| Author |
Message |
Tony Nguyen
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT
Posts: 233
Reg: 09-2008
|
I just booked in for a LPG liquid injection system to be fitted to my car, i'm very excited! Does anyone here have a similar setup? I would to hear some feedback! |
Shane Haverkamp
TryHard
nsw
soarer TT
Posts: 359
Reg: 10-2007
|
why did you go LPG? and whats the difference between liquid injection and normal injection if there is one? |
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac  and a Supercharged Manual V8 
Posts: 4999
Reg: 07-2005
|
Tony,
I have had a TT fuel rail down at JTG for about 18 months or more.
I am planning on doing MONO Liquid when I do get a chance.
Remove the complete Petrol system.
I just done MONO Liquid on a Porsche 944, it turned out well. |
Aiden Cheese
DieHard
QLD
Soarer jzz30
Posts: 628
Reg: 09-2009
|
Not excatly related but we just blended LPG with a turbo diesel car. Power gains were good with no more black soot.
Benefits include faster spool and lower intake temps.
Blend is about 4:1 diesel to LPG, the LPG tank empties 100% at the same time as the fuel tank is 100% empty. Pretty good way to increase mileage, increase power, increase efficiency and not do much damage to your turbo diesel.
Anyway not exactly on topic but an interesting thought. It makes me wonder how well a LPG blend for petrol would run and if there really would be much benefit. |
Tony Nguyen
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT
Posts: 234
Reg: 09-2008
|
I'm hoping for a slight power gain and a big saving! Apparently i'll be making 10% more HP gain on this liquid setup.
Neil, did the porsche have any power gains from the setup? |
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac and a Supercharged Manual V8
Posts: 5003
Reg: 07-2005
|
Hard to say Tony,
Engine was built and compression raised.
Aiden,
Cant blend petrol / LPG, as the mixture becomes to rich.
As for the diesel LPG, dont go playing with it to add more LPG, otherwise it go BANG. |
Aiden Cheese
DieHard
QLD
Soarer jzz30
Posts: 631
Reg: 09-2009
|
Neil Griffiths wrote on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 06:32 pm:
As for the diesel LPG, dont go playing with it to add more LPG, otherwise it go BANG.
Even if it doesn't go bang, it'll run out before the diesel does anyway and ruin the benefits! |
Michael Sinay
TryHard
NSW
TT
Posts: 153
Reg: 07-2005
|
So any updates on the liquid LPG conversion? |
Tony Nguyen
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT
Posts: 455
Reg: 09-2008
|
Hey mate, I've done the conversion and it's progressing real slowly due to some tuning issues. costed me $3500 after rebate for the installation. Gonna get a proper tune done at the LPG place next week. Will update soon. |
Michael Sinay
TryHard
NSW
TT
Posts: 154
Reg: 07-2005
|
Hi Tony, is your setup straight LPG or dual?
Which LPG place did the conversion? |
Tony Nguyen
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT
Posts: 456
Reg: 09-2008
|
It's a dual fuel setup. Got it done at Smithy's LPG in Bayswater. You thinking of doing it? Let me know i can ask them for a rough estimate for current price as i'll in there when they tune it again. |
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack
Posts: 1568
Reg: 07-2005
|
Tony Nguyen wrote on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 08:32 pm:Hey mate, I've done the conversion and it's progressing real slowly due to some tuning issues. costed me $3500 after rebate for the installation. Gonna get a proper tune done at the LPG place next week. Will update soon.
What sort and capacity of LPG tank did you get, Tony? Toroidal in the spare wheel well?
Personally, I'd hate to be on LPG alone (I've had two dual-fuel cars in the past) as suggested above. My nephew converted his old banger himself, and took the carby off, but always paranoid about running out of fuel. Then again, he rarely went outside the Sydney basin. Try driving the outback on LPG alone, and you'll get stuck.
I thought about liquid injection for our Soarer, especially in WA where the subsidy was bigger, but we don't do enough kms to justify the outlay- I've had lease cars for last 4 years and they get driven the most due to the ridiculous FBT laws (meaning you have to meet nominated kms or you get a big tax bill). |
Michael Sinay
TryHard
NSW
TT
Posts: 155
Reg: 07-2005
|
Hi Tony, yeh im very interested. Ive been interested for years, good to see price has become more reasonable now.
Straight LPG wouldnt faze me as there are plenty of service stations around sydney area with lpg, and dont do interstate trips or anything, my previous car was a 13bturbo rx7 running straight lpg and it was awesome, never had a prob finding fuel etc. But it was the basic mixer/carby setup as this is going back 9 years.
Besides im sure i heard u can carry around a backup tank such as a bbq style tank, and have a basic fitting which u can connect up to your fuel filler and fill it into your existing tank if need be. |
Tony Nguyen
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT
Posts: 459
Reg: 09-2008
|
Mike, Yes it's a toroidal in the spare wheel well. I agree dual fuel is the way to go due to the tank being very small for long travel, always good to have a back up fuel tank.
Michael, yeah it's pretty good with the weekly savings. I get around 240km's roughly (driving sensibly) out of a tank and that's running very rich at the moment. After the tune it should be running more km's than that. Hopefully it will perform with top end power which is partially the reason why i took this path. |
Michael Sinay
TryHard
NSW
TT
Posts: 156
Reg: 07-2005
|
That sounds good Tony.
So im guessing they plumb in six lpg injectors, and a piggyback lpg is installed too, is that correct?
Do they say what power output the system can handle? |
Tony Nguyen
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT
Posts: 461
Reg: 09-2008
|
Yeah pretty much drill holes into the runner. LPG system doesn't have any brains to it. It's calibrated to your petrol injector signal. They said they put the same system on a VE commodore and it made 350rwkw and the injectors weren't maxed out. |
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack
Posts: 1569
Reg: 07-2005
|
Aiden Cheese wrote on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 10:47 pm:Even if it doesn't go bang, it'll run out before the diesel does anyway and ruin the benefits!
Apparently the diesel/gas systems are set to revert to "normal" when the LPG runs out. I thought about this for last 4WD, but "where to put the tank" was a big issue. Could have gone in place of the spare underneath the back, but then , where does spare tyre go? |
Scott Vim
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)
Posts: 98
Reg: 12-2010
|
Hey Tony. Where did smithys put the lpg filler? If they had to put it on the quarter I probably wouldn't do it. |
Ross Pesina
TryHard
Vic
Soarer T, Supra TT, Z32 TT
Posts: 333
Reg: 08-2006
|
Tony, where did you get this done? I am looking at putting my soarer on gas as fuel prices keep creeping up and it's making life difficult.
Living in the country, my wife and I clock up over 400km a week on each car.
I'd prefer straight gas so I don't have to sacrifice the spare wheel and run a longer range tank, but this would still do the trick.
I looked into the setup you went with over a year ago and was told they were maxing out the lpg injectors at 160rwkw. Looks like they have improved since then?
What's the rough cost of the setup? and is there still a rebate?
How big is your toroidal? Sorry about all the questions. |
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder
Posts: 6156
Reg: 03-2006
|
SOrry but even with fuel at $1.60 litre its still WAY chepaer than everyone harps on about .
Im no greeny , But people happily pay $5-$8 per litre for bottled water and coke in 600ml bottles without whinging , but complain about fuel costing less than $2/L .
 |
Stuart Geldard
Tinkerer
Queensland
Soarer V8
Posts: 52
Reg: 02-2009
|
Yeah but most people don't drink 2-5L of water or coke on their daily commute either Daniel. Still you would have to do alot of driving to justify the outlay. I, like you I presume, will be sticking to petrol. |
Ross Pesina
TryHard
Vic
Soarer T, Supra TT, Z32 TT
Posts: 334
Reg: 08-2006
|
I'd happily pay $2/litre if my soarer's fuel consumption was half! Unless you have something useful to say in relation to the topic, please keep it to yourself. |
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder
Posts: 6157
Reg: 03-2006
|
Stuart you missed my point . People pay ridiculous prices for products everyday , but complain about petrol all the time .
I Used to laugh at all those &^%$heads lining up for 15-20 minutes on cheap petrol days to save their $2 !!! Seriously , lol , I think my comment is totally on topic .
Mate of mine had LPG injection on his commodore . He sold up . Car didnt have a long enough range , specially as he travelled form Coffs to sydney regularly .
However , Round town it is cheaper to run . Duel fuel is the way to go to get the benefits overall . My mate now has a duel fuel commodore . the RANGE is phenomenal . Yes you still use fuel , but ont he open road fuel usage is quite good , around town is where cars get thirsty .
Ross , you own a Soarer , Supra and 300 zx ???
Maybe sell 1 car to pay for fuel for the others for the next few years ,  |
Ross Pesina
TryHard
Vic
Soarer T, Supra TT, Z32 TT
Posts: 338
Reg: 08-2006
|
Daniel, supra will be up for sale as soon as it's back on the road.
I'd love to keep it as it's one of my dream cars but it's the most valuable out of the lot so it has to go. We have to travel a lot so LPG is the only way to go. Ideally I'd like both the zed and soarer on lpg. The only other option is get a crappy little car, but neither my wife or I can bear the thought. |
Scott Vim
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)
Posts: 100
Reg: 12-2010
|
I had a 1uz ute (engine swap) running an impco carbie system. Never missed a beat and seemed to have a little bit more power on gas then petrol. Thinking about putting my Soarer on it just because I know how well the 1UZ responds to LPG. But if they had to cut into the panel for the filler I probably wouldn't bother. Right now I'm just putting up with petrol. I get about 11.5L/100km out of the 1uz so it's not too bad. |
Allan Langford
TryHard
Vic
UZZ31
Posts: 365
Reg: 05-2010
|
you can put the LPG filler where ever you want, it's just most LPG fitters are lazy butchers and just attack the easiest spot with the hole saw!
you could always put a spring loaded numberplate on the back that folds down to show the LPG filler, not hard to do.
I personalty would ditch the stock fuel tank and put the LPG filler in the stock filler location and run strait LPG |
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31
Posts: 6258
Reg: 10-2005
|
I agree with Daniel - I spend something like $3500-$4000 on petrol a year for my Soarer - around $70 a week - its not really a hell of a lot of money, but its enough that another hundred or two a year isn't going to make much difference, so I don't worry too much if petrol goes up a few cents a litre, I don't bother collecting fuel save dockets unless its convenient, I don't shop around for the cheapest petrol - in the end my time is worth a lot more than the couple of dollars I'd save at the pump. |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 2016
Reg: 10-2005
|
Daniel Clarke wrote on Wednesday, March 09, 2011 - 09:22 pm:Mate of mine had LPG injection on his commodore . He sold up . Car didnt have a long enough range , specially as he travelled form Coffs to sydney regularly .
However , Round town it is cheaper to run . Duel fuel is the way to go to get the benefits overall . My mate now has a duel fuel commodore . the RANGE is phenomenal . Yes you still use fuel , but ont he open road fuel usage is quite good , around town is where cars get thirsty .
Whilst duel fuel is certainly handy, for straight gas you can get a bigger LPG gas tank and keep the range.
Depending on the car it certainly is possible to have a large LPG tank and have as good range if not more than with petrol.
My Dad's which is duel fuel has a 90lt gas tank (it was possible to fit 135lt with some body modifications) and runs on petrol maybe a couple of times a year to make sure it still works and keep semi fresh fuel in the petrol tank.
|
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder
Posts: 6162
Reg: 03-2006
|
He has 3 kids and w ife Damien , so using the whole boot wasnt an option for him as he still needs to fit family stuff as well as everything else . |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
Etuner.com.au New Website & Forum
JZZ30
Posts: 3304
Reg: 07-2005
|
Guys, FYI i tuned a 2.5L V6 single turbo M35 Nissan Stagea with liquid LPG injection yesterday, it maxed out the system at 250awkw, 850Nm tractive effort @ 17psi. The in-line overall flow restrictor is the second largest they offer, so it'll take maybe another 30 awkw or so on the larger restrictor before leaning out enough to go backwards in power.
The car is also running E85 in the tank which it starts on while the LPG system purges.
Powered by an Emanage Ultimate, running switchable injection and ignition maps that cater for both fuels.
It made 248 odd kw and 750 NM tractive effort on pump 98 with less boost in the midrange, nearly the same boost up top. Petrol and LPG are pretty much identical in terms of output.. It'll be tuned for E85 in a fortnight.
Torque curve is perfectly flat, car is slightly more laggy on LPG. No EGT measurements yet.
Should make 270+awkw at 20-21psi on E85 with this turbo, its a high flow ATP jobbie. I hope for 270awkw with the LPG injection also.
On another note, ill be tuning an M35 with 1000cc injectors and dual walbro pumps using the ultimate.. Just to see if it can be done! |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
Etuner.com.au New Website & Forum
JZZ30
Posts: 3305
Reg: 07-2005
|
BTW he was getting 25l per hundred before the tune, will report back when he runs this tank. It was running much too rich on boost, and cruise to be economical.
The good thing about LPG is it'll idle perfectly at 1.2 lamba (really lean) for example, and cruise at max economy without a hiccup. On boost you can run 0.9 lambda or leaner without a power penalty. |
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32
Posts: 2018
Reg: 10-2005
|
Don't get me wrong Dan it might not be straight forward or an off the shelf solution to get a larger LPG tank. But I have seen a few very good well thought out ideas which allowed for over 100lt in capacity with very minimal loss of space.
End of the day if you cant fit a bigger tank or a custom solution is uneconmical you can just stop to fill up more often. |
John Stafford
TryHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 224
Reg: 02-2010
|
Hi thinkers,
I am considering fitting LPG injection but the question is which one: vapour or direct fluid?
If possible I would like to hear from V8 owners who would like to tell their story from both perspectives, liquid and vapour systems. I was going to bring in a cheap system from Thailand but have been told it would not get roadworthy. I am not sure if this is absolutely true or not?
I am in Brisbane, Caboolture Qld. so installers down south are no use to me even if I could get there because of the warranty issues and service and tuning. That is also the problem with overseas systems. Who can fit and tune them? Probably no one without it costing the earth for them to figure it out and the laws don't allow me to do it myself.
Hope someone out there has some thing to say on this. Cheers John |
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack
Posts: 1715
Reg: 07-2005
|
John, all gas systems come from overseas, Holland, Italy and US (for the older carb systems).
Surely there are installers in Brisbane? I wouldn't be mucking around with anything but mainstream installers and systems, personally. |
John Stafford
TryHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 227
Reg: 02-2010
|
I recently talked to the Emer manager (a big European player in the gas field), who was visiting Thailand to train the locals and he advised that I should just get everything done in Australia as the standards and the ways of doing things are quite different. No standardization here and no enforced legislation to limit things, just a gas leak test a few years ago enforced all over the country due to a number of explosions and concern by the general public. There was a corrupt smear campaign by the then Prime Minister, a join owner of NGV (CNG), to say that LPG was unsafe. He legislated to ban it for future taxi installs and said that only CNG (the safe alternative) would be used for public safety. Soon after there were some explosions of public buses due to faulty installs. Some clever people here but not many with training or with the need to conform to standards. There is the good and the bad in every culture. |
John Stafford
TryHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 228
Reg: 02-2010
|
One of my hitches is that I want a system that can handle 400 hp if I decide to do a rear mount turbo. The standard injectors and reducers on vapour injection systems may be ok on the standard 1UZ but will not be up to big horsepower. |
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria (The Nazi State)
Pretty Red Thing and The Black Rattler
Posts: 3247
Reg: 07-2005
|
Liquid injection is the best option, but not mainstream yet as far as I know. It's tuned exactly the same as a petrol engine, ie. ecu and laptop and has the added bonus of cooling the air charge significantly, thus gaining HP. |
John Stafford
TryHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 229
Reg: 02-2010
|
Yes Dan, I am ophey with how it works but wanting to know if anyone out there has it on their Soarer V8. I have been talking to LPG warehouse who also have a shop that specifically specializes in high performance turbos and LPG systems apart from the standard installations. They recommend vapour injection using Emer equipment and say they have not maxed it out on a big turbo V8 yet. They seem to be very knowledgeable and experienced. I am considering doing a rear mount turbo on the 1UZ and want to have the system which is both the most efficient and economical too. I was wanting end user input as well as sellers input. Cheers John |
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