| Author |
Message |
Mike Bradberry
Goo Roo
Queensland
V8 UnLimited
Posts: 1347
Reg: 07-2005
|
That's so interesting Haydn, you are the only one who has picked up on that.
Just goes to show how some of the populous can be mislead. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 4360
Reg: 07-2005
|
populace.
It says Matthew up the top. Perhaps a moderator changed it. It is irrelevant in either case because neither Johns brother is actually the topic here, so I for one paid it no attention. |
Haydn Crandell
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5
Posts: 697
Reg: 11-2005
|
David Vaughan wrote on Saturday, May 16, 2009 - 03:56 pm:
populace.
It says Matthew up the top. Perhaps a moderator changed it. It is irrelevant in either case because neither Johns brother is actually the topic here, so I for one paid it no attention.
well it just got changed to Mathew.thats just bollocks you paid it no Attention, you wouldnt have clicked on it if you paid no attention lol |
Mike Bradberry
Goo Roo
Queensland
V8 UnLimited
Posts: 1348
Reg: 07-2005
|
Thanks for your spelling correction David. As nothing came up when I went to post, I assumed it must have been correct.
As for the name 'Mathew' or 'Andrew' I really can't remember what I put up in the first place, but I swear there was mention somewhere of Andrew.
Whatever. The topic is what was relevant for me. |
Haydn Crandell
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5
Posts: 698
Reg: 11-2005
|
lol come on mike it was only 2 days ago, and yeah i heard alot of people on the news referring to Andrew ,then they corrected it pretty quick and changed to Mathew.probably so used to hearing andrews name alot.
can tell you now if i was involved in a scandal like that and people used my Brothers name im sure he would be pretty pissed off.
so when you are talking of a situation id say yeah the name is relevant.
How proud must there parents be aye lol |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 4361
Reg: 07-2005
|
The topic was formerly Andrew and was changed to Matthew. I can confirm that from my browser history.
Correcting a couple of minor misunderstandings:
Haydn, I meant I paid no attention to the detail of the name because distinguishing the brother is not the topic. Of course I understood the real topic and it was to that I paid attention when clicking on it.
Mike, the spelling checker did not help because populous is a legitimate word, but it is an adjective whereas you wanted the noun form. This is why I hate stupid bloody spelling checkers. They "approve" errors leaving the user none the wiser. Look at "phased" rather than "fazed" in newspapers for example. [/rant] |
Shane McInnes
Goo Roo
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual
Posts: 1441
Reg: 07-2005
|
Miles if he wasnt a famous footballer this would never of made the news because what happened was by no means illegal or against the law, it was thoroughly investigated 7yrs ago and there was no case to answer so why should there be a case to answer 7yrs later? its quite ridiculous really.
I take Matty Johns side for the simple fact the NZ Police investigated this matter 7years ago and cleared the players of any wrong doing and i strongly believe the NZ Police would not have taken this case lightly or let the players of in anyway i remember when this made the news 7yrs ago and the NZ Police came to Australia to interview the players, and look at the reports from the girls friends saying that she bragged about it for 5 days after the event.
Like i said before though if she did happen to say NO then that changes everything i believe in, but there has not been one report where she says that she said NO and wanted them to stop. |
Mike Bradberry
Goo Roo
Queensland
V8 UnLimited
Posts: 1349
Reg: 07-2005
|
I take your point Haydn. If I was a reporter for this story, I would make certain I had the christian name correct. |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1615
Reg: 08-2005
|
Check me out, last sentence in post number 3.
Shane, might be handy to refresh yourself with the stats on rape cases that have to be dropped due to "insufficient evidence". |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1616
Reg: 08-2005
|
Oh look, another one in the news this morning. This time 3 Broncos players. |
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
GT Starlet
Posts: 2754
Reg: 07-2005
|
MEH - that is old news again, this is getting fricken stupid. This bird obviously cashed in nicely from this "exclusive" also.
I wonder what will be on next Sunday Mail's cover...... "TWIN TOWERS ATTACKED" maybe? *not trying to offend just making a point* |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1617
Reg: 08-2005
|
Yeah, boy do I wish I got raped so I could make some bucks too. |
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
GT Starlet
Posts: 2758
Reg: 07-2005
|
hmmm , ok that kinda got taken the wrong way Miles. Not about getting raped as yes we all agree that is bad news. Its about OLD 'incidents' coming up again and again and getting beaten to death by the media despite no charged ever being laid by the officials. |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 10561
Reg: 11-2004
|
How long before Johns gets his Channel 9 job back? |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 4365
Reg: 07-2005
|
He has not lost his job. He has been stood down so he does not appear on air while they consider the flow of public feeling. They are an entertainment company, after all. |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1618
Reg: 08-2005
|
Probably about as long as Sam Newman was kicked off for doing what he did. |
Ben Dowdell
TryHard
SA
GT Limited V8
Posts: 157
Reg: 07-2005
|
Miles do you have a persecution complex or are you just on a moral crusade?
Not one person here has advocated rape or anything illegal yet you persist with this like they have and it is personal?! In every one of your posts you have ignored the facts and that in this instance nothing illegal has occurred.
Because of your assumptions outside of the facts presented in this case it would seem you feel the police have not done their job properly? you still feel that beyond this they the players have a case to answer! Is the legal system not good enough for you? Outside of the information we have been given from the media and away from your own prejudice against football players etc, what do you know that we don’t?
As i said, do you have a persecution complex or are you on a moral crusade? or is this another keyboard warrior session from you in which you want to bait people into an argument??
Thankfully people like you of which i referred in my original post are not trial, judge and jury.
I am confident from this Miles you will continue to argue, and since I am the one who has taken your bait I am sure your vitriol will be directed at me...even though I don’t wear a footy jumper.
Once again Miles I ask what your fight is about? However bare in mind, your arguments are ineffectual on me when you are so emotive and so resistant to facts as they are presented.
If you have information that could blow this case wide open then share it with us, no really share it with the media and the police. I am sure we would all like to see the situation handled appropriately by police and the court system. |
Ali Saeed
TryHard
WA
V8 Limited
Posts: 440
Reg: 09-2007
|
lol. |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2340
Reg: 03-2006
|
Oh no she did-nt! |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1619
Reg: 08-2005
|
Oh is the legal system now perfect and doesn't ever let anyone get away with anything? Nothing gets through the cracks, especially sexual assaults? Oh sh1t, I must have missed the memo.
Ben I think if you look back through this thread, it is not me who is on the crusade. It is you who have posted the big tirades. I believe most of my posts have been about 1 line long with no "vitriol". Where yours have averaged a lot larger with more furious typing involved. Don't really see that I've been confrontational with anyone? Served.
In fact my most "controversial" post was where I agreed with Aaron saying "noone really knows". On ya champ. |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2341
Reg: 03-2006
|
Miles Baker wrote on Monday, May 18, 2009 - 07:14 pm:where I agreed with Aaron saying "noone really knows".
The road to recovery is long, but my doctor says I am making good progress. See you all soon,
Love,
Aaron. |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1620
Reg: 08-2005
|
Still seeing a doctor about those delusions Aaron? Good work! |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 4368
Reg: 07-2005
|
My impression was somewhat different, Ben. It appeared to me that Miles was reminding people that the circumstances were such that the truth could lie either way. There has, after all, been a fair bit of "s1ut/gold-digger/she got what she deserved" here, all of which is equally unsubstantiated or simply irrelevant. You rightly point out that innocence is presumed. The woman is entitled to the same presumption of innocence as the men, whereas some writers seem to want to believe that the absence of a provable charge against the footballers makes the woman guilty of a crime herself.
As I pointed out, the fact no charges were laid does not mean no crime was committed. Perhaps we could express it in a couple of contrary old sayings:
- Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (i.e. a crime may have been committed without evidence available to support a charge).
- Lack of opposing evidence does not prove your conjecture (i.e. you can not assert a crime merely because it is not disproven).
I myself am more concerned about some of the attitudes to women expressed, as I have already discussed.
I noted an article at the weekend where a writer commented upon the extent of the homo-eroticism in the events of that night and similar gang bangs, it being a sexual display from one man to another rather than sex with a woman. For example, the two men reportedly rubbing their pricks on her face may as well have handled each other. Perhaps they do. |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1621
Reg: 08-2005
|
Good post DV. Also a noteworthy point is that the NZ police seemed to go out of their way to say "there was definitely no case to pursue against her for making a false statement".
Good points also about the behaviour being disturbing. I've known people with this mindset and the saying "treated like an object" really is proven by their behaviour, literally. They have absolutely no regard for the woman as a person, more an amusement park ride, or worse. That's fine if she's into that, but a lot of times it can happen without her realising until it's too late and that's just wrong. Guys that behave like that don't even consider that what they are doing is sexual assault because they aren't considering her to be a person at the time. Shocking but true, and I hate to think that supposed role models could possibly be promoting that? And no, I've never been into sexual situations with any other penises in the room. Not my bag. Whether she was lying or not in this case is not what bothers me here either.. it's the instant presumption by many that she was.
Ben, not sure why you seem to have a bone to pick with me here. Is it because you love football so much, or did I serve you up a whooping in another thread? Can't say I really remember your name is all. |
Ben Dowdell
TryHard
SA
GT Limited V8
Posts: 159
Reg: 07-2005
|
David
I understand your point and appreciate your arguments. I do not agree with you that Miles intention was one of balance to truth or facts and I stand by my interpretation. This is on display throughout the various posts made.
Miles:
LOL GFY, morally of course.
Your posts have been inflationary, initially reactionary with an inference to the football players being guilty because they have never impressed you.
‘ As far as I've heard this 19yo girl consented to sex with one guy maybe two.. then half the team barreled in and started waving their penises in her face, f**king her and carrying on. That's pretty close to a pack rape right there. And this "oh what did she expect" stuff flirts dangerously close to those "women are meat" comments by the mufti guy.
Pack rape? Women are meat, by the mufti guy? These comments are sensational, reactionary and inflationary. At this time 1 side of the story was known.
(Mike, are you still going to tell me that Miles was interested in where the truth lay?)
‘Now reports are surfacing that some of the other players got into the room through the bathroom window. Sounds consensual?’
It has since been stated by the owner of the hotel it is not possible for anyone to get in through the bathroom window. Again I do not see that Miles was unbiased with yet another inference to his disdain for football players.
Yeah, boy do I wish I got raped so I could make some bucks too.
Again who has been raped? It has been reported that the woman involved was bragging for 5 days about her sexual encounter and expressed no remorse to her friends and work colleagues.
Most sensible people deplore rape and any abuse against either men or women. I am one of those.
Miles has asserted his judgment and subsequent influence on the situation consistently so far throughout the thread. I think Miles has been very capable of stating exactly what his perception of the truth was.
In my initial posts I was very careful not to presume anything and only spoke of the facts at hand. This is a hugely sensitive issue on many levels. I stand by my initial post and they are my feelings for those concerned. I also stand my interpretation of Miles’ attitude and position on the matter.
Miles there is no chance you have ever whooped me in any way shape or form. This of course could be another of your persecution complexes. There is no bone to pick other than in this instance you have been ill-informed and in-articulate in your opinion. For a person to claim he has such high moral values and behavioural characteristic I am disappointed by the majority of your posts on what is a very sensitive and volatile topic. |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1623
Reg: 08-2005
|
Well. I stand corrected. Apparently I am the one on a crusade.
(ahem, how long did ya spend typing that one up)
Anyway am I supposed to be Mr Unbiased now or something?? Everyone else is allowed to have an *opinion* around here but me? Oh perhaps from now on I am supposed to just copy and paste the news here? Is black text ok or should I use beige?
People go out on a limb betting she's a s1ut or in it for the money or whatever.. and I'm not allowed to suggest (gulp) that football players have ever sexually assaulted someone?
Jesus Mr Keyboard, it's just a chat forum. People are allowed to type stuff. Don't get yourself so worked up over there. |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1624
Reg: 08-2005
|
I don't really care if you're disappointed in my posts or opinions or whatever. I don't put an ounce of consideration to your rating of me. I don't hold you as any kind of authority on morality, simply by the fact that you seem to be siding with a group of people who think this is "fun":
1. Pick up an impressionable, probably alcohol affected younger girl in a bar.
2. Minutes later, take her to a room/toilet cubicle.
3. Start a sexual act with her, then surprise! It's my mates!
4. Crowd around her and all commit strange sexual acts on her, maybe take some photos, laugh?, initimidate... anything you want you know, cos she's just a plaything.
Yep, fun fun. And morally good too. I would suggest that being involved in such an act, even assuming consent, is kind of messed up in the first place. I've certainly never wanted to do anything like that.
Not really what floats a normal person's boat. I'm also not into taking a piss/sh1t on people, wearing a nappy and getting spanked, or choking myself out with a plastic bag. All of those things are perfectly legal but not things I'd really consider very normal. |
Rob Andreacchio
Goo Roo
Victoria
I've sprouted horns!
Posts: 3272
Reg: 01-2005
|
Fetishes are more common that you think.... so according to your comments, a good percentage of the population are not normal....
Can we get back to the gang banging and orgy's with young ••••• now? BUNG! |
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone
Posts: 1626
Reg: 08-2005
|
I meant all three at the same time. How many people are into that? |
Anika Le
TryHard
SA
TT 1JZ-GTE
Posts: 185
Reg: 01-2009
|
Man, you guys love having D&M's. It's not often I see this!
Aaron Mead wrote on Monday, May 18, 2009 - 06:35 pm:Oh no she did-nt!
lmao as this reminded me of family guy!
As for this story, from my (girl's) perspective, even though I don't really know the full story (which I don't think anyone does), I don't condone for what they've done (whether it was consensual or not) but of all honesty - I don't believe her. Reading Karen's post, I totally agree with her 100%.
I've done Victimology where we study behavioural patterns of victims of crime and her actions do not represent one that has been raped/sexually assaulted. But like I said, we don't know the whole story but that's what I gather so far. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 4372
Reg: 07-2005
|
I discovered the other night that Phil Gould, a footie coach highly reputed in NRL circles and among fans, said this about it (I paraphrase necessarily but I am sure I have each of his key points):
quote:Regardless of whether there was consent or not, the moment others came into the room it was wrong, and it could never be right.
Seems to me not all footie people are thick as bricks  . He was saying that from there, behaviour would inevitably be degrading of the woman, so at that point consent ceased to be the issue compared with ethical treatment.
Anika, not disagreeing with what you say but in passing I hope also that the Victimology course at some point refers to Emile Zola's famous line from J'Accuse, "He had the look of a guilty man!". |
Ben Kelly
DieHard
Wentworthville
v8
Posts: 586
Reg: 08-2005
|
Guys, think about this. If i at the age of 19 was sexually used by a group of fit sporty women, i probably wouldnt be complaining. Would any of you? I might feel a bit cheap afterwards, but im sure a couple of beers with mates telling the story would fix it.
its a stupid debate. she probably felt bad afterwards but if you have the police and law to resolve the situation as they did, whats the point of getting all hot under the collar? its not like the law can somehow take into consideration the changing opinions of a young impressionable female, or male for that matter. morally wrong? maybe? but you cant legislate on taste. |
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32
Posts: 1415
Reg: 08-2005
|
What is it with "Footie' guys; do they attract or are they attracted to this behavior?
Do they take testosterone to be more aggressive players or is it the training/playing that winds them up for these post match shenanigans? |
Ben Kelly
DieHard
Wentworthville
v8
Posts: 587
Reg: 08-2005
|
Dave it seems that most footy guys arent too smart. i went to school with some. until they left. quite early as i remember. i dont think many of their young followers are too cluey either. i think its up to the managers, coaches etc to lead by example. after all these guys are in the public light and serve as role models to other youths. |
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual
Posts: 4376
Reg: 07-2005
|
You have the wrong idea about the joint event, Ben. Imagine you were with a team of netballers. At first things are worth a bit of bragging. Then things get slippery and next moment you get a dildo up the arse These athletic women can control you easily and it is repeated. Still feeling good about it, are you? You have just been degraded, whether you "consented" or not.
The problem with your thinking is that you imagine you retain effective control. What if you do not?
If you want to think about something from another person's point of view, it is first necessary to exit from your own assumptions. |
Previous
