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Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4976
Reg: 11-2005

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 09:33 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In USA the Obama administration promoted this scheme to pay out people up for $4500 for their old car if it was classed as uneconomical aka, a clunker.

So basically these cars are traded in and then the motors HAVE to be destroyed. Usually by means of putting in something into the oil to stuff the engine by seizing it or to just drain the oil or coolant out, followed by revving it until it dies! The rest of the cars usually have a few parts stripped but it seems the majority go straight to the tip.

I no way can I see this is good for the environment, most of these cars were in fine shape, killed before they were due to expire all because of some lousy politicians ideas.

Many of these cars would have made people very happy given the chance to own them and put some TLC back into them.

Killing a Supra

Killing MB 560SEC V8


Killed LS400
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Killing W126 Mercedes


Killing a Legend V6


Killed XJ6


Mercedes

Dead LS400

Manual BMW 530i being killed


I think its disgusting, so much waste, sure there were a lot of crappy cars but so many nice older 80s and 90s cars that could have been good for years and years.

Loads more clips like this on youtube.

All the people that are trading these cars in end up getting crappy Kias and low cost Asian cars. That will have no where near the reliability.

Being a car enthusiast regardless of the car it makes me sad destroying a car needlessly.

James Buchan
DieHard
Vic
V8

Posts: 744
Reg: 10-2008

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 09:38 pm, by:  James Buchan (Jrbuch) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Watching these clips is depressing. Some of those cars looked to be pretty decent!
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11762
Reg: 11-2004

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:59 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Labor has announced a copycat scheme for Australia, though the payout is $2k and you have to buy an eco ($$) car.
Matt Sartori
DieHard
Western Australia
Rx7

Posts: 777
Reg: 08-2008

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 01:38 am, by:  Matt Sartori (Klutch) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Might be wrong here..

but this is all to save the planet, right?
Would the energy and materials used to make a new car, not far outweigh the bad polution that an older car would put out..?
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
UZZ31

Posts: 2751
Reg: 09-2007

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:04 am, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"save the plant" just another way to tax us more. fkwits
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5764
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:10 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right on Ali - and of course the real motivations for this in the US were because the US had just bailed out the failing US automakers and needed a way to help them sell more cars. In the end I doubt the environment was a concern at all.

Those old, well maintainted European and Japanese cars with 1990's designed engines probably still pump out less emissions than the 1950's designed engines they are still putting in US cars these days.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4977
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 08:29 am, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Peter Nitschke wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:59 am:

Labor has announced a copycat scheme for Australia, though the payout is $2k and you have to buy an eco ($$) car.







Matt Sartori wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 01:38 am:

Would the energy and materials used to make a new car, not far outweigh the bad polution that an older car would put out..?




Yeah, it is completely wasteful.


Ali Saeed wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:04 am:

"save the plant" just another way to tax us more. fkwits




Exactly.

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:10 am:

Right on Ali - and of course the real motivations for this in the US were because the US had just bailed out the failing US automakers and needed a way to help them sell more cars. In the end I doubt the environment was a concern at all.




That is all it is in my opinion.

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:10 am:

Those old, well maintainted European and Japanese cars with 1990's designed engines probably still pump out less emissions than the 1950's designed engines they are still putting in US cars these days.




I agree. I think some 80s-90s cars were the best ever built.
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
UZZ31

Posts: 2753
Reg: 09-2007

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:15 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

they dont make cars like they used to. i compare my soarer to my sisters 2010 camry, and it seems less..solid..i feel less secure because i can seem the foam(?) in the front fenders :s sure its economical and stuff..but the build quality is not anywhere near the soarers. i remember when we were shopping for her car we had a look at a leather top of the line camry, and the leather seats were horrible. the stitching was badddd. 80/90s cars ftw
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4980
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:39 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hardly surprising Ali.

Oh for god sake, even one of these my favorite car when I was a kid. XJ8!



I was reading further apparently there have also been road legal, running examples off the following blown up and crushed

1997 Aston Martin DB7
Bentley Continental R
1980s Porsche 928s
1999 Mercedes C43 AMG
2000 Jaguar XK8 convertible
1998 BMW Z3 Roadster
1991 BMW M3
1990 BMW M5
2003 Ford Explorer.

Utterly ridiculous.

Sure lots were 250k mile sheds, but countless thousands were good 4x4s and sedans, V8s and things from the mid 90s to the mid 20s!

Any of them would have been ideal for low income people needing cheap cars, students and car collectors restorers using them for parts.

The whole thing is illogical.
James Cahir
TryHard
ACT
Soarer TT

Posts: 418
Reg: 04-2008

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 03:16 pm, by:  James Cahir (James987) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rather than trashing the scheme itself (which isn't a bad idea, and besides it's not like the Government is holding a gun to your head forcing you to trade in your old car), I think the problem lies with the morons that trade in these good condition prestige cars, e.g- the owner of that BMW 530i.


Mike Beck wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:39 pm:

2003 Ford Explorer.




But in some cases it's the right decision
Phil Gibson
Goo Roo
WA
'91 UZZ31 track bunky, '94 blk/blk UZZ31

Posts: 1683
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 03:25 pm, by:  Phil Gibson (Sciflyer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ Most of the exotic cars on the official list were there as a result of administrative error (ie someone didnt identify the car being crushed properly

http://jalopnik.com/5454090/exclusive-jalopnik-audit-of-clunked-exotics-finds-initial-news-reports-f alse

While to us some of the cars above would seem far too good to wreck, you have to remember that if those cars are deemed less than $4500USD then there is obviously considerably more wrong with the vehicles than it appears
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4981
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 03:47 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Phil Gibson wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 03:25 pm:

^ Most of the exotic cars on the official list were there as a result of administrative error (ie someone didnt identify the car being crushed properly




More than likely, I haven't found enough information to say if these cars were actually scrapped.

No one in hell would scrap an old DB7 unless they were on drugs.

But yeah, the real blame lies with the owners that didn't appreciate what they had which could have sold the car to someone else to enjoy - but the problem is most of those cars would have been worth less than the rebate so they were getting a better deal getting rid of it as a 'Clunker'


Phil Gibson wrote on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 03:25 pm:

f those cars are deemed less than $4500USD then there is obviously considerably more wrong with the vehicles than it appears




Quite true, I am sure many had other faults the owners couldnt afford, but clearly some were just killed before their time.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 4982
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 04:01 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Never the less, waste like this can not be justified

I would love to have an old Land Cruiser, especially a 1989 example with only 77,000 miles on it.



But oh no, its 21 years old and does 15MPG therefore it is junk.

Ridiculous.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5772
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 07:32 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hah, the 2003 Ford Explorer line made me laugh! Yeah those things are junk the day they come off the production line. Can't understand why they are so popular here!
Steven Anderson
DieHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 507
Reg: 05-2006

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Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 12:22 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cash for clunkers was not an environmental thing, its was a stimulus thing to help the struggling automakers. The tacked on envirnmental stuff was pure fluff.

In this respect it worked brilliantly, environmentally it was completely
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
Accord Euro Luxury

Posts: 425
Reg: 09-2005

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Friday, August 20, 2010 - 12:21 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote "Hah, the 2003 Ford Explorer line made me laugh! Yeah those things are junk the day they come off the production line. Can't understand why they are so popular here!" Quote

I have a 2002 at present and previously had a 1997.
Everyone bags them but they are great value.
I just paid 8K for my 2002 which has a 4.6 litre Mustang V8, 5 speed auto, and lots of creature comforts. I can legally tow 2500kg and it has heaps of power.

If I want to get the equivelant model Landruiser, Pajero or Patrol I would be paying well into 30K.

Just like the Soarer, it is heaps cheaper to source parts offshore. I needed to replace the front wheel bearings with this latest one and they are a sealed hub. Ford wants $450 ea. I got a brand new non genuine pair (2) from the USA for $180 delivered (in only 5 days too.

These are a grossly underated vehicle in Aus (Explorers are the largest selling 4WD in the world) probably based on the crap publicity from the Firestone tyre issue.

Now if you were talking about a Taurus............
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
2002 Ford Fairmont AUII 6 cyl.

Posts: 7656
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Friday, August 20, 2010 - 04:44 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Gary Redman wrote on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 12:21 pm:

Now if you were talking about a Taurus............



If I had one of those, I would have CLI as the rego plate..........Why?

CLI-Taurus (c**t of a car!)

Joshua Rao
Goo Roo
WA
JZZ30 vvti auto GT-L, JZZ30 vvti turbo BLK on BLK manual, V8 UZZ31 (being wrecked), Legnum VR4

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Friday, August 20, 2010 - 10:29 pm, by:  Joshua Rao (Soaren1) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i like that, nice Don. This is sad I think. Gary I really would have thought the Landcrusier was the worlds most popular 4wd due to them being used everywhere ie army, middle east etc
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
Accord Euro Luxury

Posts: 426
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Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 02:31 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nope. More Ford Explorers sold than any other 4WD.
As well as private sales, Ford made govt versions for Police, Sheriffs etc.
Next time you are watching the original Jaws movie, the cop car on the beach is an Explorer.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 5002
Reg: 11-2005

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 04:51 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every dealer yard must have got an Explorer when they were traded in.
Ben Kelly
DieHard
Lakemba
v8

Posts: 882
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Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 08:34 pm, by:  Ben Kelly (Ace) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think there are two separate issues here. 1 is the worlds environment which needs urgent attention according to the majority of scientists and right thinking people 2. is the political use of this fact and probable disguise for economic stimulation. before you write off 'green' thinking most greenies would say 'reduce, reuse and recycle' in that order. Ie. scrapping older cars is not really on the green agenda so to speak.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 5009
Reg: 11-2005

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Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 09:00 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ben Kelly wrote on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 08:34 pm:

1 is the worlds environment which needs urgent attention according to the majority of scientists and right thinking people




Key word, 'according'
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5794
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, August 23, 2010 - 07:57 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've done a lot of reading about it lately, and after being initially a skeptic, I have changed my mind and agree that the world ecology is in crisis - however I do think that the internal combustion engine is contributing very little to this crisis, that global warming is probably far less important than impending resource shortages, and that as per usual, humanity will not deal with it properly until it is almost totally unmanageable.

The real, base problem is that there are just too many people living beyond the means of the planet to sustain - economically and ecologically. Everything else is just a symptom of excess population and greed, and anything other than radical population control is just putting a band aid over it and hoping it'll go away.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 5012
Reg: 11-2005

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Monday, August 23, 2010 - 08:26 am, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 07:57 am:

The real, base problem is that there are just too many people living beyond the means of the planet to sustain - economically and ecologically. Everything else is just a symptom of excess population and greed, and anything other than radical population control is just putting a band aid over it and hoping it'll go away.




Indeed. Far too many people today.

I read India's population expands by 20,000,000 a year, that's 5 times NZ population!

Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5799
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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 08:02 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought about it a lot before starting a family - in the end I decided that I could raise some good kids who might end up making a difference in the world, regardless of what its like in 50 years - since most people breeding in NZ these days are mouth breathers who seem to have difficulty abstaining from beating half their enormous tribes of welfare supported children to death, I kind of ended up feeling like I had a responsibility to try and create some productive people.

I just hope my kids have a chance to make the same decisions.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

Posts: 5025
Reg: 11-2005

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 02:46 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mmmm I heard you.

It's something that has also crossed my mind too, when I have children, what sort of future will they have in this odd ball society thats been created over the past couple of decades? How will it be 15 years from now?

Then again, you just need to look on the bright side and hope who you bring into the world and raise in the right way can rise above the majority and have a decent quality life.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11775
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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 09:54 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our parents worried too, they had come from a background of world wars, the cold war and nuclear threats. So far so good, but the coming GFC MkII will probably change all that.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 07:59 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, one of my friends at work who is a total genius and is pretty much never wrong about anything picked that 2008 was just the "mini-dip" before the real thats still to come. I believed him and now things are looking to prove him right.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Friday, August 27, 2010 - 11:03 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, get into metal if you want to have anything left.
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo
Western NSW
3.0GT G-Pack

Posts: 1507
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 09:40 am, by:  Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Sharpe wrote on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 07:57 am:

The real, base problem is that there are just too many people living beyond the means of the planet to sustain - economically and ecologically. Everything else is just a symptom of excess population and greed, and anything other than radical population control is just putting a band aid over it and hoping it'll go away.




Couldn't agree more, Matthew. Our politicians are finally beginning to talk about a population policy for this country, after neither major party had one for years. It was considered "racist" to even talk about immigration or population control. Why, I don't know as most of our immigrants are from Europe and NZ! The Labor party (some, like dearly departed Chairman Rudd) thought it was fine for our population to blow out to 35 million plus thought we could bring in 300,000 new immigrants every year and meet "greenhouse targets" at the same time!
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11785
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Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 09:53 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=channel

This is the first of a series of 8 videos, most people don't get through them all, but it is worth the effort.

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