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Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 2622
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:55 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can you say that Vista is anything like the 98/ME debacle? Vista has at least 5 fundamental core technology changes - total re-writes of user security, networking, display, new user interface and executive processes (memory and task managers etc) not just a half assed cosmetic muck up and removal of DOS tools like ME.

Sure its an interim step to Vienna, but its much much more than a cosmetic upgrade to XP.
Leon Wright
DieHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 736
Reg: 08-2006

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 09:18 am, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Easily :-) What happens when you release and OS, then soon after release another one? Only OEM Machines run it and not well at that. A service pack *may* get released and usually it takes 2 for M$ to get their acts together.

So people that spend there time fixing them (people like me) have to deal with the aftermath of an orphan operating system, that has no updated support and very unstable.

Vista User Security = Joke and a UI isn't a core operating technology, it's bling! There are other core technologies like DRM that have been further grained into the OS (but I will leave that discussion for another Soap box )
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 2624
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:33 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last I heard Vienna wasn't scheduled for release until 2009, so its hardly soon. Remember XP to Vista was the longest delay between any two releases of Windows.

Vista's main problem with security seems to be that its now overly fussy and frustrating with the constant interruptions it introduces, even when you have local admin rights, and I'd say a lot of it is unnesissary. Some of the other stuff IS a big deal too though - IPv6 integration, DRM (yay for the f*ck up they seem to have made of that!), use of 3D in Aero (yeah, its just bling, and I'd even argue pointless bling, but it would have still taken a lot of work!)

I have to say from the little I've used it, it does seem like a good release - but I'm not running it on my own laptop yet - like you I'll wait for the service pack. As a developer I'm more interested in .net framework version 3.

Actually with Vienna's new filing system and integrated database I bet it'll bring a lot more headaches for you than Vista has!
Leon Wright
DieHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 737
Reg: 08-2006

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 01:41 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd still consider Vista an Interim release, most of the things promised to come with it, never ended up in it!

IPv6 Integration is a big deal for MS to finally come to the table about, but it is something the that the *nix camp have been doing for years.

The UAC is conditioning users to a "click yes and it will go away" mentality. I maintain that it's an absolute joke. This article and video here nearly killed me with laughter (Peter Watson, Microsoft Australia's chief security advisor)
http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Microsoft-All-operating-systems-should-use-Vista-s-UAC-security /0,339028227,339275111,00.htm

The UAC has been around for years and it's been best practice to run as a limited user on *nix as long as I can remember. The reason behind not running as a limited user on XP is that it is such a pain in the ass!! Half the time you have to log out and log into the admin account to do anything, It's practically useless.

I'm actually quite tired of M$ taking everyone else's ideas, implementing them and acting like a 2 year old screaming "look at me mummy, mummy... mum! look look! I'm so good aren't I!!"
Simon Triantafillou
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 1103
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 01:55 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


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Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT) / 97 JZA80 (TT)

Posts: 1803
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:12 pm, by:  Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hahahahhaha LOVE IT Simon! These things absolutely kill me with laughter haha
Leon Wright
DieHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 738
Reg: 08-2006

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:17 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes some friends of mine have tried to convince to buy into iLife screw that!! F/OSS FTW!!
Simon Triantafillou
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 1104
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:08 pm, by:  Simon Triantafillou (Soarer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hehe, glad you like them Vinh :-)
Jeff Wilkins
TryHard
South Australia
JZZ30 GT-TL

Posts: 398
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:45 pm, by:  Jeff Wilkins (Calin) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much of a big deal is IPv6 integration...really?

Is IPv6 going 'live' (worldwide use) next year? no. The year after? no. In fact its roll-out (if it can be called that) is not realistically foreseeable in the next 5-10 years.

Do you think WFS will be ready for Vienna? Possibly, though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Networking improvements? Network usage has increased 10 fold, Vista just does not stop babbling over your network. Its only groovyness is the fact that, yes it does map your network very prettily; but is it worth the flood of traffic?

As for its graphical beauty, its presenting nothing that wasn't already available for linux ages ago. Linux even managed it with nowhere near the processor usage. 'Aero' survived nearly 3 days on my Vista install before being canned.

Having now killed both of my Vista professional installs and reverted to XP / fedora. Theres is only one thing I miss from Vista, the notepad widget in the sidebar (yes I realise I can get this for xp. Cant be bothered).

UAC had one absolutely fantastic thing going for it. Disabling it took seconds.
Leon Wright
DieHard
WA
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 739
Reg: 08-2006

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 08:39 pm, by:  Leon Wright (Techman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lol, who knows when IPv6 will go live, but I know for one it's going to be a hell of a lot of work. I guess it will be like the Y2K stuff, it will get down to the last couple of thousand ip's and someone will pipe and say "hey guys, oh bugger... is that IPv6 ready yet?"

Had hardware failure on my home server, but no stresses, shoved the hard drive in another machine I had lying around and i was back up and running within 10 minutes. Not a single change required, no kernel recompiles, not even a config file to change. Thank god I wasn't running windows, it wouldn't have been happy, removing drivers, cleaning the registry, may have worked, but wouldn't be stable till it got rebuilt!!

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