Soarer Central: Archive through October 21, 2005

Soarer Central Off-Topic Running sucks Archive through October 21, 2005

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Morgan Cross
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Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:20 pm, by: Morgan Cross (Morgan)

Over the past 2 years I've been going somewhat hard with the weights/gym routine and come to the realisation that overall my fitness sucks.

I haven't run more than 30metres in over 10 years and tonight, for some unknown reason I got the motivation to get my ass off ALSC and into my running shoes.

After a 15 min 2-3K jog around my estate, I can say I'm in the most pain I've ever been in my life

Tell me it gets easier.

PS - Forget the fact that I forgot to stretch haha, this is gonna hurt tomorrow.

Don Bagnall
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Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:36 pm, by: Don Bagnall (Baggs)

Good onya Morgs........if more people had your resolve, then the world would be a fitter place.....RESPECT!

Kris Antczak
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Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 11:16 pm, by: Kris Antczak (Lexus_v8)

I've been in your shoes before Morgs (Not literally, haha). It does get easier...eventually.

The worst thing is, is that if you stop for a while all the hard work will just go down the crapper mate.

when i did a 3k run, i couldn't walk properly for about 3 days...hahaha

but getting back into it now.

Thomas Mulraney
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Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 11:31 pm, by: Thomas Mulraney (Mxt_imports)

you could just walk to start off with Morgs, has the same overall effect and won't take away from your hard work at the gym (i.e. running reduces body mass, not just fat, etc.)

Shane Ilich
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 02:10 am, by: Shane Ilich (Ferret)

Thomas Mulraney wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 11:31 pm:
you could just walk to start off with Morgs, has the same overall effect and won't take away from your hard work at the gym (i.e. running reduces body mass, not just fat, etc.)

hmmm...not quite true. (the running reduces body mass, not just fat bit)

first off, body mass is made up of fat, muscle, and bone mass, of which, 2 are easily changeable.

without getting too technical (i'm a human movement PhD student) there's three forms of exercise - muscle building, fat burning, and cardiovascular fitness building. you can do all three - ie you can be buff, lean, AND fit (think boxers, or even AFL footballers)...most people dont have the time to dedicate to each form of exercise, so only focus on one (eg muscle bulk, or cardio fitness)

it depends on what you're running for, morgan. if its for cardio fitness, you need to be running at roughly 60-75% pace, and for at least 15 mins (REALLY general guidelines). at this sorta workrate, you'll be burning a bit of fat but mainly carbs, and you'll be increasing your lactate threshold as you get fitter and fitter across sessions. you will burn fat doing this, and you will get lean, but it wont be specifically burning fat.

lactate threshold is best thought of as the point at which you switch from burning fat to burning carbs/glucose. long-duration marathon type stuff at low intensity will burn mainly fat...middle distance, moderate effort, carbs...high intensity short-duration sprints, muscle glucose. the by-product of burning glucose and carbs is lactate (ie lactic acid) which is what causes your muscles to become sore/tired (im not gonna go into how.why). as you get fitter, the crossover point changes, as does your lactate tolerance, such that you can work harder before you build up the same level of lactate, and when you do build it up, your muscles can tolerate it a bit better, meaning you can run faster/further before you get tired/cramp up.

if you're specifically after fat loss, then you want to be doing minimum 30 mins, at low intensity (ie "talking pace" - if jogging/walking/cycling, a pace that you can comfortably hold a conversation at). however, in some respects, walking faster will be better for fat loss than jogging slower - as you walk faster, you become less efficient, and hence you end up jogging at a certain pace (the crossover speed from walking to running is roughly 8km/hr in humans) because its a more efficient (burns less energy) gait pattern. so if you're wanting to burn off fat, you want to try and hold a less efficient fast walk - hence, power-walking was introduced.

basically, fat provides the greatest energy per gram...but it takes a bit longer to be broken down. carbs provide slightly less energy per gram, but they're broken down quicker - and release some lactate as a side-effect. muscle glucose is the quickest to be broken down, but we only store enough for about 4 seconds worth of effort, and it releases a lot of lactate. protein (ie muscle mass) can also be broken down, but your body only does that as a last resort, because the energy return is quite poor, as it is a 2-stage process to release energy - protein first gets broken down into a variety of carb (i think???) then converted into energy...so you only really lose muscle mass in extreme situations like starvation, once all your glucose, carb, and fat reserves have been burnt off, in that order.

if you're trying to get fit for a sport, and especially one where acceleration/takeoff is needed (eg tennis, basketball, football, etc) then skipping provides a great cardio workout, and also provides a plyomteric workout to your calves, giving you better take-off power.

and if you've got dicky knees, stick to lower impact stuff, especially if you're looking to burn fat (ie covering larger distances)...stay with cycling, swimming, or run on sand. i'm doing my PhD looking at development and progression of arthritis in the knee, and impact loading forces on the knee is one of the biggest risk factors...

but whatever you do, keep it up. adherence to exercise is usually peoples biggest downfall - they go like a bat out of hell for a week or 2, then things get in the way, and they drop off....get a workout buddy, make a specific appointment 3 times a week to exercise, and that way you're putting pressure on each other to rock up and do it. you should start to feel/see the effects after about 4-6 weeks...if you're running for fitness, do a timed run once a week to measure your improvement.

Ollie Ernst
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ACT
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 08:15 am, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

For a guy like myself who's reached middle age and looking at getting back into some sort of shape that was the best read I've had for ages. Thanks for the very informative post Shane. Certainly some very enlightening info there.

Mel Morgan
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Qld
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 08:48 am, by: Mel Morgan (Active8)

I found it easier to start my fitness on the bike, it strengthened the muscles around my knees etc so that when I started doing a bit of running it didn't hurt so much. The bike is great for low impact, good for the butt and thighs too.

Stephen Hille
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 09:44 am, by: Stephen Hille (9zero)

Shane are you saying to lose fat, instead of going flat out for 30 minutes or something - going at a slower steadier pace will have a better effect?

Thomas Mulraney
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:10 am, by: Thomas Mulraney (Mxt_imports)

cheers for that Shane, that's what I was trying to say but now you've explained and justified it a whole lot better!

Shane Ilich
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:16 am, by: Shane Ilich (Ferret)

stephen - yep...going flat out will work your cardio fitness, but you end up needing energy quicker, so you switch from burning fat to burning carbs. for fat burning, you want low intensity long duration exercise. the longer the better.

mel - exactly, its usually the impact that creates a lot of the soreness from running. its also good to do a few different forms of exercise, so you're using different muscles in different ways, helps keep everything in balance.

Andrew Hampton
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:16 pm, by: Andrew Hampton (Andrew)

Shane, great read. I just decided to loose a bit of weight about a month ago, have been walking 5kms everyday and have been drinking heaps of water (don't drink water on w/ends that is reserved for alcohol). But i feel heaps better and have lost a bit of weight, i can tell i have lost weight cause the clothes are alot looser fit on me now.

Stephen Hille
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:21 pm, by: Stephen Hille (9zero)

So is that why you hear of people not eating carbs - so while exercizing there are no carbs to break down so your body has to break down fat.

Sorry about the questions I just find it interesting, have been doing some pathophysiology recently learning about ATP and ADP and all that stuff

Ian Johnston
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:46 pm, by: Ian Johnston (Ted)

I married a good cook and am now way over weight!

Shane Ilich
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:53 pm, by: Shane Ilich (Ferret)

Stephen Hille wrote on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:21 pm:
So is that why you hear of people not eating carbs - so while exercizing there are no carbs to break down so your body has to break down fat.

Sorry about the questions I just find it interesting, have been doing some pathophysiology recently learning about ATP and ADP and all that stuff

hey, no worries about the questions, just gotta warn you, exercise physiol's not my strongest point, this is all kinda 3rd year stuff that i'm trying to remember.

but yeah, there is a school of thought that follows something along those lines. gotta be careful though, cos it can basically leave you feeling really flat and "blech" for the entire day, cos you've got no energy reserves.

i personally dont advocate any of those radical "carb-free"/"fat-free"/"protein-free" diets....you need balance. however, it has been shown that if you exercise in the morning on an empty stomach, particularly at low-intensity, you burn more fat, cos you basically dont have any carbs spare to burn. then you can go and have some cereal/bread (carbs) with a fairly low GI, and let that just slow-burn through the day to keep you up and going.

GI - glycemic index - basically a measure of sugar content. high GI means it gets broken down quick, but bad thing is it can cause a big spike in your blood sugar levels, which then triggers insulin release to break down the blood sugar, and then you have a big blood sugar slump, and that leaves you feeling tired/flat (think about what happens about an hour after a big lunch). the lower the GI, the more even the sugar release, and you dont have the big spike then slump in blood sugar, so you stay more even.

also, if you're trying to lose weight/keep it off, have the biggest meal of the day in the morning, so that you burn most of it off during the day. us westerners have got in the rally bad habit of having big dinners every night - so you take in all this energy, then go to sleep, and dont use it, so your body stores it for later - as fat. its all ass-about - we shoud really be having the big pasta dishes for breakfast, not dinner.

a big meal in the morning, carb-based, (eg cereal, bread, pasta) with a low GI, then a series of small, low-med GI snacks every 3 hours or so (eg salad, nuts, tuna, fruit), up to 5 meals a day, is one of the more proven methods of losing weight.

small regular meals promotes your metabolism to speed up, so you burn more energy quicker (increasing muscle mass will also do this). dinner really only needs to be enough of a meal so that you dont feel hungry when you go to bed, and should have as little fat as possible.

Andrew Hampton
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 01:11 pm, by: Andrew Hampton (Andrew)

Shane Ilich wrote on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:53 pm:
if you exercise in the morning on an empty stomach, particularly at low-intensity, you burn more fat, cos you basically dont have any carbs spare to burn. then you can go and have some cereal/bread (carbs) with a fairly low GI, and let that just slow-burn through the day to keep you up and going.

Shane, is it ok to go for about a 3km walk in the morning (on a empty stomach), then have breakfast. Is that a better way of burning off fat.

Samantha Hornby
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 01:19 pm, by: Samantha Hornby (Soarer_chick_1jz)

Since when are all these males obsessed with losing weight? I thought that was our job?

Shane Ilich
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 01:25 pm, by: Shane Ilich (Ferret)

Andrew Hampton wrote on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 01:11 pm:
Shane, is it ok to go for about a 3km walk in the morning (on a empty stomach), then have breakfast. Is that a better way of burning off fat.

in my opinion, yes. its what i've started doing now that the weather's fining up and the sun's up earlier - heading down to the beach at about 7am, running for about an hour, then having some breakfast and heading to uni by about 9. perfect start to the day. gonna start alternating with 9 holes of golf from 6:30-8ish, then breakfast, before uni...its a tough life, this PhD gig

Shane Ilich
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Friday, October 21, 2005 - 01:44 pm, by: Shane Ilich (Ferret)

we're not gonna get into the "it takes a big hammer to drive a long nail" lines here are we, neil??

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