Friday, December 04, 2009 - 12:49 pm, by: Mike Bradberry(Halflife)
I just bought 4 Hankook 235x40x18 H405's for $150.00 each. See if you can beat that. Advance Tyres in Maroochydore if you are after tyre prices. Tell them Mike with the Soarer put you onto them. Maybe not, they might charge you more. 5479 1244 is their number.
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 06:33 pm, by: Mike Bradberry(Halflife)
David Tra, I priced them elsewhere and they were $215.00 each. David V, and your point is? I'm guessing the difference is larger in the dollar value from another source or is the percentage value is larger? I am being specific to the Sunshine Coast. I understand the Toyo's are supposed to be an OK tyre too, David T.
David Vaughan Goo Roo Relaxed, but no provincial. IS300
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 07:29 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
My point is that I bet I can find a cheaper tyre if that is the sole criterion, but that other criteria may be worth consideration, or even more worthy. I will go for quality every time and I will keep banging the drum on that topic.
Tyres are much cheaper than petrol and will do far more to give you driving pleasure and to help you avoid a crash than petrol ever will. If you think they cost too much, set aside a bit every time you fill the tank and the "cost" disappears.
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 07:50 pm, by: Mike Bradberry(Halflife)
On the point of 'quality', it's always subjective. Depends on one's requirements. In my position I need to take dollars into account, but I'm very happy with the better steering and far superior handling, but a little disappointed with the slightly firmer ride. These are things you can't research for yourself. You have to have them on your car and by then of course, you have bought them.
David Vaughan Goo Roo Relaxed, but no provincial. IS300
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 08:42 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
I do not regard it as subjective. Comparative information is easy to find, and dollars are traded for distance driven to a small extent, but the marginal cost is small by the kilometre.
I think I might tell a [true] story shortly.
David Vaughan Goo Roo Relaxed, but no provincial. IS300
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 09:42 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
Back in the 90s, the company for which I then worked provided defensive driving courses. Apart from stuff on technique and skid pans this mostly comprised braking and swerving in wet and dry. My car was a Citroen Xantia, a nose-heavy front-wheel drive small car. There was a Saab, several nondescript cars, and a Subaru Impreza. Obviously, the last would stop fastest, being lighter, considerably lower and less nose-heavy than the two Euros, with same width tyres and probably bigger brakes.
At the end of the day, it was mentioned that the Cit stopped faster than any other car. I was told privately that I was consistently two metres inside the Sube from 80 Km/h in the dry and 60 Km/h in the wet.
Why, when the Sube should have had the advantages in brakes and weight distribution with equal width tyres? Simply because I bought better tyres, the best Michelins you could get, the Pilot Sports of their day. When you consider the other disadvantages of the Cit, two metres from a comparatively low speed is a long way.
What cheaper or more significant advantage can you buy for any car?
Incidentally, on the same day, a large old 70s style saloon skidded through about twice the braking zone while a 4WD was taken off the track as too unstable for the swerve test, and the driver put into one of the instructors cars to practise further.
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:26 pm, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
The H405's basic specs are treadwear 340 Traction A. Indicates a very hard compound of rubber with low traction by todays standards.
I would personally much prefer from tyre test the Hankook V12 EVO. The V12's out perform Pilot Sports and according to online prices are the same cost as the H405's and in some cases the online price of the V12 EVO's was cheaper.
I agree with David, good tyres are worth every cent don't be a cheap arse but also read as many tyre tests that you can find and make an informed decision.
Friday, December 04, 2009 - 11:18 pm, by: Mike Bradberry(Halflife)
Don't know as I was asking for advice Damien. I don't have to justify my decision to anyone. I did make an informed decision based on my criterior which was good tread wear and price. Stickiness and high grip were things I craved in the past. Having given these tyres a fair push today, I am more than satisfied with the grip level for my fast hillclimb run on Sunday. David, You say quality is not subjective. Just because there is a 'general' agreement on the qualities of an item simply means it meets most peoples idea of quality. Surely it is a perspective. It's like 'data' which is generally accepted as being the benchmark by which other things are measured but is always open to interpretation. Even the world of science is constantly reviewed and altered to become contemporary. I have a point of view just as you have. Mine to me, is my truth and yours to you is yours. Both valid, but can be entirely different.
David Vaughan Goo Roo Relaxed, but no provincial. IS300
Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:36 am, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
Mike, I am surprised. Most of what you said to me just above is nonsense.
Firstly, I was not discussing "qualities" but objectively measurable performance. Interpretation is only of explanatory theories. If the data collection itself was invalid or unreliable then we have a problem of data collection, not of interpretation.
Secondly the world of science is not altered to become contemporary. You are thinking of religion which changes to stay approximately a generation behind current knowledge and social attitudes. Science changes when we improve capability to measure or find more comprehensive and accurate models to explain the currently measurable facts.
The critical difference in our point of view lies in our requirements for the tyres, not in our opinion about the tyres as you falsely imply. I am advocating to everyone that they modify their view of their requirements, given the payoff in safety and pleasure from a marginal increase in a price which you have to pay anyway.
Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 09:11 am, by: Mike Bradberry(Halflife)
I have come back to this discussion as I have great interest in 'data', 'interpretation', 'perspective', 'objectivity' and 'subjectivity'. I don't believe objectivity exists as it is always a perspective. You cannot remove the observer so therefore it has to be a perspective. Data is always open to interpretation and changes as further knowledge is gleaned and accuracy improves. Just as happens in science. So there. By the way, I try to be careful not to make personal attacks, so please don't be offended at my passion.
Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:25 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
Personally I hate my Hankooks, can't wait to be rid of them, and will never buy another set, they are not what I was told they wold be at all. The Bridgestones they replaced were a far superior tyre.
However were I living in a very dry climate, they would probably have done me OK. They are just total crap in the wet, which is the only reason I hate them. Unfortunately living in NZ its very often very wet.
David Vaughan Goo Roo Relaxed, but no provincial. IS300
Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:22 am, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
Mike Bradberry wrote on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 09:11 am:
I don't believe objectivity exists as it is always a perspective. You cannot remove the observer so therefore it has to be a perspective.
Are you taking a deconstructionist view here, or is there a confusion between subjective and objective components of metaphysics and epistemology? (Sorry, people!).
Mike Bradberry wrote on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 09:11 am:
Data is always open to interpretation and changes as further knowledge is gleaned and accuracy improves. Just as happens in science
I think you should read again what I wrote in post 4737. Data is open to revision through improved or new measurement but remains data. Interpretation of data is also open to revision and is based on theory or conjecture. These are distinct, whereas you appear to conflate them.
Whether one tyre permits higher cornering speeds or faster deceleration than another is measurable by agreed, repeatable procedures. This is not a matter of perspective. Whether you want such a tyre over another or feel that a given tyre works better for you or gain greater satisfaction from spending less money on them is in the first instance a personal view; an interpretation of the payoff from different selection criteria.
I am not at all offended; far from it, and I mean none.
I started by advocating strongly a position on rational expenditure on cars (tyres) and am now apparently involved in a philosophical discussion about science. It could be fun.
David Vaughan Goo Roo Relaxed, but no provincial. IS300
Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:25 am, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
Incidentally, there are limits even to my advocacy of a position. I do not tow around a trailer-load of spare wheels and tyres so that I can pull over to switch between optimal tyres for dry, damp and wet conditions depending on changing weather.
Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:44 am, by: James Harris(Haro)
UH OH..... Its an Old and Smart people debate ! There are waaaaay too many syllables in this thread.
I do appreciate the nature of this forum though and how simple " I bought a good set of tyres at a fair price from XXXX " has evolved into a friendly natured battle of cunning linguists
Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 08:33 am, by: Adam Lonergan(Alchemistal)
I've just put on a set of 18" Hankook S1 evo K107 (the 2nd highest 'performance' tyre in their range I believe). 235 fronts and 265 rears. Still on the fence regarding them as a day to day tyre, although much better than the Ventus 104 I had before.
Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 09:12 am, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Matthew Sharpe wrote on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 05:18 am:
They are Ventus HPR II's if that means anything to you. They were at the time recommended by someone who I thought knew there stuff.
I believe they are the older version of the HRII (H405) which is as per above not a great performance tyre.
I wouldn't buy or put these tyre on my car so perhaps saying all Hankooks are bad because of this particular long life hard compound low grip tyre...
I had a set of the V8RS which was previously there top of the range tyre, I found them great except for one thing, the rubber compound was IMO too hard. They drove brilliantly the tyre generated good grip under load but the rubber was just a bit too hard to keep up with Pilot sports and the like.
They did have a treadwear of 280 though.
The new V12 EVO according to this review is an exceptional tyre and outperforms Pilot Sports.
Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 02:39 pm, by: David Tra(Bookie)
Wow! awesome responses, stupid me I skimped out on some tyres a while ago. With medium throttle, I am squeeling around the corner like a bogan. The joys of being alive. You live. You learn.
Maybe I should invest in some hancock next time round.
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