| Author |
Message |
Raj Somarouthu
Newbie
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 2
Reg: 07-2009
|
After looking at what happened to Dave, I am concerned about how safe is a soarer?
http://www.soarerworld.com/forum/showthread.php?p=212390#post212390
Please guys could you add in here your experiences and knowledge about the safety features built into the soarer and if possible draw a comparison with a decent modern car like a Jaguar XKR.
Thank you |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 10754
Reg: 11-2004
|
It hit a bus head on and then caught fire. Could have happened with any car.
The Soarer does have fuel cut - which is why we recommend that the fuel ECU bypass is only ever done to test if the ECU is faulty, and not left in place.
However, there is a lot that is inflammable in a car and fuel may not have been involved.
His car probably didn't have air bags, which was available in later Soarers, and may have made a difference with the initial impact. |
Andrew Duaso
TryHard
Victoria
V8
Posts: 243
Reg: 02-2009
|
Safer than riding a bike and getting hit
safer than walking and getting hit
considering the mass, insure in a head on with a 5star micro car you'd stand a better chance
also safer than about any local car from 1991, despite the look after an acident they are a very solid car with a stiff enough chassis, a VN for example is the opposite no airbag or even decent body structure just like siting in a coke can!
Also I'd say safer in a side impact than a comparable sedan of the same year...
And you can't compare it to the jag because jags don't often run, usually only just long enough to get from one mechanic to the next... |
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
tt and a v8 again woo hoo
Posts: 171
Reg: 07-2008
|
I have wrecked a few bent soarers now that have had some pretty big hits and all in all they stand up pretty well to a impact for their age and compared to vehicles of a similar age. As for the bursting into flames that could have been anything. A mate lost his 2 year old vz commodore to a engine bay fire (by the time the mfs got there it burnt to the ground) which the insurance company put down to a power steering leak (first thing he knew about it was it started to miss he pulled over to see what the problem was and up she went). I pulled a bloke out of a pranged vl commodore a few years back as it started to burn. After I got him clear of the car and hit it with a fire extinguisher it turned out to be a electrical fire as the altenator had been crushed in the accident. I used to do a lot of after hours road service in a country district and was first on scene to quite a few accidents during that period and saw some horrible accidents. The sad part is that some very minor prangs were fatal and some major ones were not (a couple of bad ones were very bad however and they were not so lucky) I think it comes down to the fact that it does not really matter what you drive but when your number comes up its your time. All you can do is drive carefully and hope that your number coming up is a long time away |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 4535
Reg: 09-2005
|
At the risk of sounding morbid, Dave Rose seems to be a popular name surrounding Soarers o.O |
Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited
Posts: 902
Reg: 09-2007
|
man have you seen how many "decent modern" cars go up flames? for example $300,000 2006+ lamborghini gallardos..lol like 10 of them have gone up in flames. $300,000 audi r8 couple of those have gone up in flames. id say soarers are pretty fing safe for their age. airbags in 91 :o i didnt even know they existed till like the 2000s
PS
Rip Dave |
Ben Kelly
DieHard
Wentworthville
v8
Posts: 641
Reg: 08-2005
|
well my first soarer plowed into a 4wd bullbar at around 70km/hr and the 4wd was prob going at 50/kmh too. it was a head on and i had only bruising from the belt. the car was a write off but there was no intrusion into the passenger compartment. Gets my thumbs up. thats why i bought another one. |
Raj Somarouthu
Newbie
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 3
Reg: 07-2009
|
Pen, Thanks for clarifying about the fuel cut feature built into any soarer. One of the things I would like to get your input guys is about the built in air bags. I have a 91 soarer and the manual I have for it states that there are two airbags. I am not sure whether it came with the right manual or the previous owner made one up for his reference.
If there are no passenger air bags installed then I would be concerned to take my partner around for cruising. Also is it possible to put an airbag as a mod on the passenger side? Did anybody ever done that before?
Also one of the things I found on my soarer is when it is wet my car seems to slip quite too often at the round about freaking me and other drivers around me. Are soarers generally slippery when it is wet or when there is snow on the roads?
My rear tyres (size - 205/65/17) may be the cause but not sure! |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4567
Reg: 07-2005
|
I recommend a Corolla with as many airbags as possible. |
Raj Somarouthu
Newbie
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 4
Reg: 07-2009
|
Thanks David but this is not my question. I am thinking of spending £6-7K on my soarer for doing various upgrades including brakes, alloys, supercharging, extractors, headers, injectors, piggy back ecu etc.
But is it worth all of these upgrades? Looking from a safety point of view. I obviously donot want to put myself or my partner at risk. Airbags is a bear minimum I suppose atleast to safeguard from a head on collision. I am from scotland and it does get wet and icy very often!
Or I can choose to sell it and move onto an Audi Quattro S-line. Gives me easily 350- 450BHP. Can have both safety and also fun. |
Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited
Posts: 904
Reg: 09-2007
|
yeh your rear tire size is way to small. stock size is 215 or 225. im using 235, and even then it can slip in the wet sometimes. i think 91 soarers only came with one airbag. if it has a passenger side airbag, it will say SRS airbag on the passenger side of the dash |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 10755
Reg: 11-2004
|
The manual might not be for your car, or might explain options which may or not be fitted. If there isn't a passengers airbag, there probably isn't a drivers one either.
Air bags were an option, not a standard fitting.
And not to be confused with the air bags you might have as part of your suspension!  |
Raj Somarouthu
Newbie
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 5
Reg: 07-2009
|
Another thing i would like you guys to look into is, How does a BFI effect the rear to slip? After I did my BFI the throttle response is amazing esp when it is dry. But when it is wet, this response has a negative effect. But my theory might be wrong. You guys can throw some light on this. Cheers. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4568
Reg: 07-2005
|
The implication of my comment was that you display little knowledge or understanding of your car. See your comments on airbags (you should know, without having to ask) and tyres (off the planet). Therefore, you should forget all of your proposed performance upgrades, known also as methods of hastening yourself to an early death, and buy something which you do not even need to understand to be safe in it.
Your comments and queries (e.g. on BFI) are such that I assume you are practising in hope of a career as the new Sacha Cohen. |
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
tt and a v8 again woo hoo
Posts: 174
Reg: 07-2008
|
boy someone isn't getting any to be that bitchy |
Tim Ross
Goo Roo
Qld
TT (6+2>8)
Posts: 1083
Reg: 09-2007
|
You've got to remember David, we all start somewhere with our knowledge. Ease up on the guy.
In slippery icy conditions, thin tyres are actually better. Something a lot of Aussies probably dont know too much because they have never had to drive in those conditions.
I'd suggest that perhaps some further driver training would be more beneficial rather than looking for shortcomings in the vehicle though  |
Justin Camilleri
Goo Roo
QLD
Had a 85 MZ10, 92 TT, Now 91 TT
Posts: 1123
Reg: 07-2005
|
Tim Ross wrote on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 09:58 pm:In slippery icy conditions, thin tyres are actually better
Could you care to elaborate Tim? |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 10758
Reg: 11-2004
|
Imagine a really thin wheel, trying to cut through the ice. Imagine a wide wheel just sliding across the top of the ice. |
Kristian Sibum
TryHard
WA
JZZ31 N/A 3.0
Posts: 319
Reg: 02-2009
|
same with on water |
Justin Camilleri
Goo Roo
QLD
Had a 85 MZ10, 92 TT, Now 91 TT
Posts: 1124
Reg: 07-2005
|
I thought that was a load of crap. Then I google searched and found it made sense. Though needed it more clarified. Apologies.
Narrow tyres are better in snow as they distribute the car's weight over a smaller surface area. Thus the force exerted on the ground will be greater at any given point on the contact patch of the tyre. It is the opposite of this that explains why people wear tennis rackets on their feet to stop them sinking into the snow. A car with skinny tyres tends to slice through the snow, whereas the garden-rollers on a porsche will tend to slide along the surface, like an eskimo with tennis rackets! |
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31
Posts: 4596
Reg: 10-2005
|
Been in two serious accidents in Soarers, and both of them crushed the other cars like tin cans leaving me safe and unhurt. |
Raj Somarouthu
Tinkerer
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 6
Reg: 07-2009
|
Thanks for all your input folks.
I heard the wider tyres/rims are good for dry conditions and track days. Generally they come with a softer compound to increase the contact area which in turn provides more grip in a straight line and also when cornering.
But these are not good for wet and icy conditions. The back of my car is pretty stable and the grip is not bad in dry conditions but it seems to slip often when it rains esp when there is standing water on the road and when the surface is moist or muddy. What do you guys do when there is constant rain and wet condition (which is not unusual up in here in Scotland)?
Heard that thinner wheels are generally a preferable choice for these conditions, though the depth of the groves and a harder compound makes the ultimate difference to the grip rather than the width of the tyre and contact area. This is quite the opposite you require in dry conditions!
Looks like the best solution is to
1) put on wide tyres with good grip for dry conditions
2) Pray for no rain
3) If it rains either stay back and don't turn up at work or drive slowly esp around the round abouts and on roads where the surface is not good (i.e. not behave like a dick and save your self!) |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4570
Reg: 07-2005
|
You googled something weird, Justin, or took the wrong explanation. Contact patch is essentially the same whether the tyre is narrower or wider, as discussed in tyre threads, and pressure is the same because it is force (i.e. the car's weight) over area. What a narrower tyre gains in snow or wet conditions is time, in which to evacuate water or to break through snow or ice.
The snowshoe analogy is false because its premise is different surface areas, so I offer an alternative analogy. Imagine instead that you are standing on sand, facing the sea. Take a few small steps forward or back keeping your feet fairly flat. Take a few small steps sideways, similarly planting your feet flat. So far, you have carried the same weight on the same surface area thus exerting the same pressure and depressing the sand to the same extent.
Now, try brushing away as much sand as you can with a single stroke of your foot, first moving your foot sideways and the second time, in a different place, forwards. Give or take a few other variables, it should be fairly clear that you moved about the same volume of sand in each case but the forward stroke cut deeper. The greater length of foot pushed away more of the sand in the same area to match the sand volume pushed away more shallowly over a wider area by your sideways foot. Yes, I know tyres roll but they have treads or they would not be gripping in wet/ice conditions at all. Relate the same examples to wide-short contact patch and narrow-long contact patch tyres and their ability to evacuate or penetrate water or snow/ice/gravel.
As for Raj, a 28-year old Business Applications Consultant ought to have both the ability and the experience he needs to read before asking questions or else my second hypothesis, that he is trying to take the piss, stands. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4571
Reg: 07-2005
|
When you talk about slipping, does your traction control work?
I would look first at the quality of the tyre, especially wet weather performance, before I worried too much about its width. |
Raj Somarouthu
Tinkerer
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 7
Reg: 07-2009
|
Well David, I put my hand up to say that I surely don't know as much as you guys do in here regarding the soarers. Infact I am a newbie which you might have noticed. But coming to my abilities and experience of driving is totally a different issue which I will try and answer in some other thread 
I used to have Seat Leon Cupra R before and it was fun to see the back slip a little every now and then in wet. But slipping back on a soarer is not that much fun! Probably it is because of the weight of the soarer and mostly due to the width of my tyres.
Coming to the issue of contact area plz see the attachments.
The main issue of posting this thread is to discuss about the safety features built into the car like SRS airbags (i have one for the driver side but dont find any for the passenger side), traction control, collision detection and ECU fuel cut off so that the car dont go on fire etc.
Also share your experiences of being in a soarer and involved in an accident, how the whole thing happened and how safe you felt.
The weather condition here and in australia are quite different. We hardly had a week of decent sunshine the whole of last summer. It has been pretty wet almost every day. So back slipping constantly is a concern. Coming to Ice and snow Being an RWD nothing much I can do.
My beamer(BMW 318i) lost control of its back 2 years ago on christmas eve on the motorway @ 50 MPH with TRC ON. Hit black ice when changing lanes and crashed into the barriers. thank fully came out of the crash with out a scratch. The beamers build quality and safety features are very good! So interested to know about the safety features in a soarer esp. after knowing about what happened to David Ross.
|
Timothy Barnes
TryHard
Bay of Plenty
MR2 GTS
Posts: 115
Reg: 08-2005
|
Raj- The passenger airbag wasn't avaliable until the 1996 facelift so if you car is before that it definitely doesn't have two airbags and possibly has none.
What is most likely is that you have a translated manual which refers to the facelifted model.
As for 'skidding out' and excluding mechanical issues such as worn tyres or poor wheel alignment, I would suggest that you are simply not driving to the conditions. It takes 'a lot' to provoke a front heavy RWD car to swing the rear out. Try to be more gentle in your application of throttle and steering inputs- smoothness is key |
Jol Alexander
TryHard
Vic
V8
Posts: 175
Reg: 07-2009
|
IMHO Soarers are very safe... not just for the actual strength of the car but because of their superior handling and power.
I guess it comes with experience but sometimes havign the power there when you need it can save you. The brakes on a Soarer are awesome.
At the end of the day if you are on an icy road and have a head on with a bus I don't care what car you're in you are dead 
I feel safer with my kids in the soarer then I do in the family wagon.
Raj - " supercharging, extractors, headers, injectors, piggy back ecu etc" .. this sounds to me like you are trying to make yourself a very powerful car .. are you really that concerned with yours and other peoples safety?
I'd hate to be in the car you hit when you put all that gear on. |
Matt Sartori
TryHard
Western Australia
Rx7
Posts: 271
Reg: 08-2008
|
Jol Alexander wrote on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 11:33 am:I'd hate to be in the car you hit when you put all that gear on.
Thats a bit judgemental.
Who says hes going to be going fast on the roads?
Just because someone has alot of powerful mods doesn't mean they go around speeding everywhere.
Although, it is fun. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4573
Reg: 07-2005
|
Raj Somarouthu wrote on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 09:29 am:Coming to the issue of contact area plz see the attachments
Why? So I can re-read what I have just proven I already knew?
Raj Somarouthu wrote on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 09:29 am:Also share your experiences of being in a soarer and involved in an accident, how the whole thing happened and how safe you felt
Hard to say what was my experience of crashing in a Soarer if I have neglected to crash.
Raj Somarouthu wrote on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 09:29 am:The weather condition here and in australia are quite different
You don't say! Maybe that's why I didn't spend my time in Scotland surfing.
The Soarer is about as good as it gets for safety in an early 1990s car. It has not grown younger since then. You appear to have discovered by inspection that there is no passenger airbag, that it has traction control and fuel cut. If you discover collision detection on it then tell Mercedes that Toyota had it in 1991, so you can really piss them off.
You did not say what year was your BMW 318. They have been produced in various guises for a long time. If it was not a fairly recent model, you would probably be better off in the Soarer for crash survival and the BMW for avoiding one in the first place.
I note also that a BMW 318 is not a BMW 6-series, which brings me to my entry point to this thread, most recently summarised by Jol Alexander just above. |
Adam Peterson
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Supercharged & Intercooled V8
Posts: 2603
Reg: 04-2006
|
From my own experience, they're very safe ! |
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
Roadster
Posts: 3617
Reg: 11-2005
|
Is this one of those new joke threads?
Certainly sounds like it.
 |
Raj Somarouthu
Tinkerer
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 8
Reg: 07-2009
|
Yeah man I also noticed a collision detection unit just under the double din unit in the central console. Not sure whether it is what it says it is!! |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4576
Reg: 07-2005
|
Damn! I never had one of them 
A double DIN unit. |
Andrew Duaso
TryHard
Victoria
V8
Posts: 248
Reg: 02-2009
|
•••• you a wanker!
Leave the noob alone |
Adam Lonergan
DieHard
Victoria
UZZ32 #369 (V8)
Posts: 964
Reg: 08-2005
|
Raj, I would be interested to see a photograph of the 'collision detection unit'. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
IS300
Posts: 4577
Reg: 07-2005
|
FFS Andrew! It was a joke, like he made. I would call that sympathetic myself.
Oh well  |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1731
Reg: 08-2005
|
Hell of a lot safer than what I drive now.
Drive what you enjoy. |
Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited
Posts: 908
Reg: 09-2007
|
what are you driving Miles? |
Raj Somarouthu
Tinkerer
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 9
Reg: 07-2009
|
Plz look at the attached images, it does say collision detection on it (I noticed this when I replaced the original double din unit with this DVD unit). This is way deep inside underneath all the wires. I will get more pics of this during the coming weekend as I need to spend a bit more time to remove the unit to take the pictures.
|
Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited
Posts: 909
Reg: 09-2007
|
are you being serious or sarcastic.... |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1732
Reg: 08-2005
|
Look an inch to the left. And add to that an old Hilux for the mud. |
Raj Somarouthu
Tinkerer
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 10
Reg: 07-2009
|
I drive around 80 miles per day. Out of this 50 miles come on the motorway.
As I said in one of the earlier posts, I am planning to do an upgrade on my V8 to put in a set of UK Spec Supra TT brakes, Calipers, performance discs and pads, Supercharge the V8, Change headers, extractors, exhaust, injectors, radiator, new alloys, tyres etc etc. All this to make it also good enough to take to the track, some days. All this would cost at least £7K. But I don't want to feel unsafe after doing these upgrades. So I wanted to get your opinion on the safety features on these cars.
Currently the stopping distance while braking is not great. When it is wet it is even worse the back also slips! All of these comes down to my front/rear alloys and the 2 pot stock brakes. These will be the first things I will be changing. Possibly in the next 2 weeks.
Note: I might have given the wrong impression but this post is not about comparing the cars built in 1991 and how good the soarer fares against them (this would be a silly thing to discuss). We all pretty much know how good is a soarer compared to all other makes of that time. It is miles better and nothing even comes close!! But how does it fare against a 2003 jaguar XKR as this comes already supercharged with an Eaton M112 supercharger. Now I also understand that it is safer than an XKR.
When I started the thread my intention was to find out how it fares in a collision or in a crash. What features built into it would stop it from exploding or going on fire before any rescue arrives. Some of you guys in here did mention your experiences when things went out of hand. Thank you all for your input and sharing your experiences. |
Andrew Duaso
TryHard
Victoria
V8
Posts: 249
Reg: 02-2009
|
That's where the airbag computer is in a lot of cars, Ive seen it. No need for pics dude |
Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited
Posts: 911
Reg: 09-2007
|
the build quality on 2000s jaguar should be horrid anyway. they were going under or something weren't they? |
Raj Somarouthu
Tinkerer
Scotland
Soarer V8
Posts: 11
Reg: 07-2009
|
Matthew Sharpe wrote on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 06:13 am:Been in two serious accidents in Soarers, and both of them crushed the other cars like tin cans leaving me safe and unhurt.
This is exactly what I wanted to know, How strong is the shell even if it hasn't got any airbags! Thank you. |
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