Last x Days Posts  1 | 3 | 7 Days  Search  Topics  Tree View  Help
  Soarer Central * Off-Topic * Global Warming...............Fact or Fear? Previous Previous    Next Next  

Author Message
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have WAY less Soarers than Hayden :-(

Posts: 5092
Reg: 05-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 03:46 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Climate Change - fact or Fiction?

It is an indisputable fact that the earth’s climate is constantly changing. Scientific data shows that the earth’s temperature has been several degrees warmer - and colder - than it is today. What the future holds is difficult to predict in detail, but there will be cooler periods and warmer period, as well as the inevitable floods, droughts and storms. While humans have survived ice ages, there is no doubt that warmer periods are easier.

There are many theories as to why the climate changes, but most agree that solar effects, such as sunspot activity and the Sun’s magnetic fields, are major factors. In that context, the influence of carbon dioxide and other so-called greenhouse gases, is regarded as minor.

Data from Britain’s Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research shows that over the last 100 years, there was an increase in the earth’s temperature of around 0.4 degrees centigrade from 1920 to 1940, from 1940 to 1975 there was a cooling of about 0.2 degrees, and from 1975 to 1998 there was an increase of about 0.5 degrees. This makes a total increase over the whole 20th century of 0.7 degrees.

From 1998 to the present time there has been no evidence of further warming, which makes the recent plunge into the global warming debate of our Prime Minister difficult to comprehend – unless of course it is a calculated strategy to divert attention away from other controversial domestic matters as well as to boost popular support by jumping on the fashionable environmental bandwagon.

Earlier this month, Lord Nigel Lawson, a Member of the House of Lords and the former British Chancellor of the Exchequer, addressed the issue of Climate Change in a lecture to the Centre for Policy Studies entitled “The Economics and Politics of Climate Change: An Appeal to Reason”.

In his speech, Lord Lawson asks whether global warming is actually occurring, if it is, why, and finally what should be done about it?

It is clear from the evidence that some modest warming of the climate (0.7 degrees) has taken place over the last hundred years, but whether it is a man-made as a result of carbon emissions is debatable.

According to Prof. Bob Carter of the James Cook University of Queensland, in his article The Global Warming Emperor Has No Clothes, the first period of warming between 1918 and 1940 took place “well prior to the greatest phase of world industrialisation- and cooling occurred between 1940 and 1965 at precisely the time that human emissions were increasing at their greatest rate”

The cases often cited as evidence of global warming, including extreme weather events such as Hurricane Katrina, the melting of the Greenland ice cap, and rising sea levels, all have alternative explanations: there were worse hurricanes than Katrina back in 1900 well before industrialisation caused increases in greenhouse gas emissions; while the edges of the Greenland ice cap are melting, the centre is thickening; and, although sea levels have been gradually rising with no sign of acceleration, the total increase would be less than a quarter of an inch per century.

The real issue however is, if the climate is changing as the scaremongers are claiming, what should we be doing about it?

The Labour Government’s answer was to be at the front of the queue to sign us up to the Kyoto Protocol, a complex carbon credit trading mechanism which was supposed to force countries to reduce their emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. But many countries have refused to sign up to Kyoto: the USA will not sign because China, India and Brazil have refused, and they have refused because they are not prepared to turn their back on inexpensive carbon-based energy, which has traditionally been used by developing countries to achieve prosperity.

A further flaw in the Kyoto approach is that as the price of carbon-based energy rises in countries that have signed up to the Protocol, energy-intensive industries will seek to relocate to those countries which are not signatories where energy is still cheap. The end result will be a global shift in carbon emissions rather than a reduction.

One of the consequences, of course, of this drive away from plentiful, cheap energy sources like coal, is that nuclear energy suddenly becomes more of an option since wind and solar power are neither reliable nor efficient enough, and with the Green movement blocking the construction of new hydro-generation facilities, there are few options left.

In his speech, Lord Lawson refers to the damage being inflicted by ‘eco-fundamentalists’ who have embraced climate change as a new religion, but in their fervor, care little about the adverse impact of escalating energy costs on economies – and citizens who may well find themselves priced out of energy intensive life enhancing technological advancements.

The question of what we should do if the earth moves into a warmer cycle remains. Surely the sensible answer is to adapt: sell the holiday home on the Gold Coast in favour of one in the Bay of Islands, and start planting coconuts, bananas and pineapples! In other words, take advatage of the situation because it may not last…

In August, the United Press International reported that the Head of Space Research at the Russian Academy of Sciences Astronomical Observatory, is predicting a period of global cooling in coming decades similar to a period known as the ‘Little Ice Age’. During the last Little Ice Age in the 16th century, the Baltic Sea froze so hard that hotels were built on the ice for people crossing the sea in coaches. The Little Ice Age is believed to have contributed to the end of the Norse colony in Greenland, which was founded during an interval of much warmer weather.

These predictions, which are based on the measurement of solar emissions, indicate that the cooling will begin within a few years and reach its peak between 2055 and 2060.

Asked about the Kyoto Protocol and global warming, the scientist Khabibullo Abdusamatov had this to say: "The Kyoto initiatives to save the planet from the greenhouse effect should be put off until better times. The global temperature maximum has been reached on Earth, and Earth's global temperature will decline to a climatic minimum even without the Kyoto protocol."




Dave Hart
DieHard
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 948
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 05:50 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No sign of any global warming this side of the ditch.
All you Aussie guys with car a/c problems are welcome to come over and forget about costly repairs.
Nathan Evans
DieHard
Queensland
1JZZ30 TT

Posts: 651
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 05:52 pm, by:  Nathan Evans (Soarer7) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think i just pasted through the little ice age reading that!

Well thats crazy, makes you think, is the greenhouse effect real or what?
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have WAY less Soarers than Hayden :-(

Posts: 5094
Reg: 05-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 06:15 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What"..........me thinks
Rob Andreacchio
Moderator
Victoria
Supercharged VT Calais & 1991 JZZ30

Posts: 2012
Reg: 01-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 07:26 pm, by:  Rob Andreacchio (Reepa) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Season 2 Episode 8 of My Name Is Earl deals with global warming.. It guest stars Christian Slater. Y'all should check it out!
Shane Ilich
Goo Roo
W.A.
Manual Single T

Posts: 1299
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 07:42 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don - had you seen/were you aware of the "Inconvenient Truth" thread/debate that went on about a month ago? http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/289/100550.html?1158884447

That post is precisely what I was trying to say as to why I have a LOT of disagreement with Al Gore and his current touring moneymaker.

Where did you source that article from? The opening paragraph or two struck me as familiar, but I cannot remember where it was I read it previously.
Steven Anderson
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer UZZ31

Posts: 50
Reg: 05-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 07:43 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

have a look at the al gore moofie 'an inconvenient truth' it addresses this, its got some scary stuff in it
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have WAY less Soarers than Hayden :-(

Posts: 5096
Reg: 05-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 08:06 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shane,
Yes I remember the thread (now) but had forgotten about it when I posted this lot up.

The article was sent to me on Sunday from a "Political" party aquaintance of mine.

I take American "Docu-movies" with a LARGE grain of salt as they tend to have (not very well) hidden agendas, but having said that I'm an open minded sorta guy
Adam Barry
DieHard
WA
UZZ30

Posts: 563
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:50 pm, by:  Adam Barry (Acdchook) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the biggest hurdle to overcome is the common misconception that the environment is supposed to remain static. Global temperatures have been fluctuating, species have been evolving and becoming extinct on this planet for somewhere in the vicinity of 4 billion years. While this should not be taken as a licence to pour out ridiculous volumes of pollutants and annihilate species en masse, it is ridiculous to expect that we should not be having an impact on the planet's ecology. It is simply a fact of nature that more adaptable animals survive to the detriment of those that are less adaptable. As such, nature IS there to serve our needs. It WILL change somewhat in that context. It is arrogant of us to think that we are somehow above the natural laws governing all life on this planet, and that environmental change is solely due to us. Environmental change is a fact of life. Indeed, it is primarily environmental change that has driven evolution throughout this planet's history. We are the first species with the capability to adapt the environment to suit ourselves, rather than adapt ourselves (through evolution) to suit the changing environment. If we seek to halt a change in global environment, are we not thwarting the very mechanism that the natural world is dependant on???
Gareth Richards
TryHard
Bristol UK
GTT-L twin turbo auto / Lexus GS300 SE Mk2

Posts: 183
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:25 pm, by:  Gareth Richards (Garethr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Adam Barry wrote on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:50 pm:

We are the first species with the capability to adapt the environment to suit ourselves, rather than adapt ourselves (through evolution) to suit the changing environment.


Ever since the first of our ancestors used another creature's skin to keep warm, it's been downhill all the way.

Politicians don't help by turning every climate change warning into an excuse for more taxes and/or more invasion of privacy.

Anyway, one supervolcano eruption or a decent sized asteroid, and what we have achieved with pollution will be insignificant.
Shane Ilich
Goo Roo
W.A.
Manual Single T

Posts: 1300
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:06 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Gareth Richards wrote on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:25 pm:

Anyway, one supervolcano eruption or a decent sized asteroid, and what we have achieved with pollution will be insignificant.




Or one loony egomanical dictator with too much money, too easy access to ex-soviet nuclear weapons, and not enough brains...*gances furtively in the general Korean direction*
Mike Bradberry
TryHard
Queensland
V8 Limited

Posts: 378
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 03:47 pm, by:  Mike Bradberry (Halflife) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As such, nature IS there to serve our needs.

Not fussed on that one, however I believe most of what has been stated above, which means I am open to nearly every suggestion as I have no definitive way of refuting any of it.I would like to add that 'nature' includes all that humans do. Whether it is construed as positive or negative is somewhat irrelevant as that also fits in with 'natural'.
Yes of course these things have occurred in the past but one thing seems to point to humans being somewhat responsible, and that is the accelerated occurrence of ice melts etc.
Steven Anderson
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer UZZ31

Posts: 52
Reg: 05-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:20 pm, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)




yeah... its just a cycle....






(CO2 in the red over the past 650,000 years and temperature corresponding)






but dont worry, its better to be safe than sorry... whoops, they up that bit too.
Ben Daniel
DieHard
WA
Twin Turbo

Posts: 654
Reg: 03-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:21 pm, by:  Ben Daniel (Lexustt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In regards to peoples apprehension towards the idea the planet is having climate shifts and myths to global warming, I just have the 1 question... apart from the other day, when was the last time it snowed in Queensland during november ?
Steven Anderson
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer UZZ31

Posts: 53
Reg: 05-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 08:51 am, by:  Steven Anderson (Cusscuss) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just one more

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change
"That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords "climate change" (9).

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position."
Geoff Smith
Tinkerer
warwickshire
soarer v8

Posts: 12
Reg: 11-2006

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, November 24, 2006 - 02:54 am, by:  Geoff Smith (Geoffu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's all get v8's, stick an extra v8 in the boot AND GO FOR IT!!!!!
We want the UK a bit warmer.

Add Your Message Here
Eye Candy
Click for full size
Bold text Italics Underline Center Text Upload photo from your hard drive Make a List Make a Table Make an Image Thumbnail Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image Formatting Help
         

Username: Important Posting Information:
If asking a question, have you done a search to see if your question has already been answered?
Be aware that the use of SMS-speak eg "u" instead of "you" etc, will get your post deleted.
Password:
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message

  Administration Administration      Log Out Log Out Previous Previous      Next Next