Soarer Central: Earth Hour

Soarer Central Off-Topic Earth Hour

Thread	Last Poster	Posts	Pages
Archive through March 09, 2007	Joseph D'Agostino	25	1
Archive through March 09, 2007	Miles Baker	25	1
Archive through March 12, 2007	Luke Barnes	24	1
Archive through March 15, 2007	Miles Baker	23	1
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Adam Peterson
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:02 am, by: Adam Peterson (President)

yes its me .. lol

Miles Baker
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 12:49 pm, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

Yes.. the idea is flawed because of those oh-so-common 2000km trips we all take, and drive in one shot without resting. Silly me.

The main problem with the current electric cars is... energy storage! Which is exactly what I am saying needs to be improved. The people who drove the GM EV1 loved it, and were sad to see it go. Chevrolet is looking like producing the Volt - a hybrid that you can recharge by plugging into the wall, and has enough storage to do all of you daily commutes without fuel. The evolution will be the fuel cell with recyclable hydrogen produced at home.

OH THNAP!

Miles Baker
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 05:08 pm, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

Can you actually read? Do they not teach reading in WA?

Batteries suck. Where did I say use batteries? I have been saying we need a REPLACEMENT for batteries. The required replacement, and the solution to the clean transportation fuel problem is a more portable friendly way of hydrogen storage than compression. This is what I am saying, and as usual you carry on with your own thought process. Batteries don't store enough energy, wear out, and are made of nasty stuff. That is why battery cars have not taken off. That is one reason why solar in the home has not taken off - no convenient clean way of storing energy. This is what I am saying we need to work on.

100km per day is still more than enough for most people, but I am suggesting we invest in looking for a way to store 200-300km worth of hydrogen in a user friendly state. Refueling would be a matter of either exchanging the "waste" (pure water) for new hydrogen at your *HOME* refilling station (where you are splitting water into H2 and O2 using a solar array on your roof and a fuel cell), or plugging your car into a wall socket, and the fuel cell in the car reverses the pure water into H2 and O2 (if you are away from home or don't have a home solar array).

The idea is not to cater for every last person who drives to the country or other nonstandard stuff. That's less than 1% of the market, and is therefore not a design consideration. The idea is mass uptake.

And as for the "but youd have to refit all the petrol stations! oh no!!" argument, what has happened with LPG? Used to be you couldn't get it anywhere. Now almost every servo has had a huge gas cylinder installed, and what percentage of cars even use it? If hydrogen can be sequestered in a room temperature liquid or in some kind of microsphere quasi-liquid, why wouldn't servos be able to refit for it?

All we need is the friendly hydrogen storage. The electric motors and control systems for vehicles have already been developed (prius), as have reversible fuel cells. It also instantly makes home solar generation and energy storage feasible with the addition of the new range of low cost solar cells. This CAN reduce our baseload coal/nuclear generation requirements. Conventional solar/wind generation without storage cannot.

Miles Baker
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 06:14 pm, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

My original point was that we need transportable hydrogen. Read it. Right back at the start. You opposed electric cars, saying they have a pathetic range because of batteries. If you had bothered to actually read, you'd have never even made that comment, seeing as my original post was about replacing batteries. This makes your point, that electric cars have crap range because of batteries, completely redundant. Now you've actually arrived at the point that we need a replacement for batteries, which I suggested right back at the start. So finally you have almost caught up.

Daniel Czechowski wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 06:00 pm:
hy can't we just buy a charged up fuel cell somewhere out the in the outback and be on your way straight away. That is THE IDEA!

Do you even have any idea what a fuel cell is? Perhaps this is why you are making nonsense backwards arguments about batteries. Go read up on the reversible hydrogen-oxygen fuel cell. A fuel cell is not a fuel container, nor can it be "charged up". It is a very expensive, non-removeable device for efficiently converting (in this case) hydrogen and oxygen to water, with electricity as an output. It is reversible, so that with electricity and water as an input, it outputs hydrogen and oxygen. You can plug the car into the wall, using coal generated electricity to refuel, you can remove the water and add fresh hydrogen from a filling station, or you can have your own filling station at home, using solar plus another fuel cell to make hydrogen.

The greater benefit is that the hydrogen store at home can be used to generate power for your house using the fuel cell and an inverter. This replaces the need for your house to use baseload generation. I'm not sure how many times I'll need to describe this before you'll understand, but the only missing ingredient is safe efficient storage of hydrogen, to reduce our dependence on coal. The ability to run your car off it would be a bonus, but 60% of our emissions are from electricity generation. The removal of your petrol bill would just be an economic bonus to pay the system off faster.

So, do you understand yet how all we need to drastically reduce pollution is better hydrogen storage? This was my initial point. Put money into developing better H2 storage. That is the last piece of missing technology that we need to start really cutting our emissions. The rest is just marketing.

Peter Nitschke
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 06:24 pm, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

Daniel Czechowski wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 06:00 pm:
Why can't we just buy a charged up fuel cell somewhere out the in the outback and be on your way straight away.

Why can't LPG users just buy a charged up LPG tank somewhere in the outback and be on your way straight away?

Peter Nitschke
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 07:15 pm, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

Daniel, one of the problems seems to be the gap between what you think you say and what you actually say.

Peter Nitschke
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 07:21 pm, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

There is a HUGE difference between buying a charged up tank and filling your tank.

One involves sticking a nozzle into a socket and holding the trigger for a while, the other involves emptying the boot, somehow releasing and capturing any pressure in the lines, disconnecting the tank from the filler, disconnecting the tank from the fuel line to the engine, unbolting various fixings, lifting the tank out, then installing a much heavier already full tank with all the added risks involved because it is full.

I would like to point out that they are not the same thing.

Likewise most likely with fuel cells etc.

David Vaughan
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:22 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

Bugger! I tried to vote for your prior post but you split them into two and I have voted for the second. No disrespect at all to your following post, Peter, but I meant to vote for this:

quote:
Daniel, one of the problems seems to be the gap between what you think you say and what you actually say

David Vaughan
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 08:28 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

If I may put it another way, Daniel, you appear to me to be more argumentative than effective. Please think about that rather than jumping to reply, because I do not plan to respond on list anyway.

cheers
David

Aaron Mead
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 09:51 pm, by: Aaron Mead (Aaron)

Miles vs Daniel.........continues.......

Ben Daniel
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:09 pm, by: Ben Daniel (Lexustt)

I see a few of Daniels posts have been deleted.

Aaron Mead
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 08:04 am, by: Aaron Mead (Aaron)

The Hand of Peter, strikes again.....haha

Peter Nitschke
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 08:41 am, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

Nope, I had no hand in it. Self-immolation.

Miles Baker
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 08:41 am, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

Aaron Mead wrote on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 09:51 pm:
Miles vs Daniel.........continues.......

No, anyone who jumps into a conversation and spouts garbage will get corrected.

A fuel cell contains no fuel. A fuel cell is a catalyst reactor that fuel (in this case H2 and O2) is fed into, and electricity is extracted from. This is the knowledge that is required before entering this conversation. Daniel didn't seem to have that, but kept on arguing at me anyway. Perhaps my above post filled him in on his errors and he realised what a fool he looked. I suspect he has deleted those posts and will now attempt to write something more intelligent, and pretend he never said the earlier stuff.

Daniel Czechowski
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Western Australia
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:17 am, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

My last post in this thread.

I asked Peter to delete all my posts on this thread. (Leave this one though).

I decided to have nothing to do with this thread, not worth the energy, just can't be bothered. Don't know if any of you have managed to read my last two posts (I deleted them soon after, check your emails and you'll see what I'm referring to) but you'll realise that Miles isn't exactly playing fair here. He changes his prior posts quite significantly to suit his current argument, where I originally replied to them, and then he says he has never said anything like that and that I "cannot read". This is absolute bullsh|t, and I'm not going to put up with a d|ckhead arguing with me on the net, especially in an unfair way like that. I neither want to be insulted, nor portrayed like a moron by him or anyone else on the forum. Everything I wrote was in reply to his posts which was relevant at the time of posting. He has subsequently changed it, and then says I'm not 'intelligent' coz I am referring to something he has never said. No thank you, I want nothing to do with that. I can have intelligent and proper debates with other people that play fair on the forum and don't change their prior posts to suit their argument at the time. I will not put up with his constant crap and insults, I find it annoying and I have better things to do with my time then arguing over pointless crap. The "garbage" I have supposedly "spouted" only ended up looking like garbage coz of your bullsh|t editing Miles, nothing more. Fark that! Go on your own ego trip, I want no part in it.

For a 29 year old, Miles I would have thought you'd have more maturity than that, however you obviously like to be a keyboard warrior, supposedly 'winning' arguments on the net. If that makes you feel better than fine, be happy, wow, you achieved something. Great! Dude, if I didn't have a life I would have also gone off and edited my prior posts exactly the same way like you have to suit me and my quest to win. However I do have a life, and I'm not gonna waste it on your crap.

How come is it possible to have an intelligent and normal conversation without any personal name calling and stuff coming from them, with everybody else on the forum but you Miles? You still haven't got over that gay debate we had over a month ago?

Case closed.

Miles Baker
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:29 am, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

I have not edited any of my posts more than a couple of seconds after I post them, and then only to make a minor grammar or spelling adjustment. I have never changed the point, purpose or facts. I would suggest that the problem is you don't read them properly the first time, then later you come back and figure out what I was actually saying. And I'm 28.

Daniel Czechowski wrote on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:17 am:
How come is it possible to have an intelligent and normal conversation without any personal name calling and stuff coming from them, with everybody else on the forum but you Miles?

I seem to recall that in the last debate, you were the one who sprayed me with a constant stream of personal attacks, to the point that you got suspended for it. I did not engage in argumentum ad personam, so I was not suspended. Now who's claiming something never happened?

Leon Wright
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:52 am, by: Leon Wright (Techman)

Come on fellers give it a rest, first it was kinda dumb, then funny, now it's just old. Take your lover's tiff elsewhere, cause I'm sure I'm not the only one that is over it.

Flame me if you like, I don't mind, It's the internet, I couldn't give fat razoo. Honestly it's a little (read, A LOT) childish.

Daniel Czechowski
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:57 am, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

As it is now:

Miles Baker wrote on Friday, March 14, 2007 - 11:20 pm:
Oh ffs give
up. There are people who won't get "bought by some rich oil sheik".
Refuelling stations? Read what I wrote. Home generation is the initial
way. Refuelling stations will follow. It's a gradual process. Learn
about reversible fuel cells, you can "refuel" from a power outlet.
This has already been done, there are plenty of people in the US
driving around with electric cars. Cars aren't the major focus anyway.
Oil only contributes about 20% of our CO2 emissions. Upwards of 65% is
your lovely employer's filthy coal burning. Home generation, storage
and regeneration can cut that down with no infrastructure outside your
own home. Now what "oil sheik" would not want to get in on eating your
revenue stream?

And the arabs are not the evil of the oil world. Quit playing into
that xenophobic stereotype. It's the oil companies. Big difference.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/22/pf/college/richest_endowment_funds/index.htm

The original post:

Miles Baker wrote on Friday, March 14, 2007 - 11:20 pm:
Oh ffs give
up. There are people who won't get "bought by some rich
oil sheik". Refuelling stations? Read what I wrote. Home generation is
the initial way. Refuelling stations will follow. It's a gradual
process. Learn about reversible fuel cells, you can "refuel" from a
power outlet. This has already been done, there are plenty of people
in the US driving around with electric cars.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/22/pf/college/richest_endowment_funds/index.htm

I have posted my reply to what I read, which is the original post. As you can see, it changed significantly, and is not a minor or a grammar or spelling adjustment. And you WERE talking about electric cars. There, I just proved your bullsh|t lie again.

Miles Baker wrote on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:29 am:
I did not engage in argumentum ad personam, so I was not suspended.

Oh yes you did and everyone knows it (they can read it to you know), but since you were defending gays, Peter did not suspend you. Obviously this forum is meant to be gay friendly, fair enough, if you were blind to the facts I posted. Had it been the other way around you'd be the one suspended. Simple. So get off your high horse!

I don't have any interest or reason in debating this anymore, and I could post more proof to your editing and significant changes to your posts, but I don't want to waste my time, so leave it at that and do us all a favour and stay quiet. All you can regurgitate is bullsh|t.

Daniel Czechowski
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:00 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Leon Wright wrote on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:52 am:
Come on fellers give it a rest, first it was kinda dumb, then funny, now it's just old. Take your lover's tiff elsewhere, cause I'm sure I'm not the only one that is over it.

Flame me if you like, I don't mind, It's the internet, I couldn't give fat razoo. Honestly it's a little (read, A LOT) childish.

I did and I am over it, I deleted all my posts last night, yet this morning Peter sends me an email saying that I apparently "actually re-ignited the thread a little by deleting stuff". Obviously someone really doesn't know when to let go do they.

Now listen to Leon and be quiet Miles. Someone lock this thread.

Justin Cook
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 01:30 pm, by: Justin Cook (Justin)

Hence why the earth and all of us are doomed. Nobody can ever agree on how to save it...

Oh woah is us.

Miles Baker
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 01:48 pm, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

You hadn't replied before I edited that, and as you can see I just added some info that does not change the rest, points or facts. Your downfall was your lack of understanding what a fuel cell is. My edit was immediate and meant to steer the conversation back towards the initial topic instead of back on your rant about cars. The initial topic is about baseload generation, not transportation pollution.

Guess that wasn't your last post then.... and I haven't deleted anything I've said out of embarrassment that I'm wrong. Because... I'm not.

Gay friendly board? Yeah I hope this board is friendly to all people. I guess you'd rather have a bigoted hate filled environment? Go somewhere else.

Brenton Trafford
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 01:58 pm, by: Brenton Trafford (Traff)

I'm sorry I started this thread. I think I'll just keep my hippie views to myself now. I'm off, gotta go hug a tree.....

Brenton Trafford
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 01:59 pm, by: Brenton Trafford (Traff)

Also, Pete, feel free to delete/lock this thread.

Miles Baker
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Friday, March 16, 2007 - 02:03 pm, by: Miles Baker (Milesb)

Heh. There's nothing wrong with discussion. As long as one of us doesn't just change the whole thing into "youre a fag!!" what is the problem?