Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 06:05 pm, by: Cameron Stanley(Camskea)
Ok, I got a quick few details then a question or two.
As we all know Soarers are the greatest car ever. They should then be kept to a standard which would reflect this, hence my wanting to rid my (awesome) Soarer of its imperfections in the dent department........
So this person I know, Mr X for the sake of the story, is a panel beater by trade, runs a business doing this and some custom work.
I asked Mr X if he was willing to do some work on my car, using body filler in the dents and chips etc, free of charge, (not through the business) as a favour because we have known each other a long time. As a return favour I would help doing some lawns or general garden stuff.
It was decided that I would go to Mr X place of business and the work on the car would commence.
I arrived and it did. Out came the speed file, hacking away at the paint all down the passenger side, body filler was applied and sanding began.
To my horror, I was then told that this was a crap way to spend a Sunday and I would have to just take the car to get the work done at a panel shop!!!!!
WTF??
That was it, work stopped, half my car all but ruined, I was standing there flabergasted. I wont bore you all with the rest of the details but it was left at that.....
Then in an almost surreal moment I was asked to help with the garden work......
Again...WTF??
Being a better person, I did help.
So my questions being: Do you think I have any legal recourse? Can I bill Mr X for the repairs to my car? Surely just because we know each other he cant damage my car and be done with it?
To me it seems just the same as a random keying a car and being able to get away without any repercussions. The relationship is dissolved so that part is not an issue, I'm just not impressed with the prospect of $1000, approx. worth of repairs that I may have to pay for. I never would have considered taking the car to a shop to get the dents done and this has pissed me off.
Thanks to anyone who may have some advice.
Cameron
Ben Socratous Goo Roo SA I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 06:22 pm, by: Ben Socratous(Socrates)
Seeing as it was done 'off the books' so to speak, you have very little, if any recourse in the matter. Your best bet would be to go through the small claims tribunal, but even then, you would have to provide some sort of evidence that the said promise of exchanged labour actually occured.
Cameron Stanley wrote on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 06:05 pm:
To me it seems just the same as a random keying a car and being able to get away without any repercussions.
And this unfortunately occurs many times, every day
Its a sh!t situation, I wish you all the best in resolving the matter!
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 06:44 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
Witnesses, to any part of the conversations or events?
Further to what Ben said, the fact that he did work on the car represents value which may well be equal or greater than the value you supplied in the garden. The fact that he did not finish is neither here nor there in that regard. You did not have a quotation of dollar value, hours input or promise of complete repair so the fact that the car is now "worse" from your point of view does not negate the fact that you have "saved" some money by getting preliminary work done at no charge.
Your principal argument would be the one you mentioned, that you would not have commenced without expectation of completion and that the request for work in the garden was agreed as consideration for the work to be undertaken, with the implication of completion. That is, he could not reasonably argue that he was unaware of the extent of work which might be required before commencement and nor could he argue that he thought you would be happy with partial work.
In my lay view, those would be the contending positions. I think that if you were to go to a small claims court and argue the case then you might have some small success in getting him to do more work although possibly at the expense of more gardening! Would you want him to do it, though? With what expectation of quality?
Now I am acting as I were a magistrate as well as a lawyer whereas I am neither. It is interesting to speculate on your problem. Really though, if you are so skint that you can not afford the repair anyway, I suggest you call Legal Aid for advice, not us.
If you are not so skint, then you should not have been a skinflint and contributed to the destruction of a relationship.
Polonius was not so silly as he tends to be portrayed.
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 07:02 pm, by: Ben Kelly(Ace)
I did business law like an eternity ago so take this with a grain of whatever, but i would say that you do in fact have a legally binding contract based on satisfying the offer and acceptance; and other rules that satisfy there being a contract.
In terms of 'consideration' you would need to argue that the consideration was sufficient in that it represented the work you would do on the garden (Quid pro quo).
Then you have the issue of whether there was an intention to create a legally binding contract rather than a simple promise. the fact that you met at the place of business would benefit your case here.
The other problem is that verbal contracts are often only worth the paper they are written on...
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 07:12 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
I would be with you on your first paragraph, Ben, if I got a positive answer to my question about witnesses (which is your last point of course).
Also, although the events were at X's place of business, they were not on a business day (Sunday) nor on a business basis (in terms of checking the car in, having a quotation and all that stuff)
Although there are commonly held to be four key elements of a contract, there are in fact no specific "rules" according to my texts.
I think you got it right when you said "promise". I guess I am on the negative side of the prospects despite trying to talk up the positive in one paragraph above.
So, if I am being negative then I say to Cameron, get real advice so you are not put off by me. Besides, shouting and stamping your foot can really work, even in disputes worth $millions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 07:16 pm, by: Scott Gates(Scotty_001)
Mate that sucks, if he does this as a business, surely he could fix it up for you. And about the keying of cars, it happens all the time and hardly anyone gets caught.
I hate to steal the spotlight here, so i wont, but i have my own problem which i need some legal tips on. I better make my own thread though. lol
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 08:24 pm, by: Ben Kelly(Ace)
Cameron, I believe David has a point. In fact regardless of the legalities it is often better to settle things in a civil manner. At some point while helping him fix his garden did you not mention that he might want to complete his end of the bargain as agreed? Is there any other recourse available to you? Perhaps he can ask one of his off siders to complete the job when they are not busy, or perhaps you could compensate for materials but not labour? What a dick anyway! just seduce his wife, get her to divorce him and get half his business.
Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 06:42 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
If you aren't worried about the friendship any more, then I'd go to my insurance company and explain the situation - I'd agree with you, what he has done is basically vandalism, so you must have some recourse - see if you can place an insurance claim with him as the at-fault party.
Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 05:25 pm, by: Cameron Stanley(Camskea)
Thanks for everyones input. It looks as though I just have to eat •••• on this one. Funny how people don't think though.......if he's not legally responsible for trashing my car, then that only leads me to believe that I wont be either in a few weeks when everything dies and wont grow back as there was no contract.......mwahahahah.
Btw, people are only thinking short term here.....round up is cheap,also effective but lacks a lasting impression......
Round up and heavily sated water....now that is leaving a legacy!!!
Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 06:56 pm, by: Daniel Riley(Riley_71)
Hi Cameron,
Sorry to hear about the car, thats rough luck.
In regards to any legal recourse, unfortunately i agree with Avin. Although you may have some of the elements required to prove a contract existed offer, acceptance, consideration etc it will be almost impossable to prove there was an intention to create legal relations. As there is a basic presumption that friends and family do not intend to be legally bound.(see Balfour v Balfour [1919] 2 KB 571).
If you can prove there was an intention to create legal relations, you may be able to enforce the contract, particually as you performed your part of the agreement. (you would be seeking (legally speaking) specific performance or a legal enforcement of his part of the contract.
In saying that unfortunately it sounds like it might be a long shot as you have the onus of proving that there was a legal intention and there was nothing written and no witnesses to the agreement.
Hopefully your "mate" will be a nice bloke and finish what he started.
P.S this is only my own two cents - not to be relied upon as legal advice.
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