't sell at all here, because for the price, the quality was lacking, parts of the dash don't fit together properly, the engine and ride are unrefined (on the older models) and the new ones still have a live rear axle...
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 09:48 am, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Hugh Jorgan wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:50 am:
but I'd drive a Falcon before I drove a Camry
You are kidding, like most people bag camry's wtih comments they are slow or FWD. Then you line up against them and blow them away.
I cant remember how many times I have blown people away in the falcons and commodores that think they will kill a camry. (On private roads and race tracks)
I would still beat my brother when he had 2k of mods to his 97 VS. I was unable to keep up through the hills after he spent another 4k on suspension but before the very serious suspension mods I would loose sight of him after 3 or 4 corners.
What does that say for the RWD vs FWD, RWD has more power at the engine yet it is slower in a straight line and cant keep up around corners.
Yep the XR6T is impressive but given it is nearly twice the displacement of a 1J and it is 15 years newer I would expect that it should be 3 times more powerful and just as reliable.
If you look at the SV6 engine design it is very similar and uses the same technology used in the 3.0lt V6 camry motor that came out in 93 in Australia. The holden motor came out 11 years later and it was on par with it, the new toyota motors have none gorn a step ahead and make the holden a redundant (claimed 25% more fuel efficient with 17% more power for the same displacement).
Adam Peterson DieHard Western Australia Bugatti Veyron
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:29 am, by: Adam Peterson(President)
Damian Ware wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 09:48 am:
What does that say for the RWD vs FWD, RWD has more power at the engine yet it is slower in a straight line and cant keep up around corners.
That is totally false and a silly assumption.
There are many other deciding factors concerning what drivetrain is better for each application.
I have seen a Honda Civic cream the pants off a R32 GTR, Subaru Legacy, Mazda RX7, Falcon XR8 on the track. Note too that 2 Nissans and the RX7 were 500+ HP @ wheels vs Civic with 160HP @ wheels.
Each car has its own unique setup / tyres / power and grip. Yet at the end of the day its the driver who determines how to best use these factors to achieve optimum results.
Roger Costello TryHard WA UZZ31 V8 Limited, UZZ32 no 867
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:49 am, by: Roger Costello(Roger)
I might be dumb but how does this relate to Soarers? I thought this thread was about the potential improved availability of TRD bits. If we are going to have a car vs car religious flame war can we keep it to TT vs V8's or move it to the off topic chat area. It's getting as pointless as the recent homophobe vs metro-sexual crusade. No one can "win" this debate so why waste time and bandwidth trying.
Adam Peterson DieHard Western Australia Bugatti Veyron
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 12:44 pm, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Adam Peterson wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:29 am:
That is totally false and a silly assumption.
Horseshit, this was two stock cars up against each other both with similar quality tyres (at one stage we both had the same identical tyres)and both where tested against each other time and time again.
This is probably one of the best tests you will ever get to have a FWD vs RWD other than engineering the same car to be set up as both as optimally as possible.
Both cars are of very similar weight with a near identical straight line speed (after the mods to the VS).
Both cars have been driven by both drivers repeatedly result always the same.
If you cant make a comparison from those results then I don't think one will ever be possible and we will all have to simply go on the response of completely uninformed opinions that FWD are with zero evidence to back up the claims.
I know which car I would be driving, even though it was FWD it was much cheaper to run, due to being 10 times more reliable more fuel efficient and simply heaps nicer to drive and ride in.
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 03:19 pm, by: Adam Peterson(President)
Damian i see your point but there is a lot more to cars even if they're stock. Such things as gear ratios and how they affect how much a car over/understeers entering and exiting a corner vs straight line speed. LSD in the front vs LSD in the rear and how with and without affects grip. Tyre choice and the physics involved in straight line vs cornering. Suspension setup and rebound rates. Wheel camber. Weight distribution
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 03:34 pm, by: Phil Gibson(Sciflyer)
Hugh Jorgan wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:50 am:
The problems with the BA driveline were only a serious problem in the serious 1s, where the diffs used to die - and the 5 speed manual and 4 speed auto struggled to handle modifications.
You conveniently forget the factory clutches that shat themselves after a couple of months BUILT FORD TOUGH
Morgan my post about the weight difference between cars highlighted the fact that its pointless to crow about the power advantage of the Falcon when its even more of a barge than most V8 Soarers...
Roger Costello TryHard WA UZZ31 V8 Limited, UZZ32 no 867
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 03:48 pm, by: Roger Costello(Roger)
Alright,
I confess, I have owned front wheel drives, rear wheel drives and all wheel drives. Turbo and NA, Fords and Toyota's. On the road as opposed to the track my preference is for all wheel drive. Failing that, below 150KW front wheel drive and above 200KW rear wheel drive would be my personal choice. If It has more than 350KW I'd really want it to be all wheel drive.
As to Toyota vs Ford the majority of this forum seems to be about Toyota's but I have heard very nice things about Ford XR6 Turbo's. I would still rather own a Soarer Active.
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 03:58 pm, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Adam yes I understand that and I am well aware of issues that can affect handling.
The only other comparison I can think of is the 2.0lt racing class. Not sure what it was called exactly but it has BMW 318, Vectra, Audio A4 ect.
They were all matched power to weight and naturally teams tried to set up there cars to be as fast as possible, there was AWD RWD and FWD. In the few wet race meets the AWD was far superior other wises it came down to each individual track/car set ups.
There was no clear winner, and I was not aware of rueling that was restricting either drive line configuration to prevent it from dominating.
FWD enters corners faster and held good corner speed, RWD excited faster but was slow on entry and mid corner was lacking.
AWD combination of the above but faster through the corners, downside due to the additional weight and power loss of the drive line they didnt' have the same straight line speed.
I think this proves that FWD is not .
Although I won 9 track trophies with racing experience at Barbagallo Raceway and at AHG with a Race modified Civic I still no nothing.
I never said you know nothing, and given your experience I find it strange why you made this comment "That is totally false and a silly assumption." I simply responded to it, although I did possible over react my apologies. I am just sick of hearing uneducated opinions about FWD's that totally have zero bases.
For reference my comments where not made lightly there was a lot of testing behind them. I have also spent a lot of time racing RC cars. I have spent countless hrs testing and tuning chassis and although we are talking about real cars the principles and physics are they same.
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:07 pm, by: Aaron Mead(Aaron)
Hugh Jorgan wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:50 am:
but I'd drive a Falcon before I drove a Camry
That is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard today. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I just traded my SH|TBOX BA Sedan (Power steering leak, leaking diff, clunking auto, back doors not locking, coolant leak, caliper siezed, rotors warped.....serviced at ford too) for a brand new camry. Only $100 per service for first 100,000km. Less than 10l/100 compared to the 13-14 in the falcon (I dont care what ford claim, they are full of leftover ford spares, or 'sh|t' as its more commonly known)
Friday, March 16, 2007 - 06:48 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
I would never argue that RWD is "better" than FWD for handling and performance, but it sure as hell feels a lot nicer (to me) to drive. Suits my driving style I guess, but maybe thats because I learned to drive in a RWD, and didn't own a FWD until my early 20's. I'd probably never choose to own another FWD unless I had no other option, I just don't like them.
Friday, March 16, 2007 - 07:44 am, by: Luke Nieuwhof(Luke_nieuwhof)
Is it true red cars go faster? I think if the Camry is red it will be faster than a Falcon, unless that's also red. In which case the universe collapses.
Adam Peterson DieHard Western Australia Bugatti Veyron
Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:17 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
Luke Nieuwhof wrote on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 07:44 am:
In which case the universe collapses
But if the Ford is blue, and the Toyota the two opposites will attract each other, the collision resulting in an explosion of a force approaching the sum of their mass times the speed of light squared, or big enough to destroy the planet - or a few scratches and a broken headlight, depending on how fast they hit each other...