Soarer Central: Intake "POD Filter" comparison

Soarer Central General Soarer Chat Intake "POD Filter" comparison

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Aka Abedin
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Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 03:59 pm, by: Aka Abedin (Soarer_91tt)

For those who want to hear their induction noise.

Good to see some of the cheap alternative brands are outperforming big brands.

http://www.3aracing.com.au/HTML%20Folder/Images/Air%20Filter%20Shoot%20Out.pdf

David Grima
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WA
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Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 07:08 pm, by: David Grima (Maltezr)

very interesting article Aka...good find mate!
was surprised to see that the cheaper pods flowed and filtered better than the big brand named ones on the list.

Boris Siljanoski
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Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 11:28 pm, by: Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt)

Upto $30 is what a Pod Filter is worth anyway so good to find out it's one of the best.

I wonder how well the factory air filters flow and whether they'd be a restriction for the stock twins?

Aka Abedin
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Friday, June 08, 2012 - 07:03 am, by: Aka Abedin (Soarer_91tt)

thanks David.

I have always used K&N which is average of the pack. Going forward I know where I will be putting my penny down.

Michael Fuhrmann
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nowra
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Friday, June 08, 2012 - 12:40 pm, by: Michael Fuhrmann (Tha_new_dude)

that link has only been posted on this forum around 11ty billion times*

*actual amount may vary

Bernie Simm
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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 08:31 am, by: Bernie Simm (Mayhem78)

I have a K&N panel filter on my blown 1uz,i found alot of oil residue through my intake system. Recently I have discovered that paper element OEM filters have just as good flow(if not better),provided they are replaced regularly. Ill try the 3a racing filter next.
(flame suit on)... This is just my observation and experience.

Wayne Womersley
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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 01:21 pm, by: Wayne Womersley (A49kidx)

Not that I know ANYTHING about this s**t, but I had a look at a few of these pod filters, and my thoughts were, boy, the holes through this filter material are huge compaired to the paper OEM filter. No air flow restrictions here, and no filtering. Yes I should keep my thoughts to myself.

Kurt Atzmuller
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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 03:44 pm, by: Kurt Atzmuller (Kurt)

2 pods are better than one! Larger surface area of the filter's = much better filtration!

Go kurt's twin intakes!

Sebastian Grant
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:59 am, by: Sebastian Grant (Saabg)

Less restriction yes, but two pods, will not filter better than one.

Michael Sinay
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:49 pm, by: Michael Sinay (Mikey)

Perhaps as the amount of sucking force behind the filtration medium is potentially halved, perhaps some particles which would have otherwise been sucked and forced through the filtration medium on a single filter wont have enough pulling force squeezing them through the filters on a twin setup now, meaning less particles coming through...
Just an assumption

Kurt Atzmuller
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 05:14 pm, by: Kurt Atzmuller (Kurt)

Michael's got it. Less vacuum per square inch due to a larger filter surface area.

Sebastian Grant
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 05:42 pm, by: Sebastian Grant (Saabg)

Sounds good in theory but does anyone have any proof? I really think the difference would be negligible at best. A crap pod isn't going to filter well no matter how many of them you use.

Michael Sinay
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 06:37 pm, by: Michael Sinay (Mikey)

Not necessarily, well it depends, say you had 20 air filters all connected, there will be barely any sucking force behind each of them, and therefore I guess it's all dependant on how much sucking for is actually required to force a particle through the filter, or a combination of that and the size of the particle.

Obviously the filters are full of tiny holes to allow air to pass through, so if a particle is slightly larger than these holes it would not be able to pass through. But with a sucking force pulling acting on it, it may be able to squeeze through the smaller hole.

But when the same sized particle doesn't receive enough sucking force, perhaps it will just be caught and not penetrate the filter..

Wayne Womersley
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 07:00 pm, by: Wayne Womersley (A49kidx)

What a bummer, I just replaced my OEM V8 filter a couple of weeks ago, I should have pulled it apart to see what the Total Filter Area actually is.

Sebastian Grant
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:46 pm, by: Sebastian Grant (Saabg)

Perhaps. By that theory though if you are to up the boost you must increase the surface area of your filters to maintain the same level of filtration. Plus if you're punching holes in your filter by increasing the sucking force (boost) your filter would start flowing more when in reality it starts flowing less.

I'm not totally discrediting the theory. I just don't think someone should be advertising this theory without the proof to back it up.

Michael Sinay
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:58 pm, by: Michael Sinay (Mikey)

Yeah mate that's cool I agree proof would be nice, I'm just throwing the possibility out there...

It's not that at high flow you are punching holes in the filter, but particles may be able to force their way through, there could to be an amount of stretch within the filtration material to allow the holes to be penetrated.

Wayne Womersley
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 09:17 pm, by: Wayne Womersley (A49kidx)

For when there is nothing else to do.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_filter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA

Kurt Atzmuller
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 10:14 pm, by: Kurt Atzmuller (Kurt)

I haven't got any proof of this Sebastian, nor do i intend to do any testing.

But by reducing the suction through the material should mean less particles are sucked through into the engine.

It's like turning down the power level on your vacuum cleaner they just don't pick up as much stuff. Not a great comparison i know.

It would have been good to see a standard airbox and filter in that comparison test as well just to see how it compare's with the pods.

Michael Sinay
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Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 02:17 am, by: Michael Sinay (Mikey)

I think that's a good comparison Kurt.

Matthew Sharpe
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Monday, June 18, 2012 - 06:56 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

Pods have been busted again and again and again - they are pure snake oil, the only thing they offer is more intake noise.

Ian Rigby
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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 07:30 pm, by: Ian Rigby (Hiro)

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 06:56 am:
Pods have been busted again and again and again - they are pure snake oil, the only thing they offer is more intake noise.

You could probably argue that the main benefit of the pod comes from it being positioned in an area that receives cold air (ie behind a bumper, inside a ducted airbox etc). I have no issues using a factory panel filter if it isn't a restriction, but it often is though and the easiest way to fix it (and improve power) is to run a custom pipe with a pod on the end.

Matthew Sharpe
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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 07:40 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

Ian Rigby wrote on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 07:30 pm:
You could probably argue that the main benefit of the pod comes from it being positioned in an area that receives cold air (ie behind a bumper, inside a ducted airbox etc). I have no issues using a factory panel filter if it isn't a restriction, but it often is though and the easiest way to fix it (and improve power) is to run a custom pipe with a pod on the end.

The thing is, vehicle manufacturers since the late 80's have spent a lot of effort optimising air intakes - and almost all modern cars (Soarer included) have cold air intakes as part of the factory setup. It's true you can almost always improve flow from the factory setup (BFI etc) but this most likely won't lead to any increase in real power, unless the vehicle has been modified to the point where it is starved for air.

Anyway I've never seen an independent trial done where a pod has shown any real increase in power on the dyno - even with mild tune turbo vehicles.

Ian Rigby
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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 04:56 pm, by: Ian Rigby (Hiro)

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 07:40 am:
The thing is, vehicle manufacturers since the late 80's have spent a lot of effort optimising air intakes - and almost all modern cars (Soarer included) have cold air intakes as part of the factory setup. It's true you can almost always improve flow from the factory setup (BFI etc) but this most likely won't lead to any increase in real power, unless the vehicle has been modified to the point where it is starved for air.

Anyway I've never seen an independent trial done where a pod has shown any real increase in power on the dyno - even with mild tune turbo vehicles.

True, most ones I see pick up behind the headlight which, whilst not ideal, would still be better than 100% engine-bay.

Chris Butler
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Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 06:12 am, by: Chris Butler (Nutta24)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAIxeQUSg-Q&feature=g-all-u

I used a pod filter briefly, sounded cool with the induction noise, but i prefer a standard airbox with maybe a BFI mod

Walter Gillmore
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Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 09:49 am, by: Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa)

BFI 2 mod has worked well for me. the hks 'washable' air filter is horrendous tho! its just foam and brillo pad. no big chunks get through but theres always fine dust on the other side of the filter...

i will be fabricating an airbox to contain two pods (like kurts setup) fronted by a large panel filter from a commonwhore or similar. perspex lib for the whole box. i have twin pods on the silver car, and after pulling them off for inspection, was disgusted to see the amount of fine dust that was inside the intake pipes... let alone what got into the engine..

are there any manufacturers that make an oil soaked filter for cars? pain in the ass to maintain, but after years riding MX bikes, theres hardly anything that gets past the oiled filter

(i know suction from the turbo's might 'pull' some of the oil into the engine)

Ian Rigby
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Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 03:12 pm, by: Ian Rigby (Hiro)

Walter Gillmore wrote on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 09:49 am:
are there any manufacturers that make an oil soaked filter for cars?

K&N air filters (both pod and panel) are oiled

Walter Gillmore
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Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 04:15 pm, by: Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa)

sweet

i thought they only did that for their motorbike range of pods and panels.

Ian Rigby
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Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 05:46 pm, by: Ian Rigby (Hiro)

All K&Ns have been oiled for as long as I can remember - that's the whole point of a K&N. They come pre-oiled, then instead of replacing it as you would a dry paper filter, you pull it out, wash it, and then re-oil it with the "recharge" kit.

Matthew Sharpe
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Friday, June 22, 2012 - 02:27 pm, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

They don't filter very well, and spread oil up the induction system, which can screw your intake sensors up, depending on what kind they are. Again, they are snake oil (literally with the oil) - just stick with OEM - plenty of air and no crap gets through.

Walter Gillmore
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Friday, June 22, 2012 - 04:01 pm, by: Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa)

just as i thought. fine on MX bikes and dirt. but in front of a turbo.. whole different matter. i need to source an oem paper panel that is larger than the stock soarer one.

Wayne Womersley
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Friday, June 22, 2012 - 04:35 pm, by: Wayne Womersley (A49kidx)

Has anyone seen the "You Tube" link above.

Walter Gillmore
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Friday, June 22, 2012 - 06:46 pm, by: Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa)

yes Wayne once i got home from work i watched the mighty car mods link. i posted that comment from my phone during smoko. check the time stamps.

Ian Rigby
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Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 08:32 am, by: Ian Rigby (Hiro)

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 02:27 pm:
They don't filter very well, and spread oil up the induction system, which can screw your intake sensors up, depending on what kind they are. Again, they are snake oil (literally with the oil) - just stick with OEM - plenty of air and no crap gets through

If you're sucking heaps oil into the intake, then you're doing it wrong and putting too much oil onto the filter - when you re-oil them you are only applying a light mist of oil, not drowning the thing. On a MAP-sensored car you've got nothing to worry about as far as damaging or clogging sensors anyway. I've run K&Ns for over 120,000km on the Corolla (both panels and pods) and the Soarer has had one for as long as we've owned it (first a panel which the previous owner had installed, then a pod) and not one issue of oil contaminating the intake or sensors stuffing up, and perfectly acceptable filtration too (note both are MAP-sensored).

Some people are just paranoid I guess, or just naively accept the results of "tests" online which are often skewed towards a particular product (Street Commodores oil test anyone? Anyone?). At the end of the day, yes pod filters on their own are unlikely to contribute massively to power gains, but as can be heard in the MMM video, a lot of the time they are installed either because of asthetics, induction noise, or packaging reasons (for me it was the last two in combination for both the Corolla and Soarer, mainly because they were at the end of a cold air pipe in a place where no panel filter can reasonably fit.)

Walter, it's not going to kill your car. I know dozens of people running K&Ns on all types of cars with almost no ill effects, the only ones that seem to have any kind of issue are ones with MAF sensors too close to the intake that do need to clean the sensor every so often (if you leave it too long then obviously things can go wrong, but the same thing can happen if you don't change your engine oil in 50,000km - service the car properly and it isn't an issue). If K&Ns were as bad as Matt reckons then no-one would be buying them and there would be complaints left right and centre.

Damian Ware
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Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 02:29 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Fine on a map sensor car apart from being illegal.

Don't run one on the 1uz though as even trace amounts of oil will stuff up the AFM.

James Buchan
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Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 02:48 pm, by: James Buchan (Jrbuch)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm also not keen to run a pod on my vvt-i as it's got a Air flow meter (is this correct?) which I'd rather not screw up with having oil getting on it.

That said, I've seen lots of vvt-i's with pods so it can't be all bad.

For what it's worth, I'm just going to do a BFI with the stock panel filter. Works beautifully.

Walter Gillmore
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Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 02:56 pm, by: Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa)

BFI works fine

i just want a larger volume airbox. since my IC pipework goes down a different path to the stock route, i can enlarge the airbox significantly, and have a larger panel filter front on a slight angle. have the cold air also coming in from the stock IC piping route (from where the stock IC used to sit) since there is a hole there already and diversion panels, i want to utilize pretty much the whole area from the front of the strut to the rear of the headlight. twin pods from twin intakes behind the panel and perspex panel lid to keep an eye on the whole thing and cause it looks cool.

Daniel Clarke
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Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 04:34 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

K&n filter for the last 100,000kms on mine , over 50 dyno runs and over 300 1/4 mile passes on my soarer ...

Nothing has been killed or broken , so believe what you want , I have proof they last and don't break •••• !

Jesse Webber
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Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 05:24 pm, by: Jesse Webber (Jessewebber)

As far as K&N Panel filters go, hold it up too the sun, if you can see through it, throw it away, It's not filtering, sure it'll stop big debris, but nothing else.

Nothing wrong with paper element filters, as long as its clean, they work well.

It's not worth putting on a pod filter for the Minimal improvement it gives against the risk of getting your car defected
Only legal way to run them in vic is to have them enclosed, and nobody does that

K&N = Minimal Benefit + Oil can damage sensors + Doesn't Actually filter.

POD = No benefit + Induction Noise + Possible Defect

BFI + Clean Paper Element Filter = best legal intake mod for soarer + induction noise.

Damian Ware
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Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:28 am, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

James Buchan wrote on Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 02:48 pm:
That said, I've seen lots of vvt-i's with pods so it can't be all bad.

Most POD filters are not oiled a non oiled POD is fine.

That being said the VVTI has a different type of AFM to the 1uz and it is less sensitive to oil. I still would not use a oiled filter on the VVTI

Oiled filters are illegal as they can supposedly catch fire in the event of a back fire.

I ran one many years ago before I found out they were illegal. IMO why bother as they are illegal instant defect and there are plenty of non oiled paper filters which are just as good if not better.

Ian Rigby
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Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 02:25 pm, by: Ian Rigby (Hiro)

Legalities are different state-to-state. I do remember Victoria being stupidly anal about it though

Matthew Sharpe
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Monday, June 25, 2012 - 06:55 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

Ian Rigby wrote on Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 08:32 am:
. If K&Ns were as bad as Matt reckons then no-one would be buying them and there would be complaints left right and centre.

They are not "bad" - they do their job acceptably well provided they are looked after properly - I've run them myself in carbied cars - but they are a waste of time and money like so many "performance" mods - unless as you say, you have specific space or aesthetic requirements.