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Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 267
Reg: 09-2005

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 12:36 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm starting to think my Soarer has a "use by date" and I am getting close to that day. We don't drive it much and for the last 10 years we have only clocked up 40,000 kms but in the last few months I have had to repair or replace the engine ECU, blinky dash, EMV and brake accumulator. Not sure what is going to fail next.
David Tra
DieHard
qld
TT

Posts: 906
Reg: 11-2007

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 01:32 pm, by:  David Tra (Bookie) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your suspension will be the next thing to fail
Ian Johnston
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ30 GT 4.0, UZZ31

Posts: 887
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 04:23 pm, by:  Ian Johnston (Ted) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, get rid of it.

Then go buy a late model Commodore/Falcon, and spend half its life behind a tow truck with fuel pump problems, transmission issues, every other problem that you wont be able to fix yourself.

My daughter has a 2004 VZ Commy, and it has been a heap since she bought it.
She now thinks it would be better to buy a $6,000 Soarer, and mod it to suit her style, and still have money left over.
Stuff me, the Commy doesnt even have variable wipers. And its an SV6.

A mate of mine has 2 late model Mercedes, and he is amaized at the Soarer for the money I paid for them.

No, I would definately get rid of your Soarer.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western Australia
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1380
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 05:58 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary, any car 10+ years old is going to have age-related issues. As with the other comments on this threads, what car could you buy at Soarer prices that comes close in looks and reliability? I haven't found Soarer parts prices to be outrageous, and our two have needed very few anyway. With nearly 180k up on our '97 I have few outstanding issues (I realise that your UZZ31 has air suspension which ours lacks) with it and couldn't begin to think what I'd replace it with that had a fraction of the Soarer's looks and appeal (not to mention seat comfort for a 190cm driver).
Ian Johnston
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ30 GT 4.0, UZZ31

Posts: 889
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 06:09 pm, by:  Ian Johnston (Ted) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats the reason I just bought my 2nd Soarer.
For the money, I couldnt find anything with the luxury, and comfort that the Soarer has for the money they are going for.
And I like the looks as well. I am prepared to do maintenance instead of buying a Hyundai or similar for twice the money.
Joel King
TryHard
New South Wales
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 137
Reg: 11-2007

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 07:00 pm, by:  Joel King (Twinturbos_rock_my_chasis) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had suspected turbo failure, paid 3k to get them fixed only to find the "big end" failed not the turbos, got a new engine and clutch (as it was oil/heat damaged) then found metal shards (probably from the big end) in the turbos so back to be rebuilt, blinky dash and the suspension is shagged. I had the thing for 14 months and it was only on the road for 3 of those months.

All that being said I still get in the car hit the road and the smile it puts on my face is priceless.....

Ian, no offence mate but sounds like your daughter got a lemon....

honestly though even with the SV6, your comparing a cheap family sedan to a 2 door sports coupe.... Apples and oranges really....
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4490
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 07:04 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of the failures Gary lists are age-related rather than owing to wear. The answer is therefore simple: drive it more! Not driving it is not preserving it in the slightest.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4481
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:17 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How would a big end shell wind up in the turbos?
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
GT Starlet

Posts: 2941
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 10:17 am, by:  James Harris (Haro) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:17 am:

How would a big end shell wind up in the turbos?




^^ yeh what he said!
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 4490
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 04:49 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If there is a LOT of oil blowback? =P
Joel King
TryHard
New South Wales
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 139
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:53 pm, by:  Joel King (Twinturbos_rock_my_chasis) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


James Harris wrote on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 10:17 am:

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:17 am:

How would a big end shell wind up in the turbos?



^^ yeh what he said!




My mechanic didn't think it was that bad (big end) as it was only "knocking" when cold or under pressure and suggested driving it to the workshop, got about 2km away from home and sounded like a 3 engine coal train.... ended up getting it towed.

Anyway, new engine in and flushed any pipes that were reused. but a small shard must have still been in the lines somewhere (not a clue where as we flushed all the lines....) or snuck through to the turbos and after just getting the car back got about 10kms up the road and got that lovely turbo"screech", sure enough returned it to the people that rebuilt it and they found some small metal shards (so no warranty for me)....

We haven't pulled down the engine as yet but my mechanic was 99.99% sure it was the big end.....

Thankfully they (GCG) didn't charge me the full rate (probably about a quarter of it otherwise the soarer would have been taking a trip to the wreckers..).

Ehem, sorry kinda hijacked your thread Gary....
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4485
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 10:53 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More likely piston ring or valve system bits - the big end shells are in the bottom of the motor, and I can't really concieve of any way other than a total piston disintegration that there would be any chance of a big end making its way from the bottom of the con rod up into the exhaust system. Maybe you should question your mechanic as to where he did his appretiship?
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
540i E34 V8

Posts: 3581
Reg: 11-2005

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Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 03:37 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know what your moaning about....

Its a car!

It requires maintenance, especially now.

Just because you fix one thing, it doesn’t mean its all fixed. There’s thousands of parts through out the car that can fail.

These cars are all approaching 20 years old, they have had a good decade or so, problem free but now that they are cheap, have lots of miles and old, we can get our hands on them for very little money. But to make up for this they require plenty of spending on them if your wanting to keep them going and operating like new.

I've been going through dozens of parts on my BMW for example, replacing them and fixing them as they have been on the car for 16 years and pounded over 260,000k's. My car is a bit clunky in the rear so I'm doing the rear sub frame & rear diff mounts at the moment.

It's all part of the fun in owning an old car!

If you want a problem free cheap car, get a 5 year old Honda Eco-box or something along those lines.


:-)
Joel King
TryHard
New South Wales
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 140
Reg: 11-2007

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Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 06:32 pm, by:  Joel King (Twinturbos_rock_my_chasis) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 10:53 am:

More likely piston ring or valve system bits - the big end shells are in the bottom of the motor, and I can't really concieve of any way other than a total piston disintegration that there would be any chance of a big end making its way from the bottom of the con rod up into the exhaust system. Maybe you should question your mechanic as to where he did his appretiship?




25 years of working on cars and trucks and owning and running his own business.... perhaps before insulting someone you should firstly learn to spell "appretiship" secondly these are my assumptions, if you read my post I never said "mechanic said there was like a giant chunk of hectic big end in my fully sick turbo uleh".

To be honest if the big end died more than likely something else failed.... I know two facts, engine failed (99% sure big end failed, as stated, haven't pulled down the engine as yet) turbo had metal shards in it, one would assume the two are related but hey, obviously not possible...

Thanks for the information about the plausibility of the above, but please don't assume and then proceed to insult someone based on these assumptions.
Ian Johnston
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ30 GT 4.0, UZZ31

Posts: 893
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 08:10 pm, by:  Ian Johnston (Ted) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joel, what part of the turbo had metal shards in it??
If a bigend has failed, the metal bits will find there way thru the oil system, and could damage the turbo bearings.
When a bottom end failure happens, you need to get a new oil cooler, and make sure the oil galleries are cleaned out real good.
It is near impossible to clean out an oil cooler core.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4489
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, July 17, 2009 - 06:27 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Woah Joel, back off on the Keyboard Warrior roid rage there mate. Just stating an opinion on what I'd be thinking if my mechanic told me something like that. Not like you have to pass it on to him if you dont want to.
Adam Chytra
TryHard
NSW
Turbo, manual V8

Posts: 172
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, July 17, 2009 - 10:20 am, by:  Adam Chytra (Soarpra) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Joel King wrote on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 06:32 pm:

"mechanic said there was like a giant chunk of hectic big end in my fully sick turbo uleh".




HAHAHAHA!

Mustangs, Toranas and GT Falcons all had used by dates too. When they pass that, rebuild them and more often than not you come up with something better than the original. I can't remember the last time I saw a dunger torrie driving around, they're mostly re-born

I'd love to see a soarer with a full bare metal respray, smoothed engine bay, detailed undercarriage, interior re-done etc.

I think they're awesome cars and to keep running with so many electrical features and with as few issues as they have is amazing. I mean, what other cars from the early 90's are still rolling around and looking as good doing it? e36 BMW's look way more dated, 90's mercs? - please, an EA falcon? MX5's look really old. Soarers, along with supra's, '32 GTR's and rx7's are the only decent cars to come from the 90's

Parts are pretty cheap , there's heaps of support and information available. A bit of maintenance is a small price to pay for so much car. Whether or not you can be bothered doing it depends on how much you love the car. I'll never sell mine!
Joel King
TryHard
New South Wales
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 141
Reg: 11-2007

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Friday, July 17, 2009 - 08:07 pm, by:  Joel King (Twinturbos_rock_my_chasis) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ian Johnston wrote on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 08:10 pm:

Joel, what part of the turbo had metal shards in it??
If a bigend has failed, the metal bits will find there way thru the oil system, and could damage the turbo bearings.
When a bottom end failure happens, you need to get a new oil cooler, and make sure the oil galleries are cleaned out real good.
It is near impossible to clean out an oil cooler core.




I will be 100% honest, i don't know, definitely wasn't in the areas that could be seen without pulling the thing apart...


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 06:27 am:

Woah Joel, back off on the Keyboard Warrior roid rage there mate. Just stating an opinion on what I'd be thinking if my mechanic told me something like that. Not like you have to pass it on to him if you dont want to.




Matt I appreciate your knowledge (judging by your "Goo Roo" status you have a plethora of knowledge on soarers and most likely cars in general). But perhaps skip the assumptions, just never know if you are insulting someone with said assumptions or in this case making the incorrect assumptions (as I wasn't even repeating what my mechanic said, rather my own theories).....
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4491
Reg: 10-2005

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Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 10:51 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hah, Goo Roo status just means I've been here too long and posted too many assumptions! No I'm just a backyard mechanic who can do all the basics, not a real gooroo like some of the guys here. Anyhoo point taken.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
540i E34 V8

Posts: 3583
Reg: 11-2005

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Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 07:12 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, what's the fuss!
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
tt

Posts: 133
Reg: 07-2008

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Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 11:30 pm, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, I have been a mechanic coming up for twenty years. Reliability wise for some unknown reason, Toyota's in general seem to be as reliable as the day is long, however the Soarers are getting old.

They were a car loaded with gizmos that were ahead of their time and are starting to need a bit of TLC but are still cheap to fix.

As for a used by date, these days it seems as the car gets out of warranty its used by date is up.

If you want a reliable car try buying a Holden Astra 2002 onwards. At work in the last couple of years I have had 2 with failed ECUs at under fifty thousand kms and 1800 bucks a hit, 1 with a cracked block externaly at under 100k and 2 months out of warranty , failed gearboxes, electrical problems all over, and nearly everytime you do brakes it turns into rotors as well and you will probably do that 3 times to get you to 100 000 kms.

How about a Ford Focus 6 months out of warranty by time 28,000 kms on the clock and the dead non repairable, not available, non genuine $1400 altenator. Or the Hyundai Granduer I have at work at the moment. It's just hit 100,000 kms and in the last 3 months its had a steering rack spring a major leak, an ECU die (not repairable and 700 bucks second hand or 2 1/2 grand new), uses about 3 to 4 litres of oil between services and the latest is that the trans is starting to slip on 2nd to 3rd shift (has had regular dealer service in early life and well maitained by us ever since.

Or how about VX VY VZ Commodore, radiators at the rate of about 2 a week, sway bar links to the point we keep 3 sets in stock, and not to mention leaking inlet manifolds filling the cooling systems with oil, or the engine mounts collapsing enough that if left the alloy sumps try to rub through on the cross members and power steering leaks everywhere.

Or the GU Diesel Nissan Patrols that are renowned for the engines to self destruct at anything over about 60,000kms up to 180,000 depending how lucky you are (the lucky ones had them die in warranty and were spared the 10 grand pain).

Falcons that will blow a head gasket at the drop of a hat, or fry a transmission, or blow a radiator apart (literaly) if you even think about parking a trailer near them.

The fact that these things are still as easy to get parts for and reliable as they are nearly 20 years on compared to the crap that has been dumped on us by the local manufacturers over the last 20 years is not much short of a minor miracle.

As for Joels heart ache, unfortunately due to the nature of the beast anything that has oil circulating through it in the event of a major engine failure bearing or otherwise is most likely going to have damage, or if something is floating around its going to cause problems.

I pulled a dead turbo of a landcruiser a few years back, only to find the oil feeds blocked by little bits of hardened seal from the failed valve stem seals - its amazing how far and what will travel around.
Ian Johnston
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ30 GT 4.0, UZZ31

Posts: 897
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Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 04:03 pm, by:  Ian Johnston (Ted) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spot on Brett

That was the point I tried to get over earlier in this thread.
And I have been a mechanic for 40 years
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
540i E34 V8

Posts: 3584
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Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 09:10 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brett is so right.

Just look at the new cars in comparison!
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 270
Reg: 09-2005

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Monday, July 20, 2009 - 09:44 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gee this thread went haywire. i was just having a winge because I hardly use the Soarer and it was dieing a slow death on it's own. Don't imagine for a minute that I haven't replaced any parts or maintained the car - like everyone I have done suspension bushes, respray, body kit (fitted and removed), sparkplugs, coils, power steering hoses (twice), brakes, headlights (twice), EMV (repaired 3 times), blinky dash (twice), Engine ECU, and now a brake accumulater, it's just my opinion that everything seems to be now expiring of old age (18 years) and it might get scarier still. I'm not getting rid of the old girl though because I haven't found anything else that inspires me and also they aren't worth that much anyway. They were selling for 30K when I got mine back in 2000.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4499
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Monday, July 20, 2009 - 10:03 am, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is worth remembering that a car selling for $30,000 in 2000 has an expected value of $3,000 today, if one accepts standard ATO depreciation rates.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1046
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, July 24, 2009 - 10:03 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adam IMO some older cars shouldn't ever be restored.

This is VB-VL series holden. IMO they should all be deemed unroadworthy and removed from the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgjtSilW8yM
Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited

Posts: 758
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Friday, July 24, 2009 - 04:12 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

whats the crash ratings on soarers?
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

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Friday, July 24, 2009 - 10:26 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ali Saeed wrote on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 04:12 pm:

whats the crash ratings on soarers?



I dont think there is an official rating in any country. They came out before they started testing all vehicles i believe?
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western Australia
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1381
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Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 03:44 pm, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THere are several "crash ratings" around, one of which is ANCAP. It didn't exist when Soarers came out, of course. NZ has some sort of regime because pre-1997-ish Soarers can't now be imported (presumably because dual airbags became standard in '97). The Soarers getting around there now presumably came in before the regulations changed. Of course post-96 Soarers still come in and are offered for sale from time to time.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone

Posts: 1694
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Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 04:11 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never had anything of any significance go on any of my old cars. They don't make em like they used to.
James Johnson
Tinkerer
Auckland
UZZ31 Soarer

Posts: 97
Reg: 03-2009

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Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 02:12 pm, by:  James Johnson (Jimbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am pretty sure that it is no car older than 7 years now in NZ eg: It's 2009 so nothing made before 2002. How you over come that rule these day's is if you find a car in Japan with all sorts of goodies like suspension and performance up grades you import it and buy a car already registered in NZ and swap the parts over.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

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Monday, July 27, 2009 - 07:59 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For dealers its 7 years I think, private imports are still allowed. Definitely haven't seen a "New to NZ" Soarer on a car yard for two or three years now.

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