Soarer Central: Archive through November 29, 2009

Soarer Central Off-Topic Time for a bigger car... I think Archive through November 29, 2009

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Jose-Antonio Castillo
Goo Roo
NSW
Both Soarers

Posts: 1727
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 10:43 pm, by: Jose-Antonio Castillo (Ahh_soarer)

Hi guys,

Well the time has come. My fiance and I have a baby on the way (due in a month) and while trial fitting a babyseat in the Soarer it's a super tight fit. So unfortunately it looks like I need to sell off one of the Soarers to buy something bigger. At least I get to keep one of them I suppose (the missus cracked it when I tinkered the thought of selling off my 97 VVTi lol so it looks like my 91 V8 is the one that has to be sold). As much as I want to keep the car, it just doesn't seem feasible owning 2 Soarers right now.

I know that space is my/our main priority but it'd be nice to own something that I'll actually enjoy to drive around as well.

So my criteria would be the following:

Large enough to fit a rear-facing babyseat, plus all related bits and pieces (stroller, groceries etc.)
Enjoyable to drive
Something not needing a huge amount of modification nor repairs
Automatic, as the missus will need to be able to drive it around
Preferably under $30k

Ideally I'd want to buy a wagon of some form, but a largish sedan wouldn't be out of the question either.

I've narrowed my choices down to the following:

BP Subaru Liberty wagon/Forester: Preferably a later model, say 06~, and turbocharged, so either a GT/XT or GT Spec-B. Looks nice, has enough space; still have to suss out the reliability of them
M35 Nissan Stagea: Something different, usually loaded with goodies but looks strange
161 Lexus GS300: Gorgeous looking vehicle but very tempted to mod the crap out of it, most of the cheaper ones have a silly amount of kms on them
100 Toyota Chaser/Mark II Tourer V: Has to be a Tourer V, no exceptions; getting cheaper but seems a little narrow interior-wise
10/20 Lexus LS400: Nice, large but getting old
30/40 Toyota Camry Sportivo: Seems a sensible choice, but don't know if it's really an option, and they resemble my washing machine

So that's what I'm primarily looking at, but if any of you guys (especially the guys with newborns/toddlers) have any suggestions please post up your thoughts! Also if anyone has suggestions on babyseats that will fit comfortably in Soarers without the passenger seat having to be nearly all the way forward please post up too.

Cheers

Jose

Tim Ross
Goo Roo
Qld
1J + GT3582R (6+1>8)

Posts: 1415
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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 10:52 pm, by: Tim Ross (Retox)

Skip the Camry. You'll hate it

Considered a Toyota Caldina GTT?

Or a Mitsubishi Legnum?

As far as wagons go, Legnums have a stunning look to them. Might have to be patient to find a good one though

Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4954
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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 06:39 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

Do you guys not get the Toyota Altezza Gita 3.0 over there? Its basically Lexus IS300 wagon, RWD, 2JZ-GE VVTi, very nice to drive for a wagon, an engine you are familiar with, nice looking and plenty practical. Easy to get parts for here too, as there are loads of Altezza's and IS200/IS300's on the road.

They sell them over here for around $15,000 for an early 2000's model with moderate K's. Also if you get a post 2000 model it will have the ISO fix system in it, which makes putting the seat in much easier, and safer.

Baby seats are definitely difficult in a Soarer. Once they get to 8KG and you can move them into a toddler seat it gets a lot easier. Our toddler seat fits fine in my car, front or rear seat (as I don't have airbags to worry about) but the baby capsule was a real struggle.

Legnums are crap unless you go for the VR4 models. Totally gutless and just nasty interiors.

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 5702
Reg: 03-2006

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:22 am, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

I would be lookin into the Aurion mate . Plenty of room, no chance you will wanna mod it, and plenty of poke and torque to load up with the kids and boot space is plenty . Decent on fuel , and local parts all available , as well as reliable.

Mike Bradberry
Goo Roo
Queensland
V8 UnLimited

Posts: 1659
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 09:05 am, by: Mike Bradberry (Halflife)

Then there's always the V35 Skyline.

David Tra
Goo Roo
qld
TT

Posts: 1274
Reg: 11-2007

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 09:13 am, by: David Tra (Bookie)

Id go for the Camry. There is a reason why they are ever so popular.

Nina Smart
TryHard
QLD (Gold Coast)
SC400 & GT4 & NX

Posts: 125
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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 10:05 am, by: Nina Smart (050ara)

Aurions are great and can be modded (just have a look on the toyota owners site) front wheel drive but have great traction control (takes corners as good as the celica) and also around the $40g mark.

Always liked a subaru for a family car. But I'd prob go for the LS400.

Ryan Posselt
DieHard
NSW
Celsior V8

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 11:10 am, by: Ryan Posselt (Yakusaryan)

Hey jose,
i just stepped out of my crashed LS400/Celsior into a 2006 Liberty Wagon. I gotta say its a nice car. You'll be disappointed with the build quality and paint thickness but unless you can afford a new Lexus or euro luxo barge its just something you need to deal with.

The interior is good, sporty handling, great sound system and plenty of room Also 5 star safety (think of your family)

I've got the 3.0 RB which has bilstein suspension and is slightly lower, also comes with stock 18's. I paid $29,000 6 months ago with 87,000 on the clock. GT spec B is also nice though!

Its a nice car

I looked at all the options in your list but after owning an import I decided to stay away from them for the cheap parts/labor aspect.

Check out http://forum.liberty.asn.au/ for some good info on the Libertys.

Good luck let us know what you get
Upload

Joshua Rao
Goo Roo
WA
JZZ30 vvti GT-L, 94 TT manual (being wrecked), Legnum VR4

Posts: 1659
Reg: 09-2006

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 12:48 pm, by: Joshua Rao (Soaren1)

Legnum Legnum Legnum!

Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
4.0GT UZZ30

Posts: 4079
Reg: 11-2005

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 12:56 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

Aristo/GS300

Nice machine.

Or like what Matt suggested, IS300, Altezza with a 2JZGE, can get them in Sedan and Estate models.

Andrew Duaso
TryHard
Victoria
V8

Posts: 452
Reg: 02-2009

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 01:43 pm, by: Andrew Duaso (Andrewd)

i'd get an aurion

reliable, very economical, cheaper than most to insure

and farken fast... it will smoke most of the above list, but you wouldnt know it!

i have seen a totally stock aurion pull a 14.1 1/4 there is a trick to it though because the trac kills the power an you go nowhere

i thrashed one around tassie for a week and it was fantastic, excellent on the fuel, believe it or not it used the same amount of fuel per 100/km as the auto 1.4 getz the car rental place gave me untill i cracked it and pissed it off..

only thing i didnt like was the weak std sound system, it was ok but just not that great....

6mths later i went back to tassie did the same thing hoping for an aurion, i got a VE i was sadly disappointed, the VE was a complete ••••••• compared to the aurion... in every way billion dollars my arse

also consider a maxima, luxury reasonable performance too

i was considering rwd turbos etc... until i realised how old i am and it's time to grow up and drive responsibly and not do fishys on every u turn

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1196
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 02:42 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Aurion all the way, I am looking to change from a Pulsar to a bigger 4 dr sedan. I have decided at this point on an Aurion this will probably happen in the near future.

Fantastic cars compared to similar priced alternatives, drive really well great fuel economy much better than the new SID VE in real world conditions.

Ryan Posselt
DieHard
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 586
Reg: 08-2006

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 03:28 pm, by: Ryan Posselt (Yakusaryan)

I was very unimpressed with the handling of the Aurion when I test drove it - way to much power for the chasis/FWD

Andrew Duaso
TryHard
Victoria
V8

Posts: 453
Reg: 02-2009

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 03:49 pm, by: Andrew Duaso (Andrewd)

i think everyone who says that is programmed to drive rwd cars, the aurion was considerably quicker over the spaghetti roads around tassie, and especially reassuring over the wet roads in the dark..

you do drive fwd cars differently, much differently to rwd cars when pushing them real hard.... but the fact is 99% of drivers who drive normally, not a bunch of car nuts on a soarer website ;) wouldnt be able to tell which wheels were turning, unlike a VE you can hear the diff whining

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1197
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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 04:23 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Ryan Posselt wrote on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 03:28 pm:
I was very unimpressed with the handling of the Aurion when I test drove it - way to much power for the chasis/FWD

IMO that is complete rubbish and is a very stock standard response from someone who is either a poor driver (doesn't like to push to the limit and brake hard into corners) or has limited experience driving FWD cars.

Aussi's appear to be the only people in the world that are still stuck on the RWD V8 attitude.

The reasons I know this is the case is I used to think just like that about FWD cars and in particular about the bigger V6 FWD cars. After owning one for a period of time I very quickly learnt how wrong I was and how most people are very ignorant about this.

I don't mind FWD, RWD AWD I can drive all formats to there limit.

Something to think about BTC FWD RWD and AWD all matched power to weight and in the same race racing side by side.

FWD and RWD's qualify about the same with FWD being possibly a touch slower on average than RWD's. FWD's can go harder and deeper into corners which makes passing easier they often get to the front if a row or two back on the grid very quickly and win races over RWD's. There isn't a huge margin in it by any means are there is plenty of door to door racing but what I am pointing out FWD isn't a bad thing and they do handel well and in some areas they are better than RWD and in others not quite as good.

The down side, FWD's work there front tyres harder and towards the end of a meeting with limited tyre sets there tyres do start to go off more than the RWD and AWD cars.

AWD loose out due to the added drive line looses in dry conditions but they are far faster in wet conditions.

Either way each have there pros and cons and racing has proven that FWD cars can be balanced, handel well and get power to the ground.

Tim Ross
Goo Roo
Qld
1J + GT3582R (6+1>8)

Posts: 1418
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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 06:17 pm, by: Tim Ross (Retox)

Another +1 on the Maxima as well..

Old man has a TI Maxima as his company car. Beautiful thing to drive and the cvt in them is brilliant. Basically it has a detuned 350z motor in it so still no shortage of guts.

If you must have a rwd, then 4dr V35 Skylines are a nice buy and very cost effective.

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1201
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:17 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

The latest maxima's I wouldn't buy over an Aurion. But I would over the previous model camry the barge arse camry was not well balanced have very little steering feedback and wasn't a great package but the new Aurion is fantastic.

As to CVT it is probably the dumbest invention in the history of transmissions. After driving a few cars with CVT Honda and Mitsubishi I would not buy a car fitted with CVT.

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 5705
Reg: 03-2006

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 09:55 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

V35 skyline = 8 speed auto ..... Umm, no thanks !!!

Mike Bradberry
Goo Roo
Queensland
V8 UnLimited

Posts: 1662
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 10:17 pm, by: Mike Bradberry (Halflife)

Daniel, not all 4 door V35 Skylines have 8 speed paddle shifts. They came in 2.5l 5 speed auto, 3.0l 5 speed auto, 3.5l 8 speed auto 3.5l 5 speed auto, 3.5l 6 speed manual.

Jose-Antonio Castillo
Goo Roo
NSW
Both Soarers

Posts: 1728
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 10:41 pm, by: Jose-Antonio Castillo (Ahh_soarer)

Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately no Altezza Gita in Australia, along with everything else as well that we don't get

Hmm, I was eyeing an Aurion, might give one a test drive and see how they go.

Ryan Posselt wrote on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 11:10 am:
i just stepped out of my crashed LS400/Celsior into a 2006 Liberty Wagon. I gotta say its a nice car. You'll be disappointed with the build quality and paint thickness but unless you can afford a new Lexus or euro luxo barge its just something you need to deal with.

Hi mate, what are they reliability wise? In build wise do you mean compared to a Soarer or in general?

Tim Ross
Goo Roo
Qld
1J + GT3582R (6+1>8)

Posts: 1421
Reg: 09-2007

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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 12:03 am, by: Tim Ross (Retox)

Damian, I was referring to the previous model as well

Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4961
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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 08:01 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

Jose-Antonio Castillo wrote on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 10:41 pm:
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately no Altezza Gita in Australia, along with everything else as well that we don't get

What a shame! Here is a 2003 model anyway just to rub it in (sorry!) - the yard is asking 20K for it, but you would get it for a lot less than that...

Ryan Posselt
DieHard
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 589
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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 10:04 am, by: Ryan Posselt (Yakusaryan)

Celsiors are great you just need to prepare yourself to do bushes EVERYWHERE - Engine mounts, steering rack, Suspension. Air suspension can get leaky = $1K per corner.

its just the same story with all old imports but way more stuff to go wrong in a celsior.

I loved mine and think they are awesome cars ride quality is second to none!

But when you can spend 10K more and get a newer, safer, more reliable car.

DAMIEN: I agree with some of what you said eg FWD can be tuned to drive nicely and fast. However this just doesn't apply to the Aurion IMO I have driven light FWDs in the past (celicas) so I know how to drive them and I race so I definitely know how to drive. FWD's may have an advantage under brakes but will often understeer wide as the RWD/AWD's put down their power cleanly and get the spot back on exit. (that was the exciting part about the old ATCC lots of different ways to skin a cat - V8's is boring now!)

Something about the Aurion is just a bit off - it puts its power down badly. I torque steered something chronic when I test drove one. this is just my feelings - everyone drives differently and likes different things in cars thats just my opinion.

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1203
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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 10:40 am, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Ryan Posselt wrote on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 10:04 am:
DAMIEN: I agree with some of what you said eg FWD can be tuned to drive nicely and fast. However this just doesn't apply to the Aurion IMO I have driven light FWDs in the past (celicas) so I know how to drive them and I race so I definitely know how to drive. FWD's may have an advantage under brakes but will often understeer wide as the RWD/AWD's put down their power cleanly and get the spot back on exit. (that was the exciting part about the old ATCC lots of different ways to skin a cat - V8's is boring now!)

Something about the Aurion is just a bit off - it puts its power down badly. I torque steered something chronic when I test drove one. this is just my feelings - everyone drives differently and likes different things in cars thats just my opinion.

Aurion's have had two different tyres from factory and the factory fitted Dunlops are horrible it destroys the car.

I had the same tyres on the pulsar and it torque steered, was unstable and unpredictable, they were also very noisy.

I hated driving the Pulsar and I was about to get rid of it. After a number of wheel alignements in a last ditched effort I replaced the Dunlop tyres that were less than 50% warn with Michelin's the basic XM1's and wow the differnce was greater than I could believe, the car is now great and I really enjoy driving it.

The Aurion I have driven had Michelin's fitted which are the tyres I have on the pulsar now and as per above it has transformed the car compared with Dunlops tyres.

A saying comes to mind the world's best car with •••• tyres will not drive well, yet the worlds worst car with fantastic tyres might surpise you and drive ok.

As to racing this is not directed at you in any way but is an observation.

Half the guys I have seen at the track haven't got a clue and IMO are dangerous. They cant feel or control there vehicle and shouldn't be on the track, some of them are that bad they shouldn't be behind the wheel or a car.

The worst part is they think they can drive and they want to go fast.

Ryan Posselt
DieHard
NSW
Celsior V8

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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 12:06 pm, by: Ryan Posselt (Yakusaryan)

mmmm I race Karts (see www.nskc.com.au) 7th in the championship for clubman light and have beaten ex national champions too... results should speak for themselves somewhat.

Upload

I'm in front

Fair enough about the tyres the one I drove was from a dealer so it probably had the standard spec Dunlops. With the right tyres it could be okay :-)

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1204
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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 01:12 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Ryan Posselt wrote on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 12:06 pm:
mmmm I race Karts (see www.nskc.com.au) 7th in the championship for clubman light and have beaten ex national champions too... results should speak for themselves somewhat

As I said I wasn't refering to your abilities specifically just a general statement about quite a large % of track goers that I have seen in recent time.

Perhaps given your experience you can comment on the situation in NSW.

As to the right tyres I wouldn't put it that way at all, I would say those Dunlop tyres are horrible and most regular tyres apart from the currently available Dunlops would be fine.

My parents Civic was fitted with the same crap Dunlop tyres and they also experienced them as being horrible noisy ect and they repalced them well before they were warn out, with Bridgestones that were the same price brand new as Dunlops and it has massively improved the handeling feel and ride.

Ryan Posselt
DieHard
NSW
Celsior V8

Posts: 592
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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 01:29 pm, by: Ryan Posselt (Yakusaryan)

A fair statement Damien there are a bunch of W*nkers that race cars that have got no idea what they're doing.... so fair enough

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 01:39 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Sorry Ryan but I want to clear that up, this is something that in recent times has become a much bigger problem at local tracks.

8 years ago there was the odd one or two guys that couldn't drive from what I see now it is about 30% or so of of them.

Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
96 JZZ30 (TT)

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Friday, November 27, 2009 - 02:11 pm, by: Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk)

Guys, I don't think superior handling is one of Jose's requirements so there's not much point arguing about which car handles better, etc.

Jose, I have both the Aurion and Camry in the family, and having driven both of them I have to say the Aurion is a much better car. The Camry is a nice car and all, but there's squat all power compared to the Aurion. I remember hitting 120KM on the freeway from ACT to NSW without even realising it. The thing is surprisingly quick.

Shoot me a PM if you want more info.

Paul Knox
Tinkerer
QLD
uzz31's manual and auto

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Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 02:25 pm, by: Paul Knox (Surreal)

Damian Ware wrote on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 01:39 pm:
8 years ago there was the odd one or two guys that couldn't drive from what I see now it is about 30% or so of of them.