Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 03:52 pm, by: Steven Anderson(Cusscuss)
Took the soarer to an LS1.com.au dyno day, got 147rwkw with intake and exhaust only.
Anyway, it really depends on what model commo you are taking on in the last 10 years the LS series has been going. A VTII LS1 came out stock with 225kw and back then weighed about the same as a soarer, so it would take much to go past a stocker VTII SS and as you go up the years, of course they get more power.
What really surprised me was the VE SSV's. They are getting a scary amount of power with mods. Intake, exhaust tune was getting about 280-290rwkw, Intake, exhaust, tune, cam was coming in at 320rwkw!. Thats an absolute •••••••• of power.
Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 01:22 am, by: Ali Saeed(Ali)
the TTv8 option would be less efficient than a single turbo, only because the cost and hassle of trying to fit it all under the bonnet, but one of the fellas here has done it, makin 212rwkw i think on low boost, stock compression and all
Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 09:59 am, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
Andrew, no one said a boosted V8 they just said 200rwkw . However i reckon A 200rwkw TT will run between 12.9 - 13.2 . I doubt a 200rwkw V8 even supercharged V8 would run anywhere near 13.6-14.0 .
Oh and to get 200rwkw from a TT might cost under $1500 ... I bet it would cost closer to $6000+ from a V8 .
But i gotta ask, is comparing a Forced induction 2.5L to a forced induction 4L still fair ? End of the day, the 2.5L punches well above its weight even compared to heavily modded and supercharged 4L combos .
Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 12:58 pm, by: Andrew Duaso(Andrewd)
daniel not doubting that a TT would be faster, just saying that i believe the V8 would have more Tq
and yeah boosted not na.... afaik there is no V8 Na soarers with anywhere near 200rwkw, which is very sad considering what a great engine they are they just seem to suck at making decent numbers at the treads... even many supercharged V8 soarers have quite low power considering... whats funny is i know of couple of magna 3.5 V6's making over 200fwkw n/a sure newer engine but less capacity and not dohc...
after many searches i've yet to find a na auto V8 run below a 15 1/4 i'd really like to get mine into a high 14 and i think it's possible
look at this guy, all bolt ons no internal or cam work BA XR6 n/a falcon 4spd auto very comparible to a soarer in terms of weight and power output yet even supercharged soarers struggle to get close
Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 07:03 pm, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
Benny G made 180ish rwkw and ran 14.8 i think with an auto soarer V8 .
An Na 1uz making 200rwkw would need Cams + Manifold + Ecu and injectors . It would have to rev harder to make the power, therefor torque down low would be sacrificed Callum . In fact its torque spread would probably be less than stock,( start later , not last as long, but would make more than stock, maybe ) although the power curve would last longer and peak higher .
If your saying the Blown V8 makes more torque, then it should be faster, as Torque is what gets you there ... Then it should be theoretically faster .
Monday, August 03, 2009 - 12:47 am, by: Andrew Duaso(Andrewd)
Wrong there mate 200fwkw
there used to be one with 217fwkw front wheel not fly wheel, but i believe the owner now lives in the UK both are manual though the auto's sap at least 15kw atw over the manuals...
the 200kw one wasnt a costly build..... but the owner used to work at MMAL and developed these things..... so when you can do it all on your own im sure that keeps the cost way down
Monday, August 03, 2009 - 01:28 am, by: Andrew Duaso(Andrewd)
lets get back to the falcon...
same capacity auto similar gearing to a V8 with TT diff similar weight, similar power yet with a histall slicks shift kit and same usual mods everyone has that dude has done a best of 13.7 @101mph
so if i did the same things to the soarer you'd think you'd get a similar result, but i doubt it...
stock for stock my soarer goes better than my girls parents BA 4spd auto fairmont (i've run them through the gtech)
Monday, August 03, 2009 - 06:27 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
Anything much over 200FWKW gets pretty unusable on the road without some very trick diff or smart traction control systems. Might be OK for the strip though?
Monday, August 03, 2009 - 07:36 am, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
Ali , i would love to know . I may contact my tuner and find out , but it would only be tractive effort on the dyno . Very hard to find out actual torque figures without an engine dyno .
Monday, August 03, 2009 - 01:47 pm, by: Steven Anderson(Cusscuss)
207frwkw out of an NA 3.5L is very very good, getting up around the 100hp/l mark.
Spend the same money on the 1u and you will have more than 200rwkw, thats for sure.
Dan, getting the torque is easy, just work backwards from the power.
Power = torque * RPM / 5252
so torque = power * 5252 / rpm
This will be in hp and lbft. The figure it will give is torque - drivetrain/dyno losses.
Peak torque can be found at the inflection point of the curve (i.e. where it starts decreasing curving upwards)
Id love to be able to get an ecu stuck on the v8 to see what the basic 3 mods properly can do, but it will have to wait for some more $$$ to become available.
Monday, August 03, 2009 - 03:46 pm, by: Andrew Duaso(Andrewd)
i once spent 5k on a hemi 265 that made about 130rwkw before i started, the guy was a valiant expert.... 5k later and all it could do was 105rwkw lol wtf but that was @ 3000rpm the cam was ment to mak peak power at 6250+rpm who knows what went wrong there.... but i decided to get it dyno tuned to see whats going on.... i got a call later that day ohh your cars making a noise.... yeah the noise an engine makes when no.2 rod goes through the bore and the piston dissapears into metal shavings lol thanks...
thats why im sticking to stock motor and bolt ons now, surely a mid-high 14 can come from a V8 soarer... im thinking full exhaust, TT diff shift kit, higher stall speed, bfi, ecu tune (unsure of what yet, leaning towards mafless or wolf replacment... dont know what else i've missed... but if that dosent get me a 14, im selling it and buying a stock aurion, lol
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 10:33 am, by: Steven Anderson(Cusscuss)
I dont think there is anything wrong, it is a gradual richening from 12 sliding down to 10.5 at redline, the factory ecu seems to always run rich. A few minutes of searching came up with these
Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 09:55 am, by: Brian Timms(Turbo_brian)
This is an interesting question, I had the 1JZ Soarer twin turbo, I have also had experience in the VX SS 5.7 litre commodore.
There is so much more power potential, and so much more initial and mid-torque in the 5.7 litre LS1 engine it hurts to even think about comparing them.
Also, bolt-on mods that they discuss are literally bolt-ons.
Here in Sydney, there is a company called Autotech Engineering, run by a greek dude that is pushing the V8 fords to 450RwKw with 'bolt on' tuned turbo kits, these are kits that literally bolt on, no stripping and upgrading of the engine internals is required.
Similar, the LS1 engine has bolt-on upgrades to take them to an easy 500kw at the black bags.
Cappa have Supercharging kits that bolt on, and then you change the injectors, exhaust, and tune the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) accordingly (they even have direct swap PCM's pre-tuned, so you can pick up the kit from cappa, drive home to your garage, and perform these changes in your own garage with the right tools, and drive it that afternoon). There is a supercharger kit that pushes the LS1 to 1000hp at the flywheel, about 850Kw at the fly, or about 700Kw at the blacks, but then you need to look at gearbox, clutch, diff upgrades because pushing that sort of power is crazy.
Do bare in mind though, this is still from an un-opened engine, just bold on a supercharger, intercooler, change the exhaust, change the injectors, and swap over the engine management computer and your done.
Having said that, I have also owned the RB30E and RB26DETT Nissan Skylines, both motors are essentially the same, with a few minor changes to the block for the RB26, and big changes to the heads and engine management systems, but you wont reliably drive an RB26DETT all day, every day with anything more than about 250Kw from it, the engine is not designed to do big Km's, it's designed to do big Horse Power for short bursts, remember, the RB26 was designed as a track car that met requirements for street-sale (to pass the pre-requisites for Group A touring cars).
As for the Soarer TT vs V8, I never drove the V8 version Soarer, so I cant comment here, but a 200kw TT vs a 200Kw V8, both weighing the same, both with same tyres, both with same transmission and gearing, both with same final drive, both in a straight line, I would go hands down on the V8, because it has more initial torque and take-off power, while the smaller engined TT is still coming on boost, the V8 has already hit it's peak torque and is off on it's way.
Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 11:28 am, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Steve I have tested piles of V8 soarers both before and after having ECU's rebuilt.
When they are running correctly, they do not run anywhere near that rich and I cannot possibly believe that given correctly running V8's don't run anywhere near that rich that it is considered normal or how the cars were tuned and intended to run from factory.
Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 12:08 pm, by: Andrew Duaso(Andrewd)
can i say after driving my mates missus G6E turbo, havent driven a tt soarer but have a commo 5.7etc...
man the G6E is so effortless, and flies for a stock luxo car it's very fast... yet so smooth.... did i say effortless..... you see tripple digits on the speedo in a matter of seconds and without even pushing the engine....
only negative point is that even on dry road the optional 19's really struggle for grip under acceleration and the tcl cuts in... needs an lsd... then more boost
g-teched it 0-100km/h in 5.1sec couldnt do better cos of wheelspin kept cutting out.... not bad for a stock auto barley run in family luxo sedan..
didnt like the ss ute i drove 6m 245kw and axle tramp... i hate wheel hop, should be banned lol
Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 03:18 pm, by: Bobby Green(Nash)
Street drags: xr6-t or blown ls1/ls2 unless the soarer has had some dollars spent on it.
Mountain runs: They are fairly similar, just make sure you have some good tyres and nice pads.
Don't even consider the v8 if you want speed. They are a really nice, quiet car. I'm looking at one for a daily as they are so cheap now. You'd have to spend a lot of money to get the v8 quick.
When I had the stock 1j I got raped by an xr6t and a ls1 GTO monaro at traffic lights. In the mountain though I felt my mate's SS ls2 commodore was quite evenly matched (wide corners and lots of straights, forget all of these cars if you want a car for real windy roads). After going 2j bottom end, I destroyed my mates ls2 GTS (auto) which had cam, exhaust and tune making similar power to me.
For $5k for a tt soarer and about $5k in basic mods to get it running 12's they are really nice street car. Go v8 if you want something more refined. LS1 commodores are quick with lots of potential, but I don't think you can get them as cheap as soarers, and the older ones look pretty horrible. Only raced a BA xr8 ute once when I was on standard 1jz and I had a car length pretty much the whole way to 200+.
Disclaimer: All of these events that took place in this post are fabricated, fictional and actually never happened. ;)
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