Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:14 am, by: Miles Baker(Milesb)
Wow.. 4 days and no posts about it. Every time a natural (or otherwise) disaster has happened over the last few years I have been on the ALSC, within hours there was an "our hearts go out to the victims" post.
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:46 am, by: Steve Patterson(Violent_rumble)
Yeah, gun and balaclava sales are up Seriously though, I feel sorry for the people... And sorry for Australia, giving money to a SuperPower Nation that spends more on its military than we do on our entire annual budget. As if America needs aid
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 04:50 pm, by: Peter Burrett(Burrett)
I think that one reason may be that whilst we feel "shock horror" at the predicament of those poor people (and I mean poor), there is a Republican (aka right wing) administration which makes John Howard look like a bleeding heart.
I notice, and I'm sure you all do, that the predominant skin colour of those dying is brown to black.
I am absolutely certain that if such a catastrophe occurred in a WASP state, the victims would not be able to move for assistance, National Guards, Army, Navy, Marines and whatever....
I have enormous sympathy for those who are in the s**t (silt), but I find it difficult in my heart to extend any measure of support to the federal maladministration.... they happily inflict this sort of chaos and anarchy on other nation states.... guess you know I vote Liberal
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 05:28 pm, by: Jeff Hogan(Hoges)
we arent seriously giving them aid are we??? i feel the same as you peter, while it is a terrible thing that has happened its kind of hard to feel sorry for them when you think that new orleans now probably resembles downtown baghdad. maybe they will declare war on all hurricanes now, and send up planes to bomb the clouds....???
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 05:38 pm, by: Miles Baker(Milesb)
Remember though that the US government last year gave $US19 billion in aid (more than double second place Japan), and the American people gave another $US34 billion.
People are dying, they need aid. Hundreds of thousands of homes, businesses, jobs, lives - all ruined. They need aid too. Hard to feel sorry for them? I feel sorry for anyone who has that happen to them, no matter where they are. I think if you can look at the pictures of what is going on and say you don't feel sorry for those people, you've got some sh!t wrong with you.
If this happened here, would you expect Americans to say "they don't need aid, screw em". Yeah that would be racist wouldn't it.
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 06:34 pm, by: Ollie Ernst(Oli_g)
Have to agree with you Miles. As someone who was in Darwin when Cyclone Tracy went through the place and lost everything to either the Cyclone or looters I can honestly say that without having been in a similar situation you people have no idea what these people are going through.
And as Miles says, if it happened here you'd all be whinging if the USA gave no aid. Yes I understand they're spending a billion dollars a day on keeping troops in Iraq, and no, I don't agree with their foreign policy, but it doesn't mean the world shouldn't help people in need. After all, a donation to the Red Cross or Sally Army doesn't put another soldier in Iraq.
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 07:54 pm, by: Ollie Ernst(Oli_g)
You're right Neil. I've been watching a lot of the US News networks' coverage on Foxtel. If you haven't seen much of the coverage you don't have any idea of the scale of the thing. Like I said, we were in Darwin during and after Tracy and while the whole damn place was trashed, compared to what New Orleans is going through, we got off lightly.
The thing I can't get my head around is that they're talking about rebuilding the city. Given it's already been proven now that building a city between the ocean and a major lake and building it below the natural water level of both isn't a good idea, how clever would it be to repeat the mistake? After all, the area is prone to regular hurricanes. Can't work out the logic there.
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 07:58 pm, by: Jeff Harper(Jeffh)
Aid is good, it's our way of saying we care, and we should care too.
In a more enlightened time the administration would realise that if they had gun control, like here, their Aid choppers might not get fired upon and looters would only find money and property in houses, not sub-machine guns and hand guns!
But it's the USA and it will take another civil war before they realise.
Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:30 pm, by: Stephen Hille(9zero)
I cant believe some people are bagging the states over this, don't need aid that is bollocks. What do you people think should happen - would you not ask for aid if you lost your house, your car, your job, your place of employment. That's the thing I have learned about a lot of Australians - if something hasnt happened to them in the past 2 weeks they just dont care.
Yes what a lot of you saying about the people in New Orleans is true - it is one of the most dangerous cities in the states and I'm pretty certain it was the murder capital of the states for a while, while I dont condone by any stretch of the imagination whats happening - people need to remember things like this:
Psych patients arent getting their meds Diabetics arent getting their insulin People are in complete crisis after having lost EVERYTHING People have dead relatives People dont have SIMPLE THINGS - like a shower, a toilet, a bed, somewhere to eat
Now I call this an extraordinary situation, and extraordinary situations call for people to take extraordinary measures, they also become irrational and irrational people are dangerous. I know that these things vastly affect the way people behave and I suggest no one challenge me on this as I am a person that does know about such things. All this adds up to making people crazy - also its plain and simple, a large part of the people over there ARE crazy.
Anyone that can honestly say dont send aid to people in need really need to think things through - I will end with the most powerful saying I have ever heard.
"Treat other people as you would want to be treated yourself"
Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:38 am, by: Steve Patterson(Violent_rumble)
Don't get me wrong, I think it's very sad and appalling what is happing over there. But what will Australia's donation do for an already filthy rich nation? Buy everyone cheeseburgers? What these people needed was action and they didn't get it. It took a week for America to come to the aid of their own people? It wasn't until old Johnny Howard said "We'll donate ten million" that George even considered pulling his finger out. I feel very sorry the people, surround by a nation full of resources that aren't being utilised. Sounds like torture to me.
Also, there is a substantial percentage of the population living in utter poverty. I'm not going to get into a debate on here about exactly what has led to these situations but don't judge the wealth of the US by the likes of Bill Gates and his mates.
I'm sorry mate but in this case you have no idea what you're on about.
As for the money "buying cheeseburgers" John Howard announced that the money is going directly to the Red Cross. They buy blankets, clothing and essential items mate, not cheeseburgers.
The 10 million dollars Australia's donated equates to 50c per Australian. Are you telling me you can't part with 50c to help these people?
As for US resources not being used effectively, I totally agree that it's taken longer to get essential items and help to people in need but from what I've seen so far that's due to poor organisation and coordination due both to the scale of the disaster and lack of access due to the flood waters. It also appears no effective disaster plan was in place, capable of dealing with such a huge calamity. If you think it's just the yanks that can't get their act together, think again. After Cyclone Tracy it took 5 days to get my mother and I out of Darwin and we weren't the last to be evacuated by a long shot. We also had the few belongings we were able to salvage stolen out of the back of our car by looters while we reporting in at the local High School so we could be accounted for. Don't anybody give me any of this "it only happens in the US" because it's simply bullshit! I've experienced it here first hand. Stephen Hille was spot on when he said it's the situation people are in that drives them to carry out these acts. Yes, they're people who are prone to these acts anyway but it can and will happen ANYWHERE.
Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 09:59 am, by: Miles Baker(Milesb)
Yes it took the US government WAY too long to get their own resources in there. Yes that is wrong. I haven't even got the slightest idea why it has taken that long.
The US is filthy rich?? Parts are, but parts like New Orleans have vast sections of dirt poor people. There are way more homeless in most American cities than we have here. I'm not saying that's right either - it's not. America's public health care system is worse than ours.
Neither of those are good reasons not to help people who are hurting.
And like Ollie said, if you think Australians would be civil and polite to each other, think again. People are people and a proportion behave the same filthy way in the same situation, no matter where you are.
Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:16 am, by: Jeff Harper(Jeffh)
I feel safer with carzy Australian then USA people, because few aussies are armed.
If our area, and I admit we live in a very high socio economic area, got wiped out we would have looters and pillagers in our community, guaranteed. Going over the edge is not class distinctive.
Ever wondered why so many trailer (caravan) parks get wiped out in the USA when a hurricane or tornado or earthquake hits?
1/ They have a lot of them.
2/ LOTS of people live in them. A huge proportion of the population lives there.
Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:19 am, by: Kylie Patterson(Girlylex)
I know it must sound pretty heartless BUT between the US Government's US$21 billion and the insurance companies expected $400 odd billion cost of rebuilding of New Orleans- I think they can do this one on their own. Australia's token $10 million is just that- a token, if Johnny thought they needed more he would have given more. Now that resources have been mobilised in the right areas, the relief and relocation process will help the people.
Ollie, I think our people and our Government learned a lot from Darwin's disaster, we are a flood and cyclone prone country- we are prepared. We see this all the time and we rescue our people and rebuild. The most ironic thing is that they are seriously considering rebuilding in the same place! Idiots! As for their economy, if they'd stop spending so much on weapons and war they would be able to strengthen and save their bottom line. This is an atypical war that cannot be won and no-one is expecting the usual economical boom afterwards, waste of money really...
If we were talking about a poorer country that lacked emergency services or likelyhood of government assistance, different story altogether but in this case there is a working town 10 miles away and New Orleans is in the United States ffs they have the resources to look after themselves. Actually, it may help them boost the economy with most of the rebuilding at the cost of the insurance companies, it'll give people jobs and business will flourish.
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