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Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 117
Reg: 03-2009

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 06:45 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys!
Well iv owned my beloved soarer for about a year now and done some minor mods such as KKR 137mm Intercooler, Blitz super sound BOV, Torsen Lsd diff, Kewish auto stage 1.5 shift kit(chirps into second and third), Transmission cooler, power steering cooler and have a catback exhaust(stock cat) that is 3 inch, however can be as narrow as 2.25 inches at some bends and a boxed of Cold air intake with a pipe leading to intake from the front bumper!
By the way im boosting 11psi, natural boost, ie. 0.76 bar what is showing on my boost gauge!

From 0-100 iv accurately timed it and get 6 sec

Iv beat my mates 176RWkw S15 silvia thats manual, So i was estimating i have in excess of 170Rwkw

So i thought id get it dynoed today to see how much power iv REALLY got!

Well im EXTREMELY disapointed as i got a MAX reading of 148.7Rwkw! Apparently the tuner thought it was a healthy power figure, however i read here that DEAD STOCK TT get the figures that i got! Apparently he said its running to rich, so im assuming my O2 sensor needs replacing! he also said that his particular dyno is about 5-6 rwkw off(as in reads less than other dynos)so i should really have 155Rwkw, WELL that Still SUCKS! And he also complained that the speed limiter got in the way as it reached it in third! So im thinking he didnt dyno it properly! He cruised it upto 110km/h then o/d off and ect/sports on and then WOT to dyno it! His Excuse was that because my car is an auto it losses 10kw transfering the power at the flywheel compared to a manual, But dont manual and auto soarers get the same power figure?

My car Really does Hammer on the road tho, i estimate id get high 13's quarter mile, so im assuming, theres either something wrong with the dyno or he didnt do it properly!

Please guys i need your inputs on what you think is the problem!
Thanks in Advance

Here are the two dyno Sheets
Please note- Top left corner, it says Power at Engine, Shouldnt it say at the wheels???


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David Tra
Goo Roo
qld
TT

Posts: 1338
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 07:41 pm, by:  David Tra (Bookie) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I say, go to another dyno. Your in melb, why not seek cihan?
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 118
Reg: 03-2009

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 07:48 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David your right Iam planning to get my car tuned by him when i get an emanage ultimate soon, however i thought this was a simple dyno run, i thought what could go wrong? lol by the looks of it alot went wrong, lol!
Bobby Green
TryHard
QLD
TT

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 07:53 pm, by:  Bobby Green (Nash) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found the problem and fixed it for you. That will be $95 for my dyno print out service. Now you have proof that your car has as much power as you feel it does.


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Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

Posts: 1710
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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 08:19 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

haha yeah if you get your emanage or safc2 and tune some of that fuel out you will probably get 20rwkw cause 10:1 is really rich.
id also probably up the boost to say 12psi see what it does then.
also different ramp rated give different readings
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 08:23 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

id also look into the top half of that sheet very bouncy indicating you could be getting small missfires from the over fuelling. im not sure im not a pro but see what cihan says
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 119
Reg: 03-2009

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 08:28 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol, I dont feel it has 230Rwkw Bobby! Good try though lol!

Aaron, thanks for your input! Yer, i think i might boost it first see how it goes! So you dont think my O2 sensor could be the problem?

Cheers mate
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
TT

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 09:14 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Auto Soarers are usually dynoed in 3rd as you described and they only give it WOT at 110 so it doesn't go back to 2nd gear.

The Afr's running the stock ECU are always pretty rich and yours look pretty normal.

As Aaron mentioned the power curve should be a lot smoother than that but it might just be the dyno.

Don't worry about the O2 sensor unless your using heaps of fuel as Basically when on boost the O2 sensor doesn't do anything (open loop)

The power does sound low for the mods you have done especially if that is power at the Flywheel.

The stock cat is very restrictive so that could also be holding the power back a bit.
Check for any boost leaks, Also check your coil packs for cracks and replace the plugs if you have not done so.
And possibly try another dyno.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 5752
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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 09:16 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leaking Caps in the main ECU can cause super richness . And it doesnt matter how much mods you do or how much boost, if the exhaust gets too small, it will restrict power . Maybe the exhaust restriction is an issue ?

And how old are the spark plugs ? the wavy top end could be old plugs not happy or coil packs showing their age .
Andrew Duaso
DieHard
Victoria
G6E turbo

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 09:16 pm, by:  Andrew Duaso (Andrewd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

instead of spending $80 on pointless dyno runs

why not spend $60 and take it to calder and see what it really runs, the dyno operator can around with the dyno if you really want it to read 200kw but in reality it's a tuning tool used for comparison...

the track will tell you what you really want to know and exactly how fast it went, rsm's gtechs etc are all bullshit... but make sure it's calder heathcote's been way off for me i've made several 114mph passes in a 96mph car LOL

not to burst your bubble but your butt dyno may be off a tad, a workmate has a r33 fmic booster 4" pipe and you know the deal, 5 spd manual... it's neck snapping and fast well that what you'd think... up against a g6et it gets flogged no sweat, yet drive both and it feels faster, but it's not... technik tuning arent monkeys and they arent a hektik place that will tell you you've got 200rwkw when you havent, beating your mates car means nothing... i've driven identical cars and smashed my mate in an identical car, feels like 13's? how did you measure 0-100in 6's you'd need to dip into 5's to get 13's unless your slow off the line with huge top end... 11psi on a 2.5L isnt much
Andrew Duaso
DieHard
Victoria
G6E turbo

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 09:25 pm, by:  Andrew Duaso (Andrewd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

btw thats how dts dyno's run, all 3 cars i've had dynoed on a dts dyno have read lower than a dyno dynamics and the line looks the same it's not smoothed like a dynamics... im told they are a little more realistic than a dyno dynamics and slight more accurate and better for tuning on, but then again if the shop had a dyno dynamics dyno they'd have said that about that too

see attached dyno sheet for an example, this was the smmothest running engine you've ever seen, right up to 6800rpm it made the 1UZ i have now seem old harsh and unrefined, yet look at jaggered line, note there was nothing at all wrong with the car or engine

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T 5 speed

Posts: 2596
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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:11 am, by:  Jeff Smith (Mozzie) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had similar mods as you mate and got 180kw's.. What suprizes me is once I installed my FMIC my natural boost jumped to 13psi... But yet yours is on 11psi.. Maybe you have a boost leak also!
Cameron James
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 40
Reg: 09-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 02:23 pm, by:  Cameron James (Dinosoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This story may shed some light on your situation…

My last car (R31 Skyline 5-speed with RB25DET) made 195rwkw with nothing but a FMIC and 3” exhaust – boost held solid at 10psi on just the wastegate. On the road it would skittle in 1st gear a bit and would spin for a second or two if you really smashed it or reclutched into second.

Following this I installed an R33 automatic with Stage2 shift kit – no other mods at all and spun up on the same dyno at the same ramp rate churning out 148rwkw (that’s a 47rwkw loss thru the auto). On the road there was absolutely no way it would spin 1st and I think it only ever chirped 2nd a couple of times. It felt massively slower than when I have the 5-speed in it.

After this I installed a Linkplus aftermarket ECU and had it tuned on 14psi. On the same dyno and ramp rate (again) it made bang on 200rwkw and would absolutely fry 1st and 2nd. The car was seriously quick now.

The moral to this story is, your car would probably make ten different power figures on the dyno at ten different workshops. A dyno should not be used as a benchmark to compare against everyone elses car… unless they were run on the same dyno - it should be used as a comparative tool to measure performance increase on your car – so stick with the one dyno and dyno operator to ensure each run has consistency

Also – 148.7rwkw in an automatic feels very different to 148.7rwkw in a manual!
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 120
Reg: 03-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 05:17 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well guys, I took your advice and went out and purchased 6 NGK iridium Spark plugs $143 for the set(apperently they have no gap)

I installed them myself this afternoon, the old spark plugs were full of oil and rust! Two of my coil packs are cracked, however only around the screw bit, where you screw them in, will this effect the coil pack?

Well after everything went back in, i took it for a test drive, it sounded and felt as idle was much smoother, when driving, accelerating was much smoother, at WOT from 0-100 not much difference just a bit smoother, HOWEVER After 100km/h at WOT, Boy does it pull so much better NOW, id estimate about 10Rwkw more than before!

Thanks so much for everyones input has been very helpfull!
But should i change my coil packs, cause of these little cracks near the screw? if yes, Would i change just the cracked ones or the whole set!

Cheers guys
Austen Menze
TryHard
WA
GT-TL

Posts: 330
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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:24 pm, by:  Austen Menze (Mercyfulfate) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No gap? The NGK Iridium's I bought were set at 1.1mm gap! I'd set them at 0.7mm.
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 121
Reg: 03-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:05 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Austen, it even said on the box of the plugs "do not try to gap these plugs as they are too fine to gap"! I purchased them from repco specifically for the 91 1jz-gte so im assuming they are the right ones, and they do run perfect too!

BTW it does make a difference from 0-100 cause of the spark plugs! I get 0-100 in 5.9 seconds now! lol 0.1, atleast it puts a smile on ma face!

And i do reccomend Everyone that wants that Extra bit of Power from their Car to go Iridiums!!!
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:44 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey shadi i do recommend gapping them as they should be at .8mm as thats the standard plug gap. they only give you the 1.1mm cause thats their closest replacement.
you can gap them you just have to be very careful. so when you do avoid touching the centre electrode.
with the coils if it is only where the screws are it should be ok but if you have fine crack going down the coil a bit of aryldite over the cracks then some electrical tape around it will be a quick fix.
if you have oil down there id say your rocker cover gaskets are leaking. try tightening the bolts slightly and if it continues to leak id just replace the gaskets.
if you can really feel the difference with plugs then that could explain the roughness of the dynograph as may have been slight missfires.
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 122
Reg: 03-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:52 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Aaron, thanks for your advise mate!

Yes the coils looked fine along going down on them!
How do i regap the spark plugs? Do i need any special tools/instruments?

Cheers
Cameron James
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 42
Reg: 09-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:54 pm, by:  Cameron James (Dinosoarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Feeler gauge set or a plug gapping tool will do the trick - just bend or tap the end over to close up the gap until you have the right clearance
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

Posts: 1715
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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:56 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ive found the best is the gauge that looks circular and has the measurements on the outside and a small bit on the inside to wedge out the electrode if needed to open up. i like these as you can slowly put it in the lowest part and twist it around gently till it only just touches then thats your plug gap. instead of trying to force a feeler gauge in.
you can get these ones for a few dollars.
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:58 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have one of these.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Snap-On-BP-Tools-Spark-Plug-Gapping-Tool-Gauge-NEW_W0QQitemZ220537442464QQcmd ZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item33590e50a0

has inches on one side and metric on the other side
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 123
Reg: 03-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 11:06 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so even though they are running fine, you think i should regap them? what will regapping them do? better performance, idle, ect?

Thanks heaps Aaron
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
TT

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 11:15 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The plugs should already be gapped to .8, usually if they are 1.1 gaps it is indicated with (i.e bkr6e-11 for copper plugs) as the last number on the plugs.
Austen Menze
TryHard
WA
GT-TL

Posts: 332
Reg: 07-2009

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 11:40 pm, by:  Austen Menze (Mercyfulfate) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To gap my plugs I use a drill press.
Stick the feeler gauge in the gap and wind the chuck down on it gently until you get the desired gap :-)
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 11:49 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i usually use a small vice and be very careful with it lol
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Friday, January 15, 2010 - 02:44 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Side issue - Didn't the gap change with later models?
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

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Friday, January 15, 2010 - 08:55 am, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not sure may be different with the vvti 1j
Shadi Sabbagh
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 124
Reg: 03-2009

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Friday, January 15, 2010 - 03:43 pm, by:  Shadi Sabbagh (Shadz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aaron?
so even though they are running fine, you think i should regap them? what will regapping them do? better performance, idle, ect?

Thanks
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged :-)

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Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 07:09 pm, by:  Aaron Casey (Blownminiturbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you run higher boost you will more likely get a missfire if your coils arent in good nic
Scott Casey
TryHard
nsw
soarer v8

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Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 10:19 pm, by:  Scott Casey (V8soarer_1991) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Less ark the spark plug has to fire to ignite the fuel/air mix.

It also has to do with the way the injector fires the fuel.

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