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Peter Nitschke
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Posts: 1352
Reg: 11-2004

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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:26 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What bothers me a bit, is that after 9/11 and with days of warning, the US aren't coping with this disaster at all well.

Tracy was a big first to us, we had no real warning and no prior experiences with major disasters to learn from. Hopefully things would be very different now.
Peter Nitschke
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:29 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kylie, one point, the Australian $10 million would be available to the Red Cross etc right now. Not in a few months when the insurance companies can get the paper work mess sorted out.

That is a heck of a lot of blankets, tents etc that can be utilised right away, so I don't think it is insignificant at all. :-)
Don Bagnall
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:32 am, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If any of you are interested, and I suspect you are, I suggest that for a bit of background information on cause and effect, you beg, borrow or steal the October 2004 edition of the National Geographic magazine.
Look in the index for the article called "The Big Uneasy"............read, and be enlightened.

OR, go to this link for the online article.

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html
Kylie Patterson
TryHard
31 V8 Limited

Posts: 68
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:10 am, by:  Kylie Patterson (Girlylex) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that Don, some interesting reading. It's a shame that in this case forewarned is not fore-armed. Now THAT would only happen in AmericaUpload
Ollie Ernst
TryHard
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Posts: 132
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:16 am, by:  Ollie Ernst (Oli_g) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I simply can't believe some of the I've read here. Imagine yourselves in a similar situation as the people on the ground, and think how you'd react if you read this .

I don't dare say anything more because if I do I'm going to seriously offend people.

Pen........Please delete my account. I'm through here.
Ollie Ernst
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:33 am, by:  Ollie Ernst (Oli_g) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One last thing before I go. Kylie, Australia was in on the invasion of Iraq and like it or not Johnny Howard and the rest of the government represent us all (you included). Next time WE need help, if it doesn't come, by your own logic, you'll have absolutely no right to whinge. Because we are all as responsible for what happened there, and in Afghanistan etc as the average resident of Louisianna. If anything, even more so, because chances are THEY not only didn't vote for Bush, they probably didn't vote at all. Think about it.
Graham Dollisson
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Posts: 171
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:51 am, by:  Graham Dollisson (Alloyvee) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't go Ollie. I understand where you are coming from. My family lost just about everything in Tracy as well but we were lucky enough to fly to Brisbane on the 23rd Dec for holidays. Lucky for us considering what the house looked like afterwards.
Steve Patterson
TryHard
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Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:00 pm, by:  Steve Patterson (Violent_rumble) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems we are allowed to have an opinion, just as long as it doesn't conflict with you Ollie. This isn't about cyclone Tracy, this is about New Orleans and a crappy government.
and Happy Fathers Day
Emanuel Spinola
Moderator
JZZ30

Posts: 321
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:05 pm, by:  Emanuel Spinola (Manny) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nowadays everyone's a
f@cken expert on everything it seems!

A seriously f@cked up society we live in based on some of the ill informed opinions aired callously on here.... just a sign of the continuing decay of mankind imho.

Our thoughts are with those directly affected by this tragedy
Ollie Ernst
TryHard
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:08 pm, by:  Ollie Ernst (Oli_g) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can have whatever opinion you like Steve. Quite frankly, I don't give a anymore. I just see the situation through the eyes of those who are directly affected. Not someone sitting in the comfort of their loungeroom.

I just hope for you guys you're never in the same situation. You might see things differently then.
Kylie Patterson
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:14 pm, by:  Kylie Patterson (Girlylex) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't go Ols, there's only one thing that brings us all together as a Club and that is our love for our cars... on almost every other topic we are bound to have differing opinions of which everyone is entitled to. No need to give up all the friends we have all made over a few anti-US comments. There's no doubt about our sense of humanity and willingness to assist those who cannot help themselves however this isn't the case at all- the US people are saying the same negative comments about their own gov. Agree to disagree perhaps? Upload
Ollie Ernst
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:24 pm, by:  Ollie Ernst (Oli_g) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's OK Kyles. It's nothing personal. Just something I feel strongly about because I've been there. You guys are entitled to your opinions, and yes, agree to disagree. My decision to leave has been coming for a while. I enjoyed the forum and the club and I'll probably come along to the odd cruise but overall I've become a bit jaded with the whole thing, for various reasons. Anyway, you guys have a nice father's day and we'll probably catch up at the Summernats.
Benny Gammelmark
TryHard
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Posts: 518
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:28 pm, by:  Benny Gammelmark (Oldfield) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would think it was a mistake to leave the forum Ollie. We need all the opinions we can get - and good arguments as well.

I'm NOT going to discuss my views, only give them. It may seem heartless BUT:

My view on the earth is that there are too many people on it. If I die in a disaster so be it. The earth will be better for it but until then I'm going to enjoy myself.

The disaster in US is really bad and I feel sorry for the people BUT: I also feel sorry for people starving in the 3'rd world EVERY DAY.

There's a reason for everything:
The reason for starving people in the 3'rd world is that there's too many of them.
The reason for the New Orleans disaster is that there are too many people that have build houses in a place where there shouldn't be any.

I know this will upset some people but it IS my view and until I can be proven wrong I'll stick to them.

I still fee sorry for them.
Stephen Hille
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 01:10 pm, by:  Stephen Hille (9zero) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulations Steve, you have just bought the war in Iraq up regarding something that has EXACTLY nothing to do with the war in Iraq - if you can honestly find a connection somewhere then please enlighten us, otherwise go and post your left wing idealistic views on an anti bush site or something. I cannot believe that you said that you think the US people are being tortured by their government - that is a completely pathetic thing to say and I'm not even going to reply to that.

Yes the US does spend a lot, but as someone else here said they are in huge debt and NO is a very poor place.

As for America taking a week to deliver help you are incorrect, it was about 3 days which I do agree is appaling and it should have been much quicker.

Another thing to remember is that people can't just be rescued there are only so many escape routes, buses, helicopters - remember the US has about 10 times the population of Australia so rescue efforts are going to be far more time consuming.

Maybe we should send some of you loungeroom experts to go and sort it all out - then the world would be a wonderful place, dont you think?
Ollie Ernst
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 01:25 pm, by:  Ollie Ernst (Oli_g) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing I didn't elaborate on, and no doubt there are others here, like Stephen, who have emergency services experience and are far better qualified to fill in the blanks, is that many of the armchair critics have no idea what's involved logistically in getting tens of thousands of people into an area like this to rescue those who need it. Don't forget this is bigger than just New Orleans. This storm devastated 160 miles of coastland and numerous towns and cities. Think about what it takes to get relief in at short notice. Having spent time in the RAAF and been on a couple of exercises I've seen what it takes to get a couple of hundred people organised and supplied for only a week in the scrub but I can't even begin to imagine something on this scale.

Not only food, water, fuel, clothing and medical supplies for those affected but also to sustain the rescuers. Not to mention sanitation needs, accommodation etc. No doubt help should have come faster than it did but to try to make a serious dent in the situation in 3 days or less would have been a miraculous effort. No point getting 200 choppers into the area if you don't have fuel to keep them airborne or food and water for the pilots, let alone maintenance teams. Remember that ALL fuel production in the area has been knocked out, and without fuel, nothing moves. There's more involved than most people realise.
Graham Dollisson
TryHard
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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 01:42 pm, by:  Graham Dollisson (Alloyvee) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A quick google search gave me a population of New Orleans at near 500 000 and the Greater New Orleans Area(New Orleans and surrounding areas)of over 1.3 million. How on earth could you help that many people quickly. The area affected could be bigger.
Dragan Vidic
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soarer tt

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Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 05:40 pm, by:  Dragan Vidic (Soarer_ttt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i read in the paper a few days ago that only $7m out of the $1billion+ we gave to indonesia has actually been given to them and used up....i wonder how long till and how much these people are gonna get out of the $10m
Joe Fisicaro
Tinkerer
TT

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Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, September 05, 2005 - 01:37 am, by:  Joe Fisicaro (Kingpin) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upload
Troy Tappenden
TryHard
WA
JZZ30 (TT)

Posts: 138
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:40 pm, by:  Troy Tappenden (Moredhel) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree with Ollie and Stephen Hille. There is so much that the public doesn't know about, and everyone is an expert.

Do you honestly think that they could have evacuated 1.3 million people in the few days they had, when they can't use any road? They can't land a plane anywhere, everything is helicopter and small boat evacuations. This takes time, money and resources, but the biggest one is the the time.

As far as the whole money situation goes, think of it like this. You have a mate, and their family is stinking rich (Even though, as you all mentioned, America is not rich in all areas, especially New Orleans). Now, something goes wrong, he loses his money, his car, his house, everything, and his parents aren't contactable because they are on a holiday somewhere with no phone capabilities. Would you give your mate some money to get himself organised again until his parent get back? Or would you tell him you are rich, your parents will take care of it, you can live on the streets for the next 2 weeks with no money, no food, no basic human needs until your parents get back? I think you would lend them the money.

Also, if we give money to the US, you can be damn sure they are going to give us a lot more when we have a natural disaster, and one is coming, it's just a matter of time.

We need all of the friends we can get, because Australia is expected to suffer massive tidal surges as an outcome from the San Andreas fault when it finally goes, and it will go, it is also a matter of time.

50c Per australian to secure our future friendship with America is not too much to ask I don't think.
Benny Gammelmark
DieHard
NSW
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Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:47 pm, by:  Benny Gammelmark (Oldfield) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good points, Troy.

Except I don't think the US will have much to spare when the San Andreas fault goes.
There could be other disasters though.

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