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Ryan Rankovic
DieHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 904
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, September 14, 2007 - 08:36 pm, by:  Ryan Rankovic (Ryan1j) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hye guys

After some advice for a friend.

her brother and father went and got her a car from pickles auctions without getting anything checked. vin, chassis etc

she took it to vicroads and the chassis number and the vin number dont match up. and the vin number hasnt been stamped properly.

vicroads advised that the car has been red flagged by the police and is not to be registered.

the car was taken to the police and she has been informed the process of investigation can take from 6 weeks to 12 months.

this is rediculous.

has anyone been in a similar situation, or know of anyone who has? is there anything that can be done to speed things up?

is it illegal for an auction yard to sell a vehicle like this?

what would be the best course of action to take??

cheers

ryan

edit: and ive already crossed the line by saying "you should have got it checked blah blah" so i need something to get me out of the bad books
Josh Coleman
Tinkerer
Tasmania, Australia
Soarer TT

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Friday, September 14, 2007 - 08:54 pm, by:  Josh Coleman (Rampnt_lexxtc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey i think best thing to do is to check the legality of the sale by the auction house. They might have clauses which legally state certain conditions which the car must reach before sale, and that they arent allowed to deal in cars which are unregisterable, but then again, if the car is stolen, then they shouldnt have had dealings with it anyway and in which case they might be liable. friend of mine bought a car from a yard then a week later had debt collectors turn up on her doorstep saying she owed them money... the car yard was liable and had to refund the money to the lady out of court... you might have a case but make sure you tell your friend to seek legal advice, anything she says or does back to the action house could limit their liability. otherwise auction houses can sell cars which are unregisterable (write-offs etc) but if they sold it with a gauruntee of registration, then maybe you have a case! auction houses generally run to certain legalitys like any other business.. it all comes down to responsibilty. in tassy, you have the responsibility if your going to buy a house to have it inspected. if you dont worry bout it, then one day wake up and your front wall is laying in the front yard, its kinda your fault... lots of things that could happen just investigate
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops

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Friday, September 14, 2007 - 11:50 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been through this process with my Mustang, simply because Vicroads don't know sh!t about them and were a bunch of pricks to me.

The cop who did the check was nice and VERY knowledgeable. He said, and I believe him, that they know the "theft target" cars inside out. ie Holden, Ford etc. So if it is a common late model car and it is dodgy, they will know.

I believe you will be dealing with the OMVS I think it is? Be very nice to them and they will be nice to you. You can not rush them. Have a guess how happy I was being told I could not drive my new convertible at the start of summer. Had to wait until the end of summer for my appointment to come up. JUST BE NICE AND BE HONEST.
Ryan Rankovic
DieHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 12:40 am, by:  Ryan Rankovic (Ryan1j) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the replies guys


Josh Coleman wrote on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 08:54 pm:

and that they arent allowed to deal in cars which are unregisterable, but then again, if the car is stolen, then they shouldnt have had dealings with it anyway and in which case they might be liable.




that would makes sense in a perfect world wouldnt it?

im still trying to get my head around the, "terms and conditions"

SPECIAL CONDITIONS 9B AND 9C FOR MOTOR VEHICLE AUCTIONS
9B The Auctioneer makes no representation as to the title of any motor vehicle offered for sale by auction. In the event that a guarantee of title is offered, such guarantee is limited between the Auctioneer and the Purchaser of such motor vehicle and does not pass or extend to any subsequent purchaser or successor in title of such motor vehicle or any third party.

9C The Purchaser acknowledges:

9C.1 That if a motor vehicle, having Victorian registration, is offered for sale or sold by the Auctioneer with an Inspection Report (commonly known as a "Pink Slip") or an Unregistered Vehicle Inspection Report (commonly known as a "Blue Slip") then the Purchaser acknowledges that any such Inspection Report was supplied by the Vendor as required by the law of the State of Victoria and was not supplied by the Auctioneer AND the Purchaser further acknowledges that the Auctioneer cannot and does not warrant or guarantee the correctness or accuracy of anything contained in or implied by such Inspection Report as it is only acting as agent of the Vendor AND the Purchaser will not hold the Auctioneer liable or responsible in any way whatsoever for the contents of such Inspection Report and if any dispute arises in relation to such Inspection Report then the Purchaser acknowledges and agrees that he will exclude the Auctioneer from any such dispute or any subsequent claim action or Court proceedings and further agrees to indemnify the Auctioneer from and against all liability (including costs on a full indemnity basis) which may be incurred by the Auctioneer in relation to any such dispute, subsequent claim action or Court proceedings; and

9C.2 That if a motor vehicle is offered for sale or sold by the Auctioneer with a Pre-Auction Report or other expert report as to its condition then the Purchaser acknowledges that such report was supplied by the Vendor and was not supplied by the Auctioneer AND the Purchaser further acknowledges that the Auctioneer cannot and does not warrant or guarantee the correctness or accuracy of anything contained in or implied by such report as it is only acting as agent of the Vendor AND the Purchaser will not hold the Auctioneer liable or responsible in any way whatsoever for the contents of such report and if any dispute arises in relation to such report then the Purchaser acknowledges and agrees that he will exclude the Auctioneer from any such dispute or any subsequent claim action or Court proceedings and further agrees to indemnify the Auctioneer from and against all liability (including costs on a full indemnity basis) which may be incurred by the Auctioneer in relation to any such dispute, subsequent claim action or Court proceedings.


It didnt come with an Unregistered Vehicle Inspection Reportas far as im aware.

Miles, the car is a Ford Festiva Trio 98 model. Cant quite compare it to your mustangs however its her first car, shes fallen in love with it and im really pissed off at how upset she is over it.

After you spoke to the police, did they direct you to OMVS? Or did they get in contact with you?
What ended up being the problem with the mustang, and how they went about fixing it? If you dont mind me asking that is.

I'm going to try and convince her to simply take it back and get her money from pickles, but as i said shes fallen in love with it and i think that will be quite a task.



Thanks for the replies guys, Ill update the thread for those interested.
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 01:03 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What was wrong was it had the engine number in a place that the great minds at vicroads didn't expect. Plus the guy who was inspecting it was a complete asswipe nazi. Who started scratching at my motor with a screwdriver and a stick, and was surprised when I told him to stop. Anyway then he cracked it about the engine number being in a "strange" location and referred me to the cops. This involved him filling out a piece of paper and faxing it to the OMVS. I then drove over the road to the cop shop. The constable there called the OMVS and told them vicroads are asswipes. They said sorry, we have to see it. The really bad part was that was the second day in a row I had been to vicroads. The day before, we couldn't find the engine number and I had to get in contact with the mechanic who did the RWC to find out where he found it. It ended up just being under a bit of dust and a bit old and faint. But one day they don't know where it should be. The next day it's "oh no we know where it should be and that's the wrong place". Where they "knew" it should be was not used by Ford for another 15 years!

In the end I phoned vicroads hq and made a complaint about the guy. One of their guys at the top of the registrations dept realised I had been fucced over and tried to get my car fast tracked through the police process. He couldn't! They are the police, they are not vicroads. You don't complain to the police.

A month or so later the OMVS called and booked me in for an appointment. I took the car to their place in Collingwood. The dude there was a police mechanic guy. He had a 55 Chev and a couple of Commodores there. He said vicroads routinely send him rubbish jobs like my car and the Chev because they have their heads in their asses. He told me he gets a lot of problems with vicroads not knowing what a crate motor is and how to follow their own processes regarding them.

I left my car with him for 2 hours and came back. He gave me a complete rundown on the history of Windsor V8s and why the engine number on mine was just as believable as any other, seeing as how Ford sometimes did, sometimes didn't stamp numbers in those days. And anyway, vicroads should have known better than to think it was stolen, it obviously wasn't. AND even if it was, there was no real way of tracing it anyway, so they were just wasting his time.

Good luck with it. Be on time. Be polite. Do everything they say. Be completely honest and ask them for help. They're nice people and they're just doing their job trying to stop their criminal targets. the O in OMVS stands for ORGANISED. They know who is and who isn't an organised crime boss.

If the car has been referred to the OMVS, I don't know if returning it would be a wise move. They have HER name with regards to a suspected stolen vehicle. They'll want to see it. Good luck with it and I feel your friend's pain. I really do. If it helps, I can give her a hug?

It could well be nothing at all. The engine not matching the VIN could just mean the engine blew up at some stage and the owner replaced it and didn't think to tell vicroads. The thing about the VIN stamp could mean a stack, just a bodgy stamping job, lot of things. I wouldn't have the slightest idea about how crims rebirth or whatever, so I wouldn't know what to tell you to look for...
Benn Glover
Tinkerer
Queensland
Black Soarer TT 5spd

Posts: 10
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Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 08:19 pm, by:  Benn Glover (Djaltaego) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to throw it out there with those terms and conditions of the auctioneer the way that I can interpret it - which may be wrong :-) - is that simply if there is an issue the auctioneer isn't liable but the vendor that they represented, so basically if it were to turn nasty it would lead to a case of illegal sale against that person whom the auctioneer represented. I feel sorry for your friend though, it would suck to get a nice new ride and have to go through that, it'd almost take the novelty out of it :-(
Josh Coleman
Tinkerer
Tasmania, Australia
Soarer TT

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 07:29 pm, by:  Josh Coleman (Rampnt_lexxtc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep yep i agree with benn your better off having the clauses interpretted by a lawyer ... best thing to do.. they understand all the crap shoved in our faces to confuse us normal people! if she can return it, the cash is better off in her hands...
Ryan Rankovic
DieHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 906
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Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 11:48 pm, by:  Ryan Rankovic (Ryan1j) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the replies guys. and thanks for the rundown miles.

have spoken to a friend who works for vic police and have asked him to talk to anyone he knows who deals with this kind of stuff or if they know anyone etc..

pickles will be contacted tomorrow as they arent open on the weekend.

hopefully it will be sorted out quick

will update as it progresses
Gregg Holden
Trader
WA
Soarer UZZ31 Supercharged

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Monday, September 17, 2007 - 03:43 pm, by:  Gregg Holden (Xzotic) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ryan,

It seems pretty clear from the T&C's that any disputes will be between the purchaser and the vendor NOT the auctioneer. It looks like they have gone through all this before with T&C's as tight as that.

Essentially there is ZERO liability on the Auctioneer unless you can find something in common law that negates one of their T&C's. That would require a lawyer to make that assessment (At $200 to $400 per hour). At the end of the day your friend will have to take it up with the vendor.

You'll be able to get that information from Pickles but it will then be a matter of following up direct with the vendor. If they don't play ball you could be up for registering a police report and going through a lengthy process.

It doesn't look good and with T&C's like that it would seem that this practice probably occurs regularly...very dodgy but a good heads up for anyone thinking of buying in a similar manner.
Ryan Rankovic
DieHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

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Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 05:21 pm, by:  Ryan Rankovic (Ryan1j) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just received a call from my friend, and her brother has just called her to say the car has been cleared by the police :-)

will post up the specifics later on tonight.

thanks for everyones replies :-)
Miles Baker
DieHard
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 73 Corvette 4sp T-Tops

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Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 06:36 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great news!
Josh Coleman
Tinkerer
Tasmania, Australia
Soarer TT

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Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 11:00 pm, by:  Josh Coleman (Rampnt_lexxtc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes mate that sounds great i bet your lady is pleased with the result! she finally gets to drive her 'cute' car !! :-)
Brian Timms
DieHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

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Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 06:43 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

great news, and wasn't a heaps long turn-around either, good to hear :-)

B.
Ryan Rankovic
DieHard
Victoria
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 925
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Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 09:10 pm, by:  Ryan Rankovic (Ryan1j) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry for not replying!

the car was booked in today for a look over by the OMVS and be registered.

apparently pickles had the paperwork for why the car was red flagged, but didnt let her brother know? they waited for the police to investigate and then they said, "oh we have the papers right here"

retards

i havent spoken to her yet to find out how today went, so ill post up when i know how it turned out :-)

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