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Christian Somerville
Goo Roo
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 1271
Reg: 03-2009

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Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 05:05 pm, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys, I have been looking into the JZ engines a bit lately as I will hopefully be getting into one in the near future.

From what I have gathered the major advantages of the VVTi over the earlier model 1JZ are:

-Better fuel economy
-Better turbo response
-Max torque at half the revs (
378Nm@2400rpm vs 363Nm@4800rpm)
so I've gathered boost is max at 2400rpm and then the peak will drop at higher revs, so the non VVTi engine has better top end boost and VVTi has better low down

Other than this I have found the compression ratio has altered from 8.5:1 to 9:1.

The turbo's:
1JZ-GTE - Twin CT12a (good for 250rwkw)
1JZ-GTE VVTi - Single CT15b (good for 225rwkw)

I have also read that the earlier model 1Js have better bolt on support and are easier to squeeze power out of.

So the question I have is:
What would be the better engine for me mated with a factory R154 in which can be easily worked to produce decent numbers.
I preferably would choose the VVTi for the low down torque and the newer technology!

But would love to hear people's thoughts!

I also read about the turbo's and that the CT12a can produce good numbers with a steel wheel and rebuild, I am not to sure if other cartridges are compatible or any other info about them.
The CT15b is also ceramic from memory so I would assume substituting it with a steel wheel and maybe a proper rebuild would help it to produce good power!

Any comments on the 2JZ? would this be the better alternative in the long run?

Any comments would be great guys, cheers!

Christian.
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
UZZ31

Posts: 3380
Reg: 09-2007

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 01:44 am, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

depends how much power you want and what sort of RPM you want the power at and how much you want to spend
Joshua Rao
Goo Roo
WA
TT (for sale $5.2k), 97 Blk UZZ31, 97 JZZ30 vvti turbo white manual, 96 vvti turbo manual, Legnum VR4, MR2 sw20, Alfa 156

Posts: 2584
Reg: 09-2006

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 02:17 am, by:  Joshua Rao (Soaren1) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dude the vvti is harder to find mods for but it is a much more streetable turbo setup with power from 2k but yes a TT has more power up top.

If you want to do it cheap cheap go TT, if you want to do it proper go vvti. Both great stock packages though.

I will be wrecking my manual vvti turbo, so if your interested you could take that as a perfect package. Pm me if your interested.
Rowan McMahon
DieHard
WA
GTT-L

Posts: 587
Reg: 07-2010

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 02:44 am, by:  Rowan McMahon (Mr_eps) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Christian you know my thoughts on the matter but in case you weren't reading I'll say it again :p

It honestly depends on what YOU want.. The TT I will be the first to say that it's a more .. Rocket fueled drive. I dunno why I just think it feels faster... Even if it isn't...

The vvti seems just a lot more docile and placid, even with the foot down! And yes it makes peak torque easier than the TT.. Buuut from the time it makes peak torque to the time it comes on fullsong... There's... Not much going on there...

I mean... The TT feels like hhhmmmmmwwwwwWWWOOOOOWWWWWWW

Whereas the vvti feels like WWWOOOOWWWWWWHHHMMhhhhmmmmmm...


So it depends on how many people you want to drag race..

Me personally I'm not really into drag racing, I'm no granny foot mind you.. But there is a certain buzz about putting 50 bucks into your tank and knowing that will carry you through to next week...

But if you're the type of driver who values sheer boost reliant power and likes fire balls coming from your exhaust and being able to say at parties that you have 400kw...

Then the TT is for you! I miss having a TT to be honest..

But that said.. Sitting in a TT then sitting in a vvti - you just think Ohhh thank I'm home.
Just the little things about the vvti that impress me..

Better glass in the windows
Better wiper stalks
Newer carpet
Better door skins that don't feel flimsy
Nicer suspension etc..
Oh and the dash on the vvtis are soooo much better an clearer too I find..

Little things like that are why I Personally prefer the vvti..

If you like cheap power and cheap fast car - then go the TT

.. If you want a car that you can carry with you to your grave... Then find a vvti :-)

A few more things about the vvti - highflowing the CT15 is a good idea.
And the vvtis can be just as happily boosted as the TTs

AND they get their superior economy FROM their torque.. As well as ETCS..
But because of their torque etc, there's not so much need to flog it day to day driving.. It gets up to speed completely effortlessly so the economy goes very well in that regard...

There's a couple of vvtis on yaj right now... White Lpack with sunroof.. Traffcstar STR 19in fronts and 20s rears... Looks a bit nice .. :-)

You told me you wanted to hold off a few years... In my opinion if you wait much longer then your biggest battle will be finding someone in japan with a proper nice soared that's willing to sell... I am finding that as times move on, the nice ones seem to just be getting kept!!!
Christian Somerville
Goo Roo
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 1272
Reg: 03-2009

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 10:31 am, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ali - basically, the easiest to pull power out of and tune, so if I was spending 3k for instance on rebuilding the turbos or what ever, which engine would be more suitable/more bang for your buck.

Josh - cheers for the offer mate, will be a while yet until I get into one, I do agree about the VVTi though.

Rowan - Cheers for the essay man, appreciate the time! I have read similar write ups to what you've said - in that the 1JZ-GTE non VVTi screams more at high revs, the VVTi sounds more like my sort of engine, low down torque would make me happy, going from a V8 :-)
I have driven TTs before and found there isn't much below 3000.
Matthew Hamono
Tinkerer
sa
TT

Posts: 75
Reg: 01-2011

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 10:49 am, by:  Matthew Hamono (1jz_kid) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TT broo, i love my car :-)

that should be enough justification haha
Christian Somerville
Goo Roo
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 1273
Reg: 03-2009

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 09:44 pm, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm, well leaves me with a bit of a dilemma in which one to choose, I'm sure a good 1.5JZ would also go down nicely, I will keep looking into it and have a good drive of both before I make up my mind, my mate just imported a JZX100 with a VVTi 1J in 5spd and I am driving it next weekend, the day he gets it, should help me decide! Cheers for the input guys :-)
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
UZZ31

Posts: 3385
Reg: 09-2007

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 09:47 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

will you be buying another soarer Christian?
Matthew Hamono
Tinkerer
sa
TT

Posts: 77
Reg: 01-2011

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Monday, May 09, 2011 - 10:17 pm, by:  Matthew Hamono (1jz_kid) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

man jzx100's are sexy, i wouldn't mind one!
Vinh Nguyen
Tinkerer
SA
JZZ31

Posts: 13
Reg: 03-2011

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 10:36 am, by:  Vinh Nguyen (Vinism) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mmmm jzx100
Christian Somerville
Goo Roo
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 1274
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 10:55 am, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nah going out of the game for a year to 2 as I'm not driving it atm as the Corolla is cheaper on petrol and I live a fair way from uni, so Vinh might be buying it off of me and then after I have payed off a medical debt I will start looking at saving for another.
James Buchan
Goo Roo
Vic
V8

Posts: 1125
Reg: 10-2008

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 12:11 pm, by:  James Buchan (Jrbuch) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They all go hard Christian, I've had rides in non vvti 1JZ's, 1JZ's with modified turbos i.e t3g's, vvti's with bpu mods, and 2JZ's as well, both non vvti and with vvti.

If you want my honest opinion the two engines that are most memorable/fun for me are the 1JZ VVTI and the 2JZ-GTE non vvti with bpu mods.

I too am thinking of changes, though more will be revealed later.
Christian Somerville
Goo Roo
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 1275
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 05:34 pm, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James! I'll Facebook ya :-)
Emil Roytapel
Tinkerer
CA
2JZ-GE

Posts: 12
Reg: 09-2009

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Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 10:20 pm, by:  Emil Roytapel (Ryeno) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Going from the 7M-GTE to the 1JZ-GTE is like going from the 1JZ-GTE to 1JZ-GTE VVT-i. Someone elses words, not mine.

The 1JZ-GTE VVT-i is a far superior design Higher compression means more power with lower boost. VVT-i increase turbo spool and helps with low-end power. CT15b is much better across the entire powerband versus the ct12a x 2 which are only better at the very very peak. Coil packs are more stout allowing higher boost without a DLI and being far less prone to cracking. non VVT-i versus VVT-i It's a no brainer really.
Ross Pesina
TryHard
Vic
Soarer T, Soarer TT, Supra TT,

Posts: 439
Reg: 08-2006

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Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 10:21 pm, by:  Ross Pesina (Ross79) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't remember where I read it but the non VVT-I engines have stronger internals. So I guess it depends on your power goals. But if I had a choice, I'd go a 2JZGTE. I love the power from idle feel of the sequential turbos.
Jose-Antonio Castillo
Goo Roo
NSW
JZZ30/UZZ31/JZS160

Posts: 1851
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 08:35 am, by:  Jose-Antonio Castillo (Ahh_soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ross Pesina wrote on Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 10:21 pm:

I can't remember where I read it but the non VVT-I engines have stronger internals.



The N/A versions have weaker internals, the blocks between on the GTE's are the same.
Michael Wilkinson
Tinkerer
SA
TT

Posts: 24
Reg: 03-2007

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 11:18 am, by:  Michael Wilkinson (Michael_wilkinson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Curious if anyone knows what the fastest jzx100 (or 1JZ VVT-I) 1/4 mile time on stock turbos is? I had a look around myself and from what I could see the completely unmolested stockers will put out as little as 135-140rwkw and run the 1/4 down in up to 15+ seconds. VVT-Is with BPUs seem to be netting about 190 rwkw and mid 13's. Given some variation in dynos it seems VERY difficult to push the stock turbo past 200rwkw. I haven't seen any VVT-Is push into the 12's on the stock turbo but I am happy to be corrected!

In stock form the 1J TT is bettered by some more tractable engines (1JZ-GTE VVT-I and 2JZ-GTE) but start modding on stock turbos and nothing appears to be going down the 1/4 faster the auto 1J TT's.

Bit of an afterthought but does anyone know what 1/4 time the fastest 2J on stock turbos has achieved? I would assume it's an auto Supra.
Brett Harrison
DieHard
QLD
JZZ30

Posts: 698
Reg: 09-2005

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 12:36 pm, by:  Brett Harrison (Bretto) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael 12's on stock turbo/turbos is pretty common.
Remember, stock soarer 5 spd, ran 13.9's.
If you just stripped that, and made no other modification, you could run low 13's.
The biggest problem offcourse, is finding a healthy engine and turbo's. Most are worn out, and that reflects in poor performance most see at the track, despite a host of modifications.
There was one chap on here years ago, that ran a 13.1 in his stock, auto tt soarer, just wound boost to 18 psi with bleed valve. It was at a drag day, and witnessed by other members. Now that is obvisouly a healthy engine and it showed.

I ran 13.6, years and years ago, with a cat back exhaust, pod filter, 107 mph. Full trim interior, floor mats, spare everything, down to bag of clothes in the boot. also had 32 psi in tyres, and ran a slow 2.2 60 foot.

I remember an old performance dvd I was watching years ago, it had a drag segment in there. They were running a Cresta or similar, MX83, ran a 10.9, 1jzgte, stock turbo's, as it made special mention of it. I guess If you run enough fuel and boost anything is possible over the 1/4 mile. I'm not sure if it was stripped etc, I would assume so though, with that sort of time.

Pretty hard to replicate that now, as these turbos are twenty years old, and can't get new ones.
Michael Wilkinson
Tinkerer
SA
TT

Posts: 27
Reg: 03-2007

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 12:50 pm, by:  Michael Wilkinson (Michael_wilkinson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Brett, you're talking about the TT right? Definitely proven pathways to 12's on stock turbos for the TT, no question about that, but as for the VVT-I doing 12's on the stock turbo, I'm not so sure.
Brett Harrison
DieHard
QLD
JZZ30

Posts: 699
Reg: 09-2005

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 12:58 pm, by:  Brett Harrison (Bretto) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes TT,
I would have thought it would be even easier ? they are newer engines, and typically make a little more power at dyno days with comparable mods. They're at least on par.
Michael Wilkinson
Tinkerer
SA
TT

Posts: 28
Reg: 03-2007

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 01:29 pm, by:  Michael Wilkinson (Michael_wilkinson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lol, I've lost track of the number of times I've almost talked myself into buying a JZX100, I'm definitely a fan. But here's the interesting thing, torque characteristics and dyno numbers aside, the TT's are quicker down the quarter than the VVT-I. Dare I say it, also quicker than Supras.

http://www.jzx100.com/forum/topic/3484-official-dynoet-thread/
Scott Vim
TryHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 176
Reg: 12-2010

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Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 12:17 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah you are right Michael because you can't boost the single up too high and it runs out of puff around the 6000rpm mark. So I'm running about 14.5psi but by about 5000rpm it drops off to about 12psi and by 7000rpm it's about 10.5 psi. So peak power is only 210rwkw. But really I have a load more power and torque before 4000rpm then a TT would. But I also have huge issues with wheel spin...
Bradley Parnell
Tinkerer
QLD
JZX100 Chaser, 1JZ VVTi

Posts: 73
Reg: 11-2006

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Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 02:35 pm, by:  Bradley Parnell (Scrad) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bought a JZX100 a couple of years ago after owning a JZZ31 (2JZ-GE). The engine is silky smooth, but still manages to pull like a freight train from 2500RPM all the way to the redline. Mine only has zorst and pod filter and runs about 8-9PSI.

A mate has a non VVTi manual soarer and I think he only ever managed to run 14.1 down the 1/4 mile, I ran 14.1 the other night @ 95mph, and that was spinning through first and second (need better tyres).

From what I have read I decided that a VVTi would be better for a lightly modded daily driver, where as if you were going to do serious work a non VVTi one would be the way to go.

I love my JZX though, considering its largely stock it manages to hold its own against stock LS1 Commodores, and after all, isnt that what life is all about? :-)
Emil Roytapel
Tinkerer
CA
2JZ-GE

Posts: 14
Reg: 09-2009

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Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 06:47 pm, by:  Emil Roytapel (Ryeno) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.3sgte.com/1JZGTE.htm

Diagram 11 to be specific. Yes the 1JZ VVT-i has better internals.

The biggest con of a HIGHLY built 1JZ VVT-i is the higher compression ratio but at the point which 9.0 CR Vs. 8.5 would come into play you'd best be off swapping in a 2JZ (VVT-i preferably) .
Ryan Rankovic
Goo Roo
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 1663
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, June 17, 2011 - 09:46 pm, by:  Ryan Rankovic (Ryan1j) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i ran 13.2 with a non vvti 1jz... would have easily broken into the 12s with a shiftkit id say
Jose-Antonio Castillo
Goo Roo
NSW
JZZ30/UZZ31/JZS160

Posts: 1856
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 10:24 pm, by:  Jose-Antonio Castillo (Ahh_soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the majority of the reason why the VVTi 1J might be a little slower off the mark (regardless of chassis) is that they run drive-by-wire from memory. Haven't experienced much laginess in a manual one but in an auto there is a noticeable lag time between depressing the accelerator to the point where the transmission seems to engage.
Bradley Parnell
Tinkerer
QLD
JZX100 Chaser, 1JZ VVTi

Posts: 74
Reg: 11-2006

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Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 11:12 am, by:  Bradley Parnell (Scrad) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My VVTi 1J is still drive by throttle, but they have ETCS which will try and smooth out your throttle movements.


I disconnected it and it made a huge difference to the way the car drives. Unleashed the dragon somewhat.
Dave van Staveren
Tinkerer
South Australia
Soarer Limited coupe v8

Posts: 32
Reg: 03-2011

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Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 11:43 am, by:  Dave van Staveren (Deveous) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Christian, i believe you forgot another engine combination in this thread... UZTT... I can supply you an old Zoom magazine write up on a West Aussie Celica, UZTT running 9's on an internally stock, unopened mill. Just a thought (ive been having) :o)
Christian Somerville
Goo Roo
South Australia
UZZ31 V8 LTD

Posts: 1342
Reg: 03-2009

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Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 11:05 pm, by:  Christian Somerville (Csomers) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah nothing beats a V8 Dave! I will always return to a V8!

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