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Message |
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8
Posts: 8296
Reg: 11-2004
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So if he wants the camera so badly, you throw it away from him, then run in the other direction.
However, the problem with these guys, is that they are unpredictable. There is no real way of knowing what they are thinking, or will do next. If they lived the way we do, then they wouldn't be there in the first place  |
Rod Iseppi
Tinkerer
wa
uzz31 v8 limited x2
Posts: 68
Reg: 01-2006
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yeah these sorts of people are unpredictable and scary, i was just out late night shopping and driving around looking for a parking spot had so many dodgy looking people eyeing off my car, all wearing dada and fubu hooded jumpers and just waiting for someone to look at them wrong then go king hit them. its scary at home with these sorts of people around let alone going out to the shops... |
Adrain Parsons
TryHard
Qld
JZZ30 tt
Posts: 149
Reg: 08-2005
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all i can say is martial arts training!! ive been doing it for years, im not the biggest buy only 180cm and 85kg, ive taken done 120kg guys with easy!! all girls should do some self defence traing!! |
Josh Coleman
Tinkerer
Tasmania, Australia
Soarer TT
Posts: 8
Reg: 08-2007
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hey guys.. i dont know how this sounds, but i know for one thing, that people are very reluctant to leave their comfort zones to go into unknown territory and stalk their prey.. it comes down to nature... he's only going to do it if he knows a way out, if he knows his surroundings and the REAL POINT of HOW FAR AWAY HELP REALLY IS... if it takes you 20mins to get the police to your house from the next suburb... problem 1.
i really thing the more steps you can be ahead of this person for preventative action is better than provoking the bastard by trying to lure him with camera flashes etc etc.. especially if he's on his own with your missus!
all us guys and girls know your going to do what you can to protect your lives and lifestyle without ending up in the pen and have that bastard walk free.
i think these are good ideas just for starters...
1. stalker fliers - highly descriptive and constantly updated with recent sightings and when and where essential! (assuming he keeps coming back)
2. alarm system stickers on doors and windows even previous to when you have them installed.. make sure they're big enough to be seen at night in any light
3. sand pits - now hear me out... under each window, and along each edge of your garden, lay out some plastic and cover it in sand... enough so the sand doesnt move.. the guy is probably coming back to get more and more used to her habbits assuming he is obsessed which i hope he no longer is, and he will be wanting to see his surroundings from every angle.. you just might snag a footprint of his boot, know where hes standing, he may even try to pry open a window and hense you know where to look for fingerprints, spit, DNA basically..
4. security lights (sensor lights) and a PAS (personal alarm system)... my old lady had a PAS and when she turned it on, people could hear it for blocks.. its not like a car alarm, its a seriously high pitch whisle thats going to give the crook a headache before he even gets near you, and let alone waking up the whole neighborhood hes probably going to •••• himself and not know what to do next
5. this is just as important as the rest... literally give your girlfriend the keys to your house, tell her to stay inside, walk around the house and see how long it takes you to break in.. people often dont realise that theres ways to get into a house without being seen, heard or noticed and this is the scariest part.. for example - see a manhole thru a window? look up! is the roof tiled? is there a tree beside the house tall enough to get onto the roof? see where i'm getting to? its bad.. literally try all your options.. pushing on doors... getting screens out of windows ... see what happens in worse case scenario.. if its more noise than breakage and entering, then chances are you'l wake up with the bastard trying to use his head as a battering ram through that slidiing door...
6. take notes of anything missing, out of place etc etc and report them to your police and neighbourhood watch.. if you go out to get your paper in the morning and your door mat or a pot plant are out of place, chances are its not the posty looking for somewhere to put that express parcel, but the stalker looking for keys or clues to where the keys will be. make sure you keep your shed locked too.. the last thing you want to do is leave open a kitchen worth of utensils in the garden shed he can use to break into your house with... other than that just make sure that any security item you use such as pepper spray etc is well within your rights of use for self defense and you know how to use it properly because you need to make sure you have every angle covered
other than that its good luck to you. i hope for your sake he has moved on, preferably to the gutter like the sewer rat he is and leaves everyone alone... maybe hes harmless, but dont, i repeat dont take the risk that you yourself will end up a victim beyond any measure |
Dave Billings
Tinkerer
Louisiana
SC 300, Manual Transmission
Posts: 49
Reg: 06-2007
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I like our (USA)'s 1st Amendment..."The right to bear ARMS" so... Home invaders-Watch OUT!! They might die of lead poisoning!! LOL  |
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops
Posts: 744
Reg: 08-2005
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Dude. That's the second amendment. |
Jeff Harper
Trader
NSW
UZZ32 Active V8
Posts: 1382
Reg: 07-2005
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11,500 lead poisionings (not knifings or arrows or baseball bats, just lead) per year in USA, 86 in Australia. I like our laws. |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 3264
Reg: 09-2005
|
Dave Billings wrote on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 03:45 am:..."The right to bear ARMS"
Have you watched Family Guy? That amendment was interpreted wrong. The real meaning is the right to hang a pair of bear arms on your wall.
Adrain Parsons wrote on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 11:36 pm:all i can say is martial arts training!! ive been doing it for years, im not the biggest buy only 180cm and 85kg, ive taken done 120kg guys with easy!! all girls should do some self defence traing!!
I agree. One of the great handy things that almost all styles of martial art (not Karate, thats a silly fighting style) teach you is how to use the attacker's movement against themselves.
Some styles call it chi, some 'super happy energy flow', but when you learn how to break someone's arm using no more than the persons own body weight during a punch, its a good feeling. =P |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 2134
Reg: 07-2005
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Miles Baker wrote on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 07:51 am:Dude. That's the second amendment.
 |
Jonathan Hong
Tinkerer
California
JZZ31 (N/A 5 speed)
Posts: 88
Reg: 10-2006
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Yeah Dave! What kind of American are you?! Don't even know your own Amendments  Well, right to "bear" bear arms or not, it has it's ups and downs. As what Jeff has said, if Australia really does only have 86 homicides due to lead poisoning per year, and the astronomical amount of deaths in the US for this one problem, then I say its better that we DON'T have the right to have guns. Most of the people fallen by guns is innocents who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. here is some funny clips of gun control (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE) and the knives for guns exchange(http://youtube.com/watch?v=GsVUJef2vlM)
I like Josh's idea's, as they are very well thought out. I believe that if guns were as easily accessible in Australia as it is in the US, things would be really different over there, but I don't know the gun laws, so :X |
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops
Posts: 747
Reg: 08-2005
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Jonathan Hong wrote on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 05:19 pm:Most of the people fallen by guns is innocents who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Got any facts to support this? I would have thought most would be intentional homicides by people known to the victim. Not random street shootings. |
Jeff Harper
Trader
NSW
UZZ32 Active V8
Posts: 1390
Reg: 07-2005
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Miles, dead is dead. Do you have any facts to disprove his case is the right way to approach it. |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 3293
Reg: 09-2005
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Even if you say 60% of shootings are accidents, that still leaves around 5,000. Thats still a massive figure. |
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops
Posts: 748
Reg: 08-2005
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No Jeff the burden of proof is on the person making the initial claim. I worded my response asking for proof, then clearly stated that my thought is only a supposition. Mine is based on the common statement from police that almost no murders are random killings - almost all are by someone who has a close relationship with the victim. But I did not claim mine as truth, I merely presented an alternative which is at least equally as viable.
Saying I have to disprove any claim to make it untrue would allow me to say "there are aliens on Jupiter" and have it held as truth until you actually go to Jupiter and explore the entire planet to prove me wrong. The same goes for christians who tell me as an atheist that I have to prove there is no god. No, if you are claiming there is a marshmallow man living in the clouds, you have to back that sh!t up.
I am not trying to debate the gun homicide stats you presented - they are accurate. I am not saying I think we should have more guns in Australia either. But I would like to see the truth about guns presented before I make up my mind. That also would include stats about knife/bat/syringe crimes in both countries, as well as some info about the accuracy of the stats too - how they are gathered/reported. Also some info on who is shooting/stabbing who, and comparisons of per capita instead of gross numbers. If it came down to the murder rates being equal but I had a choice of being shot or kicked to death, I would choose shot. |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 3298
Reg: 09-2005
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I dont think you need statistics to prove/disprove that having guns as available as they are in the USA is going to end up in a higher chance of either copping a bullet accidentally or on purpose.
Canada has similar laws as Australia and they have significantly less deaths than the USA also.
Accidental or not, having as many guns around still causes a higher percentage of gun related deaths which is what matters.
NB. Im not saying America is the scumm of the Earth because a greater percentage of people die un-needingly, im just saying that i dont like being around guns. =P |
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops
Posts: 749
Reg: 08-2005
|
Of course having guns around raises *gun* related deaths. But the post argues that most of the deaths were accidental or random. I don't believe that to be true and have asked for evidence. What I am getting at is that if most are not accidental or random, then the homicide was probably going to happen with or without access to a gun. If you are going to kill someone you know, you are going to kill them, correct? If this is the case, the guns really don't make the place any more deadly than it would be without the guns. Probably just slightly less aggravated deaths. If someone who hates me is going to kill me, I'd actually prefer they did it by shooting me in the head than by beating me with a lump of wood for half an hour. Same with a mugging I guess.
But I'm not debating that more guns = more gun related deaths.
Similarly, is there any evidence of this statement? a greater percentage of people die un-needingly
Also I have grown up around guns in both countries. They are nothing to be afraid of. It is only people that you need worry about. I'm not convinced that guns turn people into killers. It's probably a very difficult thing to assess. There is an argument that the less personal nature of killing someone with a gun vs a knife etc does promote some extra homicides. I'm not sure what degree this is.
In any case, I currently have no need for a gun. I do enjoy shooting, but there are other things I enjoy more. I don't currently feel I require such a drastic measure for self defence either. Gun control is not a factor in my decision to live in either country. Living in America did not in any way raise my fear of being shot. We're talking a 99.996% chance of not being killed with a gun there, and a 99.9996% chance here. I'm far more concerned about other things which have a much higher chance of killing me or pissing me off. |
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla
Posts: 3303
Reg: 09-2005
|
Miles Baker wrote on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 02:07 pm:If you are going to kill someone you know, you are going to kill them, correct?
I watched a very interesting documentary the other night which went through the theory that as man evolves he (no feminist comments, please) wants to distance himself more and more from being seen as the animal which takes the responsibility for killing.
Example; The most primitive way to kill someone is with a bare fist. As man evolved from a chimp this turned in to a rock, then a bone, then a long pointy stick. Short sword. Long sword. Bow. Musket. Rifle. Artillery. Airplane. Long range rockets. Cruise missiles. Space ships. Super funky satellite lasers.. etc.
It was pretty interesting how they discussed the evolution of the weapon.
They then went on to talk about the human psyche and how there are 3 different types of people.
-Someone who will run away from a fight
-Someone who will run like an idiot in to a fight not knowing what to do
-Someone who will go in to a fight and just do what is required instinctually without any afterthought. This type of person is considered to come under the alpha male heading.
It was all basically this sort of stuff.
One of the reasons they discussed for the increasing distance of the effectiveness of a weapon (ie, from bare fists to dropping bombs from the sky) is that the person who instigates the attack using the weapon can further distance themselves emotionally from whoever they are killing and can put more of the responsibility of the actual 'kill' in to the tool they are using.
"It wasnt me who killed him, it was the gun!"
Think about it this way. Do you think a smart bookworm who spends all his life training to fly a B-52 stereotypically also be able to walk themselves in to a knife fight or a trench warfare (ala WW1 and 2)?
Sure they might be able to handle themselves but i dont think they would necessarily have the natural instinct to kill someone without any emotional damage. Dropping a bomb and killing hundreds of thousands however is something which you can live with a little easier.
Ill end my waffling now =P
Interesting topic isnt it.
NB. I love shooting clay pidgeons and the occasional rabbit. =P |
Adam Peterson
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Bugatti Veyron
Posts: 1028
Reg: 04-2006
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Im glad my missus isnt reading this thread.. |
Ben Kelly
TryHard
Lidcombe
v8
Posts: 148
Reg: 08-2005
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Well you know they say guns dont kill people. people with guns kill people. Hey Callum if you want to read something interesting try 'writings of an ethical life' by peter singer. see how you like your meat and veg after that. |
Jeff Harper
Trader
NSW
UZZ32 Active V8
Posts: 1393
Reg: 07-2005
|
Ok, enough guessing, here are the facts..,
Health officials in high-income (HI) and upper-middle-income countries (UMI) with populations greater than one million were asked to provide data using ICD-9 codes on firearm-related homicides, suicides, unintentional deaths and deaths of undetermined intent, as well as homicides and suicides for all methods combined. Thirty-six (78%) of the 46 countries provided complete data. We compared age-adjusted rates per 100 000 for each country and pooled rates by income group and geographical location.
During the one-year study period, 88 649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100 000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.
Source: Division of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease control and Prevention Mallstop K60, 4770 Buford Hwy, Atlanta, GA 30341, USA |
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops
Posts: 751
Reg: 08-2005
|
Yes but that doesn't say why the homicides happen, if they are random or known victims, or if the removal of guns would stop them. Also no mention of total homicide rates to see if people in the other countries just picked up a knife instead..
Yes more guns = more gun related deaths. But do guns cause deaths? |
Jeff Harper
Trader
NSW
UZZ32 Active V8
Posts: 1394
Reg: 07-2005
|
Well Miles, you do the work this time, you are excellent at posing questions, so lets see your side of it.
I also think you should join the NRA.
Certainly Mexico, Algeria, Brazil and Russia are extreemly violent countries and none of which I would like to visit. The USA I have many times and will again.
Does speeding cause pedestrian deaths... no, hitting someone with a car does, therefore speeding is safe, just remove the pedestrian off the road. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 3395
Reg: 07-2005
|
A quicker and easier (lower cost) method of doing something promotes doing it. My feeling is that guns commoditise death
However, I too am interested in the extra information Miles requested from Jeff, even though I predict the answer would confirm the point Jeff was seeking to make.
Edit: Jeff, by analogy you just argued we should ban cars... |
Jeff Harper
Trader
NSW
UZZ32 Active V8
Posts: 1399
Reg: 07-2005
|
Miles' turn to do the legwork.
Look, it's a no win situation.
If you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns.
If you legalise guns it becomes a paranoid shoot 1st ask questions later.
Ban pedestrians David. Or ban bullets, not guns. |
Dave Billings
Tinkerer
Louisiana
SC 300, Manual Transmission
Posts: 57
Reg: 06-2007
|
Yeah, I knew it was one of those amendments! And yes Callum, Family Guy Rules!! |
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