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Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 858
Reg: 10-2007

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Friday, August 24, 2012 - 06:40 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought they'd handle the pressure but maybe not, also there will be a small amount of fluid getting past the piston o-rings, as that's what helps lubricate the o-ring otherwise it'd just be rubber rubbing straight onto the housing.

The valves I'm using are from fire extinguishers which are normally used to inflate them to around a 1000 psi, but then they probably don't get the force of the brake fluid compressing the nitrogen against it.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1200
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, August 24, 2012 - 09:59 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

regarding nitrogen, it is an inert gas,
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 612
Reg: 11-2007

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Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 12:33 am, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Tom Richards wrote on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 09:59 pm:

regarding nitrogen, it is an inert gas,


yes but it is very fine so requires special materials to contain it
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI

Posts: 2037
Reg: 03-2007

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Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 10:38 am, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt , you have got that back to front, normal air will over time leak from a tyre through the rubber, so they put Nitrogen in to stop that, as its thicker.
Tom, if the Nitro is leaking past the seals then it must go into the brake fluid before being vented into the cannister??
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 613
Reg: 11-2007

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Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 05:13 pm, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes dave you are correct there, however they have to treat the tyres with an additive to use nitrogen and to retain it as rubber will let it seep through quicker than air this is why there are specific products to deal with it
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 859
Reg: 10-2007

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Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 10:34 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

can anyone actually tell me how they filled the accumulators from stock then?? honestly i have no idea how they did it unless it was filled from the bleed/vent hole in the screw ontop
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1681
Reg: 08-2005

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Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 06:16 am, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the booster pump isn't running the nitrogen pressure will be the same as the fluid pressure. The nitrogen pressure will be slightly higher than fluid pressure and vice versa as the brakes are applied.
The leakage will be most pronounced where the pressure differential is greatest ie through the threaded body to atmosphere so thread sealant sounds like the fix for that.
I have one accumulator in service that I got o/hauled by Peter Taplin and is fine but the one I made up always leaked in service even though it never showed signs of leakage in a water bath after charging with nitrogen to 1100psi but there again the booster pump will take that pressure much higher.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1202
Reg: 08-2005

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Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 07:59 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

in a container with 1000psi. the screw is loose to allow pressure in then tightened with a robot arm.
It also from memory has a fine thread.
the screw has an o ring on the bottom to get a good seal.

is the accumulator at zero pressure when the fault returns?
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 860
Reg: 10-2007

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Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 08:18 am, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think it's at zero pressure as the pump isn't running constantly, but you can start to hear the steering wheel chirp come back slightly. But the error does eventfully come back every time you press the pedal which is when I know the pressure has leaked.
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 861
Reg: 10-2007

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Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 11:00 am, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upon looking At the scrhader product book

http://www.sunairindustrial.com/catalogs/valves_cores.pdf

most of the. Normal. Valve cores are really on good for around the 200 - 500psi mark. They do how ever have a nitrile (brake fluid handle) high pressure core which will take 4000psi so I might try and track some of those down
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI

Posts: 2038
Reg: 03-2007

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Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 08:49 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the top: Air is 78 percent nitrogen, just under 21 percent oxygen, and the rest is water vapor, CO2 and small concentrations of noble gases such as neon and argon. We can ignore the other gases.

There are several compelling reasons to use pure nitrogen First is that nitrogen is less likely to migrate through rubber than is oxygen, main thing is no water vapor.
Taken from Wiki
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 864
Reg: 10-2007

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Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 06:35 am, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Believe I've found some 4000psi ones from America, just gotta get em to post them from Texas, hopefully they'll do the job
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 616
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 07:38 am, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you cant get them through cooldrive, actrol, airfrig or ashdowns?
Boris Siljanoski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
LS400 + Soarer.

Posts: 1701
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 10:31 am, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Guys,

What actually triggers the limp mode?
In the Celsiors (Soarers may be different), when the Pressure goes low and pump is cycling too much, the Automatic transmission will not kick down and the TRC will limit power a lot, make it drive more like a VK 202.
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 865
Reg: 10-2007

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Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 11:39 am, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Soarer doesn't go into limp mode because of the brakes, not that I've seen anyway.

Thanks for the suggestions Matt, hadn't heard of any of those places so will give them a try, there's a "scrader bellows" place in Sydney that's meant to be getting back to me about some
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 618
Reg: 11-2007

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Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 01:52 pm, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not a problem Shane they were just a few of the places I found when I was working in a business that dealt with AC stuff.
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 866
Reg: 10-2007

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Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 07:28 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah i called a few of them, none of them really had any idea about a shrader valve, and most said they wouldn't have any that go that high. one quoted "we have ones that will go up to 4.1bar" a quick google conversion leave me with 60 psi, a fair ways short of my 1000psi target.

still waiting to hear back from the texas company, who do have them but i'm trying to convince them to sell them in smaller batches then 100. a sydney company was also meant to get back to me but like normal don't call back.

i keep writing these updates incase other people are willing to try what i'm doing and overhauling them selfs and dont run into the same issues
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 869
Reg: 10-2007

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Friday, September 07, 2012 - 11:53 am, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so i found some 2000psi rated valve cores from a mob called "penske" mentioned in this planet soarer artical
http://planetsoarer.com/regas/index.htm and they arrived today, so on monday will install them and re-gas and see what happens.

have to thank bill at penske for all his good service and help.
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 872
Reg: 10-2007

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Monday, September 10, 2012 - 05:18 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so there installed and so far so good. the last set i had in there on of the seals had disintegrated leading me to believe they where not nitrile. here's hoping these proper cores can hold up.
Daniel Marshall
TryHard
QLD
V8 UZZ31 X2

Posts: 205
Reg: 07-2011

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Monday, September 10, 2012 - 07:37 pm, by:  Daniel Marshall (Ydass) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good I hope they work I have 1 that needs doing haha
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 873
Reg: 10-2007

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Wednesday, September 12, 2012 - 07:09 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well so far so good, no leaks in 3 days and brakes working fine. no asian writing or squeeks down the steering wheel. if it's all good next monday i'll write a new thread and start offering this service i think,
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 881
Reg: 10-2007

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Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 07:13 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well after a week and no leaks i'm confident where good to go so i started a thread in brake section and for sale section, thanks for all the help and input guys.

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/83418/365915.html?1347788269

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