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Joseph Reno
Tinkerer
East Sussex
'91, 2.5GT-T-L JZZ30-ACPZZ

Posts: 90
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 05:00 am, by:  Joseph Reno (Gamer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well not a very good day really...

Got the car on the rollers today, had loads of troubles with the car wanting to downshift during a run and also traction issues. She was slipping enough that the tyres were smoking... :cry:

It took at least 8 runs to try and get two figures, she just kept wanting to downshift and the power had to be fed in, once it started to really go (4200 rpm and up)the tyres started loosing traction..

Anyway, this was the best they could extract from her with the problems and such. Keep in mind I am only running 1.2bar boost

I do not know what I am going to do next as I have run out of places that can do it properly unless someone knows of some place else. (that question is directed to the UK guys)

These figures are rwhp and take them with a grain of salt.

Scan:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~shemesh/DynoJet.jpg

Video of car downshifting during run:
http://www.dragon-knights.info/gamer/MOV005.MOD
*Right click, Save as*

Video of slipping rollers:
http://www.dragon-knights.info/gamer/MOV006.MOD
*Right click, Save as*
Joseph Reno
Tinkerer
East Sussex
'91, 2.5GT-T-L JZZ30-ACPZZ

Posts: 91
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 12:41 pm, by:  Joseph Reno (Gamer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks
Simon Triantafillou
TryHard
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 418
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:23 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph, is the car strapped down properly?

I had no trouble at all on a dyno last month pulling 460+ hp without any slippage.
Mind you, my Soarer is manual, and power was able to be brought on without it selecting another gear. Not too sure if this would make the difference.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2928
Reg: 11-2004

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:31 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they don't put enough people in the boot? :-)
Benjamin Burgess
TryHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 169
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:32 pm, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds like there not strapping it down correctly, their rollers are worn out or your tyres are I've witnessed 2wd cars with 500hp not slip on a roller based dyno.
Simon Triantafillou
TryHard
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 419
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:39 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No extra ballast required on any of my runs either... just scrawny little me in the front seat and the dyno operator who was all of 5'5" tall
Luke Nieuwhof
TryHard
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 421
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:54 pm, by:  Luke Nieuwhof (Luke_nieuwhof) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah that is a bit odd, it could be that the downshift is too violent and it breaks traction but that would still be strange.
Benjamin Burgess
TryHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 170
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 02:44 pm, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Simon Triantafillou wrote on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 01:39 pm:




Sounds yavuz at unigroup engineering?
Simon Triantafillou
TryHard
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 420
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 03:18 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heheh, nah... one of the guys at Autosalon.
Joseph Reno
Tinkerer
East Sussex
'91, 2.5GT-T-L JZZ30-ACPZZ

Posts: 92
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 06:42 pm, by:  Joseph Reno (Gamer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not know if this has any bearing on the violent downshifting but I do have an MV Autos stage 1.5 shift kit installed, so that might be part of the downshifting issue.

The car was strapped down pretty good from what I could tell. It did not seem to be moving at all, least not to me.
Joseph Reno
Tinkerer
East Sussex
'91, 2.5GT-T-L JZZ30-ACPZZ

Posts: 93
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 06:44 pm, by:  Joseph Reno (Gamer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the general consensus on running the test in second gear ?

They wanted to do it in second gear but I asked for it to be done in D, with O/D off and PWR switch down. Assuming that that would give me the best results..
Joseph Reno
Tinkerer
East Sussex
'91, 2.5GT-T-L JZZ30-ACPZZ

Posts: 94
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 06:47 pm, by:  Joseph Reno (Gamer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more addition... To give you an idea of the power that they are used to handling at the place I used. On their wall of fame (this is where the high power sheets go for display) the highest power car they have up there is only pushing out 417 rwhp...
Andrew Meiers
TryHard
Victoria
V8, ST

Posts: 265
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 08:18 pm, by:  Andrew Meiers (Acmtt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joesph the car is likley to loose traction in second gear more than in third. Its just a operator issue. Lots of dyno operators here won't/don't do third gear auto dyno runs for fear of kickdown.
Gareth Richards
Tinkerer
Bristol UK
GTT-L twin turbo auto

Posts: 83
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 01:01 am, by:  Gareth Richards (Garethr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe and I have been talking about this on the UK forums.

I was thinking that it should be possible to inhibit the change down from 3rd to 2nd with a switch.

I think that the solenoids work something like this:
Gear 1....Solenoid 1 ON ....Solenoid 2 OFF
Gear 2....Solenoid 1 ON ....Solenoid 2 ON
Gear 3....Solenoid 1 OFF....Solenoid 2 ON
Gear 4....Solenoid 1 OFF....Solenoid 2 OFF

To change from 3rd to 2nd the ECU would switch solenoid 1. So, if you fitted an on/off switch in the wire between the ECU and solenoid 1, then put the 'box in 2 and PWR so that it started in 2nd, then flicked the switch to "OFF", the 'box should change to 3rd, and stay there, regardless of the ECU's instructions. A sort of cheap version of controllers like the Suprastick, just for dyno runs.

Anyone who knows what he's talking about (unlike me :-) ) care to comment?
Gareth Richards
Tinkerer
Bristol UK
GTT-L twin turbo auto

Posts: 84
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 09:03 am, by:  Gareth Richards (Garethr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill Lewis pointed us to the autobox section in the Soarer Bible.

It never occurred to me that the manual shift would work with the solenoids disconnected, and, presumably, no connection to the solenoids, no automatic shift.

A340E(2JZ-GE) Automatic Transmission
MANUAL SHIFTING TEST
1) Disconnect solenoid wire (the illustration shows the plug on the passenger side of a right-hand drive car, just in front of the joint with the tailshaft housing)

2) Inspect Manual Driving Operation
Check that the shift and gear positions correspond with the table below:
Shift Position D Gear Position O/D
Shift Position 2 Gear Position 3rd
Shift Position L Gear Position 1st
Shift Position R Gear Position Reverse
Shift Position P Gear Position Pawl Lock
If the L, 2, and D positions are difficult to distinguish, perform the following road test:
While driving, shift through the L, 2, and D positions. Check that the gear change corresponds to the shift position.

3) Reconnect the solenoid wire.

4) Clear the diagnostic code.
Andrew Meiers
TryHard
Victoria
V8, ST

Posts: 267
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 06:16 pm, by:  Andrew Meiers (Acmtt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So is that simply removing the kickdown cable?
Gareth Richards
Tinkerer
Bristol UK
GTT-L twin turbo auto

Posts: 85
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 13, 2006 - 09:08 pm, by:  Gareth Richards (Garethr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Andrew Meiers wrote on Friday, January 13, 2006 - 06:16 pm:

So is that simply removing the kickdown cable?


No, the electrical connector for the solenoids.
Paul Brockbank
TryHard
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 315
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, January 16, 2006 - 07:52 pm, by:  Paul Brockbank (Brockas) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Strange that it's frying the tyres.

Make sure it's tied down very very tightly, and there is some extra weight in the boost.

I have witnessed my tuner put down 899.0rwhp out of his GT-R (in RWD mode) on a roller type dyno. There is no way yours should have big issues getting the power down.

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